Cracker: Wallywood
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Yes, I made the mistake of going into philosophy thinking I could find the answers. Instead, all I got was more questions. Good questions, but.
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I know a lot about art but I don't know what I like.
I hope that helps. -
Although perhaps the key difference is that the fascists wouldn't allow the debate to take place.
And they’d be wrong to do so? You seem to be saying that it is objectively true that the fascists are wrong
I hope it doesn't sound like I'm taking the piss. I'm really pleased you remember what I did there. It was a good gig but sadly I had a whole bunch of reasons for going.
Did you review 12 Monkeys while at the listener? If so, I remember that. It was of those reviews I read and thought: ”this helps me understand why I liked that film.” (If that wasn’t you – oops.)
Argument and conversation are what allow us to assign value to things, I dare say intersubjectively (I hope Danyl was sitting down just then), which is not the same as objectively.
So “intersubjectively” is not the same as “subjectively”. So what is the difference?:
- Is it: that people’s subjective views become more valuable as they become part of a consensus? Because I find that troubling, somehow. Or is it:
- People can apprehend that there are truths that hold beyond their personal values. If so, how is that not just ‘objectively”?(if humanity was suddenly annihilated, the frescoes of the Sistine Chapel would immediately cease to have any formal and aesthetic characteristics).
The Sistine Chapel would have exactly the same formal characteristics it has now. Are you saying those characteristics would not exist if there was no one around to perceive them? (If a tree falls in woods with no one around...) I doubt you really think that, though.
So sure, he's going to be able to tell you what the best car for a drag race is. But in a few years time he may not be all that interested in drag racing.
But he can still tell you which is the best car for drag racing.
In my defence, I think that pointing out that debate has stagnated to cheerleading is also worth doing sometimes. Perhaps people hadn't noticed.
Fair enough. I think something to keep in mind is that individual posters don’t always feel as if they’re repeating a point just because someone else has already said something similar about a given topic. Also, there was plenty of repetition on the “pro” responses, too, and it’s not like you were critical of both sides. Consider Matthew and Damian’s earlier comments suggesting, yet again, that we should just not take it so seriously, ya know?
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Although perhaps the key difference is that the fascists wouldn't allow the debate to take place.
And they’d be wrong to do so? You seem to be saying that it is objectively true that the fascists are wrong
No. Clearly it's a subjective value that Fascism = bad (mmmkay?).
But as a society we did arrive at that subjective value by consensus, by way of vigourous debate and large-scale field-testing in the mid-20th Century.
But he can still tell you which is the best car for drag racing.
At the time he was interested in drag racing, yes. Not sure I'm understanding your point.
And drag racing as a sport is divided into many different classes - different engine sizes, different fuels, factory builds, street builds, pre-date-X, post-date-X, etc.
So the 'best car for drag racing' is also contextually dependent.
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Oh, and we've already agreed on a definition of 'drag racing' - what/who can do the standing quarter-mile fastest? Which is also a consensual definition.
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ubjective value that Fascism = bad (mmmkay?).
But as a society we did arrive at that subjective value by consensus, by way of vigourous debate and large-scale field-testing in the mid-20th Century.
Tangentially, It was mentioned twice on Emma's thread that New Zealanders need to produce identification to buy panadol and cough medicine. I would subjectively deem that fascist. obviously it wouldn't fit the more specific consensual definition of fascism, but there is always that Orwellian query - "now we have established consensus, ie. that Nazi style facism=fascism=bad,- is it constant?"
To achieve this consensus, a specificity of the definition of fascism was required, which ultimately came to lend the powers that be the freedom to move the defining goal posts, and freely redefine what is "nonfascist." incorporating as many individual elements of fascism into democracy, relying on the original consensus of what fascism is/was, to duck the charge of fascism. But it's an unfair exchange in that while democracy has assimilated many features of fascism it has not maintained balance by applying democratic attributes to the definition of fascism. It's an unfair exchange. Hence relatively speaking fascism is a shrinking quantity.
Post consensual reference to consensus can take on a form akin to fascism.
Tellingly, the absence of females (excluding Islander) involved in this discussion, acutely contextualizes the abstractions being dealt to with saws and cars, in real world terms.
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<pendant>
It was mentioned twice on Emma's thread that New Zealanders need to produce identification to buy panadol and cough medicine
Islander said
Gun licence, and wanting Panadol.In good ol' Oamaru. Nobody twitched (despite the maniac pyschopath look.)
And the reason "Nobody twitched" is because you don't need ID to purchase panadol or cough medicine.
</pendant> -
Steve Barnes - tried to buy Panadol in an Oamaru pharmacy lately?
(You also have to sign the receipt.)
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I'd still hesitate to call Oamaru pharmacies a hotbed of fascism, but I guess that's just me.
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Relative to Wellington pharmacies, certainly the bed could do with a couple of extra blankets.
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They're both sweeties - both Oamaru Pharmacy & te UFS Pharmacy (my late & much lamented Uncle Raynee, who had been head of the Friendly societies inc. preferred us to go there)- BUT - te gummint has required this stuff for some time.
There is a sadly high number of addicts - alcohol/E/other- within North Otago. They're useless wee shits - but - and seriously - what can you do with them?
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<pendant> ;-)
From Glaxo Smith Klien's website
The following products are available from supermarkets, pharmacies and convenience stores:
Panadol Cold & Flu Hot Lemon
Panadol Cold & Flu MAX Hot Lemon
Panadol Cold & Flu MAX + Decongestant
Panadol Sinus Relief PE
Panadol Cold & Flu Max + Decongestant CapletsThe following products are available from pharmacies only:
Panadol Cold & Flu Relief PE
Panadol Flu Strength Day & Night PEWere you trying to buy Panadol Cold & Flu Relief PE or maybe Panadine (contains Codine)?
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Addendumdedum
The PE in Panadol Cold & Flu Relief PE stands for Pseudo Ephedrine which, apparently, is used for making Pea Soup or something. -
Mmmmhhh... pea soup.
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Full Strength Panadol- that's what it says on the packet.
Panadine is also pharmacy-only but has side effects (think constipation.) -
I've just cooked a Saag Paneer between posts. Is that a record?.
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In 11 minutes? Crikey, it might be. I love saag paneer. What's your 11-minute recipe for it?
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And, whine, where do we get the ingredients aside from the paneer?
(Place near heremakethpaneer-) -
Saag Paneer Recipe courtesy Tyler Florence.
And lots of PE
(i jest, of course)
I admit I didn't make my own ghee but I did do the spices while cooking the spinach and onions while the rice was going through the absorption method of cooking rice.
I had to sign an explosives document when buying the chillies.
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And, whine, where do we get the ingredients aside from the paneer?
The place formerly known as The Khyber Spice Invader, in Sandringhamstan. It is owned by a wonderful man who always say's "Thank you, please come again" Honest.
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ohhh, I bet he doesnt do email orders?
Or, does he?
I do make ghee when the occaision orders it - and we have a local (Harihari) person who makes goat paneer (I'm a buyer.)Only sign an explosives document to chillies? You lucky bugger. I had to be fingerprinted and cavity searched just to get in my last hoard of Scotch Bonnets...
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Speaking of Scotch. We just got some miniatures of Laphroiag sent over from Islay, bastards at MAF charged us $22 for opening one of the four envelopes... it had Sacha's name on it whooooooo, just because he is not paranoid it don't mean they're not out to get him.
ohhh, I bet he doesnt do email orders?
That was a hint?... it's on its way, apparently.
;-)p.s.
I had to be fingerprinted and cavity searched just to get in my last hoard of Scotch Bonnets...
Now that would really make the eyes water...
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Well, somebody's eh? :)))
All I can say about some aspects of border control (how can any of 'em be alllowed to *touch* The Frog?) is - it's profoundly erratic-
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And, o dears no! It wasnt a hint-
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Barnes, I'll be over for my royalty presently..
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