Up Front by Emma Hart

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Up Front: Stand for... Something

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  • Ian Dalziel,

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    Ponga rocks!!
    Three full fern fronds and a baby frond unfurling
    or four Cyathea dealbata leaves.

    Though that Trade & Enterprise swipe is a tad botanically inaccurate, and looks a bit chunky.

    But what better symbol for a nation being steadily taken over by money-traders and body-snatchers, than a plant that reproduces by spore…

    …and let’s not forget that those groovy fern koru are also known as ‘fiddleheads’ something to appeal to English and Joyce…
    - much ado about nothing with fractal to show for it?

    With fronds like this who needs enemas?

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7944 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to chris,

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    North Otago landscape no 2 by Colin McCahon

    I am put in mind of a section of rugby jersey...
    Noooooooooooooo......

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7944 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

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    which naturally leads to this...

    ...why not just use a barcode or QR code for a flag?
    it'd be very modern... post-modern even...

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7944 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    It’s looks like the red white and blue with – it’s ether a fern or it’s a white feather, depending on your knowledge of New Zealand. The white feather has a very significant symbolic meaning, that has nothing to do with playing games.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4414 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to steven crawford,

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    he's so vane...

    The white feather has a very significant symbolic meaning, that has nothing to do with playing games.

    Not Jeff Noon's 'Yellow Feather' from Vurt then?

    I see the NZ white feather is about pacifism

    In the 1870s, the Māori prophet of passive resistance Te Whiti o Rongomai promoted the wearing of white feathers by his followers at Parihaka.

    Not the message John Key is trying to unconsciously send, methinks...

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7944 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen, in reply to Russell Brown,

    This process is off the rails.

    Last step in the process was National party caucus making the decision.

    Hence we have a crappy business logo in National party colours.

    Precisely what was intended in the first place.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4460 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

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    This one?

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

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    Or this. Notice how the QR pixels form the shape of NZ, sort of, if you squint a bit.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    Three white feathers. Gandhi was aware of New Zealand for that. I learned this juring an exhibition opening from the Chathams, at Pataka. They served weka. Yuck!
    The single white feather has a different meaning.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4414 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    North Otago landscape no 2 by Colin McCahon

    I am put in mind of a section of rugby jersey...
    Noooooooooooooo......

    You might recall the Carl Barks tale where Donald Duck and his nephews accompany Uncle Scrooge to Scotland in search of the McDuck tartan. They find it in the studio of a "modern artist" who blows up and copies details of the fabric to produce Mondrian-like paintings. Naturally he gets exposed as a fraud.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4593 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Joe Wylie,

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    the McDuck tartan

    of course ducks were very early web adopters...

    ...and here is the Dalziel tartan (above)

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7944 posts Report Reply

  • Katharine Moody, in reply to Russell Brown,

    This process is off the rails.

    And it is recognised that the black and white fern logo is trademarked;

    Former Black Caps captain Stephen Fleming chose the black and white stylised fern as his favourite. That design includes a fern which is trademarked and used as a logo by Government groups.

    Change the Flag spokesman Lewis Holden said the use of it as a logo might damage its chances although the maple leaf design on Canada's flag was a biscuit tin logo.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11506413

    What? It would be good if the panel explained the implication of that. Why pick one design that is somehow disadvantaged over others?

    Wellington • Since Sep 2014 • 798 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    The vertical line one is the clear winner out of the two. It is familia to me, it makes me thing about the economy, and I’m in a mood for change. It ticks all the boxes.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4414 posts Report Reply

  • Katharine Moody,

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    And if we were going for a best logo/stylised design of a silver fern this one would be my pick.

    http://www.nzflag.com/example.cfm

    Wellington • Since Sep 2014 • 798 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Katharine Moody,

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    …this one would be my pick.

    is it a fluke it looks a bit like a Trematode ?
    or a spearhead…
    :- )

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7944 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to Russell Brown,

    The flag consideration panel published this excellent video from the Designers Institute, explaining the principles of flag design, a couple of months ago.

    And then apparently ignored nearly all those principles. This process is off the rails.

    It's ringing as hollow as the decision made over the Wellywood sign.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5430 posts Report Reply

  • Alfie,

    Gregor Macaulay knows his flags. He's the editor of the NZ Heraldry Society's magazine and he designed the Otago flag in 2004. He dismisses all four of the proposed options as ''underwhelming'' and ''more complicated than is necessary''.

    Dr Bryce Edwards is also quoted in the ODT story.

    "The flags aren't likely to be terribly controversial ... but by the same token, they're not particularly exciting or groundbreaking,'' he said.

    ''They're more likely to be controversial because they're a bit bland.''

    Dr Edwards said the blandness of the flags was a problem, because the flag referendum process was, by nature, a nationalistic one.

    If no one was excited about it, it would fall flat, he said.

    Is anyone at all excited by the four designs, apart from John Key and the flag design panel?

    Dunedin • Since May 2014 • 1436 posts Report Reply

  • Alfie,

    There's a good piece in the Herald from Grant McLachlan. He's a former Parliamentary researcher and surprisingly, given the context, a National Party campaign director. The first para tells you exactly where he's coming from.

    New Zealand Idol should never have been used as a template for the Flag Consideration Panel.

    He goes on to list numerous conflicts of interest in Key's flag debacle, including a few I wasn't previously aware of. What a corrupt, expensive, badly-handled vanity project this has turned out to be.

    Dunedin • Since May 2014 • 1436 posts Report Reply

  • chris, in reply to Alfie,

    That's righteous, thanks for posting it Alfie.

    Mawkland • Since Jan 2010 • 1302 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    This one?

    That's evil man. 666 is in there, plain to see if you're a computer.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10653 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    LOL, nice, dude. That's a better message. Sadly, our prime minister employs IT people so it wouldn't slip through the cracks.

    I can't see the NZ, though. I see a silver fern.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10653 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to Alfie,

    There’s a good piece in the Herald from Grant McLachlan. He’s a former Parliamentary researcher and surprisingly, given the context, a National Party campaign director.

    That's the bugger. I recommend reading that one.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4414 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to steven crawford,

    loose skids on show runner...

    I recommend reading that one.

    The link to the article about Julie Christie's conflicts of interest (as a member of the Flag Selection Panel) was interesting too - who knew that she 'borrowed' the name for TV3's new 7pm show from the NZ Trade & Enterprises 'Fern Mark' (not Weldon) trust she is on - New Zealand Story'

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7944 posts Report Reply

  • chris,

    I’m not sure which thread to put this in, it’s a bit rugby but it’s also kind of flag:

    There’s a reason why Richie McCaw, Conrad Smith and all these [All Blacks] have come out and said change the flag – everywhere they go in the world people wave their [own] flags. We don’t do that,” he said.

    TPPA? Or perhaps we need a thread dedicated to the shit this guy talks…

    He said the secrecy around negotiations was not something to be worried about, given that was how all Free Trade Agreements came about

    Key used an example of selling a house worth $600,000 for $500,000 and telling the media.

    “Are you really telling me you would go to the paper and say ‘for sale, one house – $600,000, wink-wink, nudge-nudge if you offer me $500,000 I’ll take it’?

    “No one does that."


    Auckland property has $1 reserve


    Home with $1 reserve sells for $605,000

    Analogies? The real estate industry? I no longer have confidence that our Prime Minister understands how either of these things work. He’s unquestionably way behind at to the goings on in the Auckland Housing bubble. Are there writers who fashion this stuff for him to mindlessly regurgitate or is he coming up with it himself?

    Mawkland • Since Jan 2010 • 1302 posts Report Reply

  • Alfie,

    Another day, another poll. This time it's from 3News / Reid Research and involved 1,000 people. Having seen the government's final four choices, a huge 69% want to keep the current flag. Only 25% want a flag change and 6% just don't know. The poll ran September 8 - 16, margin of error +/- 3.1%.

    As it doesn't suit his narrative, John Key has naturally dismissed the result out of hand.

    This morning Prime Minister John Key dismissed the poll as "not terribly sophisticated", and urged supporters not to give up on the idea of a new flag.

    "With the greatest respect, it's not a terribly sophisticated question because I could produce polls that look close enough to that, when it's a yes or no question," he told TV3's Paul Henry this morning.

    And pigs might fly, sir.

    Dunedin • Since May 2014 • 1436 posts Report Reply

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