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Speaker: The economics of shit speech

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  • David Cormack,

    Their political reckons are so fucking bad

    I'm trying.

    Suburbia, Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 218 posts Report Reply

  • Simon Armstrong,

    Nice read Joshua. Reminded me of Brian Priestley (with a dollop of Jim Lahey).

    New Zealand • Since Jan 2015 • 39 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen, in reply to John Small,

    Bart, are you saying that you won’t buy access to a bundle of great journalists because you’d prefer separate contracts for each of them?

    No I'm saying I don't want to pay the demonstrably evil pimp based of his promise that he'll keep paying those working journalists (yeah right).

    You know if they had like a collective that I could pay without involving the pimp then I'd be keen.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4450 posts Report Reply

  • Simon Armstrong,

    Interesting article on Wired reflecting on their experience of pay walling one year later. When they did it took me months to train my muscle memory to not visit them during daily browse and I expect same hardship with NZH. Totally worth it as their respect for analytics and crass consumption (far more offensive than any alt right ideology) confirms I did the right thing relocating them to the fond memory department in my brain.

    https://www.wired.com/story/wired-paywall-one-year-later/

    New Zealand • Since Jan 2015 • 39 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to David Cormack,

    I’m trying.

    I know, but you are one column and Young and Trevett publish multiples of trash on their own.

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2929 posts Report Reply

  • andin,

    Bullshit artist’s usually come well heeled and as its from an Aussie source let me just add 'No surprises there’
    If your quoting from a wealthy person (usually WCM’s) there’s a very strong probability its going to be spin, playing fast and loose with everything not in their interest to promote. Just sayin’

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1881 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __,

    Excellent article here with the excellent news that The Guardian is making a profit without a paywall. One of their big things is soliciting donations from readers:

    Remember that people’s financial relationship with a publication isn’t purely transactional. “You write stories I want to read, I give you money” is one way to view the paid-reader relationship. But so are “I like what you stand for, I give you money,” “I want others to be able to read your stories, I give you money,” and “I want to be the sort of person who supports you, I give you money.” With a functionally infinite supply of free news available, the relationship your reader has to you has to be a lot more like the one public radio listeners have with their favorite station. They’re not buying access; they’re supporting a cause.

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3887 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Young,

    Leighton Smith? The New Zealand Herald defines **Leighton Smith** as 'premium content'??!! Dream on. Personally, I'm glad the superannuated ignorant right-wing fossil is now behind a paywall. But pay for *that???* Dream on, Granny. Is he featured in the newspaper version, BTW?:

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12227499

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 559 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Hooton,

    In between your ranty bits, you make some good points about media economics. But your definition of “shit speak” largely seems to be “things I don’t agree with or don’t think are brainy enough” and that is sinister and dangerous.

    Auckland • Since Aug 2007 • 194 posts Report Reply

  • linger, in reply to Matthew Hooton,

    Yeah, nah.
    For any individual column, the definition has to rely at least partially on the reader's (perhaps unreliable) assessment of the columnist's intent, because we need to know the relationship between the columnist's expressed opinions and the facts available to the columnist. If there is no necessary relationship, or if the opinions expressed are directly counter to known facts, the columnist is either bullshitting (if they don't care either way) or willfully misleading. Either could, and should, be called "shit speech", in the absence of some other signalled intent (such as satire).

    But if the columnist is explicitly advocating hatred of or violence towards some sector of society (e.g. cyclists), then "shit speech" is in fact an undeservedly generous label.

    And consistent patterns across the same person's columns, or even more generally across many different columnists hosted by the same media provider in the hope of achieving some institutional gain, are much easier to assess.

    Tokyo • Since Apr 2007 • 1886 posts Report Reply

  • andin, in reply to Matthew Hooton,

    sinister and dangerous

    Forgive me for wanting a bit more specificity around your generalization.
    But I fail to see how suggesting that articles that require some working knowledge of the science specifically climate change should have some intellectual rigor, or at least an understanding of the topic rather than ones own reckons or quotes from obvious crackpots or outliers, is sinister and dangerous
    If were you not including that subject, could you please note that exception.

    And easy on the scare quotes eh!

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1881 posts Report Reply

  • Pete Sime, in reply to Moz,

    They might grant free subscriptions to all libraries around the world, but it has to be implemented in a useful way.

    This is already being done, but it seems that libraries aren’t so great at promoting it. There’s a service a lot of libraries in NZ subscribe to called Press Reader, which offers digital access to electronic copies of newspapers and magazines. You can use it from home on your computer or download an app to your phone or tablet.

    It has all the metropolitan NZ newspapers - no NBR, though - on it, plus magazines like the Listener, North and South, Metro, House and Garden, Cuisine. You can read the Washington Post, The Guardian – over 3,000 English language titles, 124 from NZ.

    Dunedin • Since Apr 2008 • 167 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Pete Sime,

    is it free to use?

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19667 posts Report Reply

  • Pete Sime, in reply to Sacha,

    Yes. I see you’re in Auckland, so the details for you are at https://www.aucklandlibraries.govt.nz/Pages/enewspapers.aspx

    Dunedin • Since Apr 2008 • 167 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace,

    Wellington City Libraries has a similar free service called Gateway. You can access it from home so not affected by the current closure of the main library.

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3196 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Pete Sime,

    Thank you. That is certainly a better deal than the Harold is offering.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19667 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7881 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Sacha,

    a better deal than the Harold is offering.

    Hell they want to charge people to read a story on Shayne Carter’s book Dead people I have known and they can’t even be arsed getting the name of his band right!

    Multi-awardwinning Kiwi rocker Shayne Carter, who has been in handful of bands including the Straightjacket Fits and Dimmer, has written a new book about his life in music, Dead People I have Known. ….

    Obviously one isn’t paying for editorial rigour!

    PS: The ODT didn't fare much better in the Band Name spelling stakes either getting it wrong at least once in the story - and I think Shayne even wrote for them at one stage!

    How The DoubleHappys became Straightjacket Fits after the death of band member and friend Wayne Elsey. Struggles to craft songs while surviving on the poverty line. Partnerships, and run-ins, with other bands.

    Oh to live in a world where reporters got Straitjacket Fits and Martin Phillipps' names right every time...

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7881 posts Report Reply

  • Alfie,

    Excellent piece Joshua.

    I've been phasing myself off The Herald for a while now. There was a point when it was one of my go-to morning sites for local news, back before the editorial direction threw a screaming right and veered off towards Dailymailsville.

    The Herald's policy of amplifying the uninformed ramblings of a small bombast of right wing pundits may "engage" users, but it deserves our distain. You can't save journalism by passing off garbage as opinion.

    I will miss a few of the serious journalists like Nippert and Fisher, and I'll see how that goes over time. But I could never contribute to any media company which continues to publish reguritated brain farts from the likes of the Hoskings and the Sopers. I just couldn't.

    Dunedin • Since May 2014 • 1377 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Alfie,

    But I could never contribute to any media company which continues to publish regurgitated brain farts from the likes of the Hoskings and the Sopers. I just couldn’t

    But, but, how else will you keep up with the 'social morays'?

    PS while the Herald is indeed a stained and disgraceful journal, I feel disdain is what's required...
    ;- )

    (Sorry to bring the Pedant Patrol down, it's a personal bugbear...)

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7881 posts Report Reply

  • linger, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    disdain

    ...or alternatively, after having read it, you feel the need to de-stain ...

    Tokyo • Since Apr 2007 • 1886 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to linger,

    what, dis stain?

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19667 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    But, but, how else will you keep up with the ‘social morays’?

    I'm sure eel manage it somehow.

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2929 posts Report Reply

  • Moz, in reply to Sacha,

    dis stain?

    Nah, dat stain.

    Sydney, West Island • Since Nov 2006 • 1193 posts Report Reply

  • Moz,

    The guys replacing my roof managed to come up with a great one the other day: “open ya brain”. Sadly most of their discussion is not up to that level.

    I do love a good band name, especially the hard-to-write ones. Why Shayne didn’t ever do a solo performance as the Singlehappy is beyond me. And I still reflexively put LBGPEP2 when asked my favourite album. Wired is another band who have a way with the album names, IBTABA for example, and of course 12XU. And who could ever forget Wreck Small Speakers on Expensive Stereos? A certain type of person had to buy the record purely because of the name...

    Sydney, West Island • Since Nov 2006 • 1193 posts Report Reply

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