Up Front by Emma Hart

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Up Front: Stand for... Something

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  • Alfie, in reply to Lucy Telfar Barnard,

    Or it shows that these days people don't engage with an issue by attending physical meetings.

    While that's the official line, I suspect Kim Dotcom's Dirty Politics meeting which overflowed the Auckland town hall kinda puts the kibosh on that theory, Lucy. In my experience, public meetings attract an audience when people are interested.

    Dunedin • Since May 2014 • 1440 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    the flag poll

    All Blacks captain Richie McCaw has thrown his support behind the Prime Minister for a flag change.
    Four new flag designs to be pitted against the country's current flag have been chosen and will be revealed on Tuesday. (Today)

    Well that's a done deal then...
    ...what I don't get is why they bothered printing and delivering all those sheets with 40 flags on, we weren't being polled on those - coupla paper ads, sure, so people can have a look, a web site, definitely!
    But why the millions of extra bits of paper printed for no good reason?

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7953 posts Report Reply

  • chris, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    I think Rich McCaw put it best himself:

    "Someone said to me, and probably quite right, you end up going from most people enjoying what you do to probably half the country. So you cut your supporters in half. That’s probably not a good idea."

    …. Probably not.

    Mawkland • Since Jan 2010 • 1302 posts Report Reply

  • Alfie,

    Tracy Watkins sums up the public apathy towards Key's flag diversion.

    With the flag referendum costing $26 million, the last thing he wants on his hands is a flop, a debate remembered more for running gags about some of the more infamous designs, like laser Kiwi, the "boom" flag and sheep in various poses.

    It's not just that he will have failed in his bid to change the flag - it's that the result will also be viewed as a referendum on him and his Government.

    If only that were true.

    Dunedin • Since May 2014 • 1440 posts Report Reply

  • chris,

    Attachment

    $26,000,000.00

    Mawkland • Since Jan 2010 • 1302 posts Report Reply

  • simon g,

    I'm afraid they've stuffed it up.

    The top one had to be included, not because I like it, but because the silver fern should be an option. Nos 2 and 4 are committee jobs, which leaves the third. But it's black. So, no.

    None of them can match the Maori flag, but then we'd be talking politics and having a meaningful discussion, oo er!

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1333 posts Report Reply

  • Alfie, in reply to chris,

    $26,000,000.00

    I'm underwhelmed. Bastardisations of the classic silver fern, two with overlaid nods to colonialism, and a plagiarised variant of the Hundertwasser flag. What a gross waste of public money.

    Dunedin • Since May 2014 • 1440 posts Report Reply

  • simon g,

    Unfortunately we're now going to move from (relatively) positive engagement to negative.

    When there was a blank sheet, with our options limited only by imagination, naturally people had plenty to say, seriously or not. But that's over now, we can't colour in any more flags, or even tweak the ones we've got. It's no good me saying "Yeah, I don't mind number 3 except ... ". There is no "except".

    That was the panel's job, on our behalf, and they failed. Did nobody say "Minimum requirement: 4 distinct options"? If they did, they were outvoted by fools.

    Six months to go.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1333 posts Report Reply

  • chris, in reply to Alfie,

    I’m underwhelmed.

    I naively assumed they would keep at least one Gordon Walter’s inspired option, or anything at all for those who might wish to vote for something recognizably referencing New Zealand’s rich visual arts tradition.

    Mawkland • Since Jan 2010 • 1302 posts Report Reply

  • Katharine Moody,

    I'm following NZ First's recommendation;

    https://nz.news.yahoo.com/top-stories/a/29259114/spoil-ballot-papers-peters-urges-voters/

    I'd be absolutely delighted if the spoiled votes outweighed any vote for a single alternate design.

    That would send the best message ever to John Key.

    Wellington • Since Sep 2014 • 798 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    One of these flags has its own Twitter account already. Which, by the reasoning of the original blog, makes it the winner. And also, unfortunately, least likely to win the vote.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4651 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to simon g,

    Nos 2 and 4 are committee jobs

    All of them look ‘designed by committee’. The koru is the least worst option if a no-confidence vote is unavailable. Or even the spoiled ballot as mentioned above.

    The flag design selection carries the whiff of the Wellywood sign controversy, where a lot of neat designs were passed over by the 'judging panel' in favour of a contrived knockoff of a Los Angeles icon.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5445 posts Report Reply

  • chris, in reply to ,

    Personally I don’t think the flag needs to be changed at this time, but if I’d staked my reputation on campaigning change for change’s sake and was prepared to offer a selection of marked departures that’s an area I’d pursue, all by the by though, I’m more mystified that these options don’t have the same dimensions. I’m interested in your opinion, what’s important to flag design?

    Mawkland • Since Jan 2010 • 1302 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

    I just looked up the history of the South African flag, which they seem to be quite proud of over there.

    Basically they:
    - got rid of an oppressive, alien form of government
    - had a specialist, Fred Brownell, design a flag to mark this

    We should follow this proven process.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    Basically they:
    - got rid of an oppressive, alien form of government
    - had a specialist, Fred Brownell, design a flag to mark this

    We should follow this proven process.

    Whatever happens, the chosen design for NZ will invariably be associated with "Brand Key" first and "Brand NZ" second. I predict sales of matches and cigarette lighters will spike up if things turn particularly toxic.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5445 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    Attachment

    Flagging a dead horse…

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7953 posts Report Reply

  • Alfie,

    Good news... the Herald has another journo who doesn't go all sucky when it comes to criticising the government. Karl Puschmann on the disappointment of the four "chosen" flags.

    I guess this is what happens if you load your selection committee with middle management personnel instead of people with training, expertise and an informed opinion on what constitutes good design.

    Dunedin • Since May 2014 • 1440 posts Report Reply

  • chris, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    Awsome Ian, I like Weet-Bix best!

    Mawkland • Since Jan 2010 • 1302 posts Report Reply

  • chris,

    Attachment Attachment

    Pointed out in Suff comments. Is it legal for anyone to sell items printed with a New Zealand flag? Would that change if the focus of the design was already a trademark?

    Mawkland • Since Jan 2010 • 1302 posts Report Reply

  • Katharine Moody, in reply to chris,

    Hmm..

    Detailed due diligence will now be completed on these designs, including robust intellectual property checks.

    https://www.govt.nz/browse/engaging-with-government/the-nz-flag-your-chance-to-decide/open-letter/

    Someone should send an OIA to NZTE and ask if that option breaches their TM. Wonder how they’d answer that :-).

    Wellington • Since Sep 2014 • 798 posts Report Reply

  • Alfie, in reply to ,

    I reckon that one would get my vote Steven. ;-)

    Dunedin • Since May 2014 • 1440 posts Report Reply

  • Rob Stowell,

    There must be some chance the pro-fern vote (the fernies?) will be split three ways, allowing the koru, backed by the considerable anti-fern vote and general rabble of lefties to win with <30%.

    Whakaraupo • Since Nov 2006 • 2110 posts Report Reply

  • Rob Stowell, in reply to ,

    Attachment

    What about this one :)

    Whakaraupo • Since Nov 2006 • 2110 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to ,

    Attachment

    You've nailed it.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4593 posts Report Reply

  • Deborah, in reply to ,

    I love it, Steven! Very, very clever.

    New Lynn • Since Nov 2006 • 1447 posts Report Reply

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