Up Front by Emma Hart

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Up Front: Gathered Together

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  • JoJo,

    The picnic at Parliament has been called off due to Wellington's signature grey rainy day ... but I'm still expecting to see rainbows :)

    Wellington • Since Jul 2008 • 95 posts Report Reply

  • Max Rose,

    Always gay-drink gay-responsibly

    Quite right. We don't want anyone bingeing like a bisexual, now, do we?

    And imagine the strain of maintaining the cognitive dissonance of continuing to believe they were right when all around them, society fails to fall apart.

    When it comes to cognitive dissonance, the Wellingtonista comments are positively Stravinskyesque at the moment.

    Wellington • Since Sep 2011 • 83 posts Report Reply

  • The Ruminator,

    This is my favourite post on the subject matter so far, because it at least expresses a modicum of empathy for "the other side". So thank you Emma, you are one of the choicest people I know in an internety-I-met-you-once-at-a-Great-Blend kind of way.

    Since Apr 2013 • 54 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Tonight is for celebrating, with like-minded individuals.

    Going to be all boring and assimilated and shit tonight. First night in for a while, so we'll probably have the radio on over a decent home cooked dinner. Am I the only person who will probably find tonight a wee bit of an anti-climax, and is totally OK with that? No disrespect to everyone who's done the hard yards on this, but it's also been refreshing that New Zealand (apart from the usual suspects) has managed to be remarkably civilized about it all.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to The Ruminator,

    This is my favourite post on the subject matter so far, because it at least expresses a modicum of empathy for “the other side”.

    Sorry for sounding all Bill Clinton here, but why wouldn't I have empathy for some of "the other side"? The likes of Bob McCoskrie and Evil Namesake may be disingenuous, lying fuckbags but there are people who would be perfectly justified in getting their panic on if what they were being told had any relationship to reality. I've had a few awkward but kinda awesome conversations in my own church where I've had to explain that, not to put too fine a point on it, our leaders are lying and I never wanted to force our parish priest to gay-marry me or anyone else.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • The Ruminator, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    there are people who would be perfectly justified in getting their panic on if what they were being told had any relationship to reality

    A well made point, in your delightful style Craig. Some of the "bigots" out there are really only moving with the tide of the group they sit within. And I don't think we can get all up in their grill about it.

    Since Apr 2013 • 54 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to The Ruminator,

    And I don’t think we can get all up in their grill about it.

    Sometimes, I think the still small voice of just being out can speak the loudest. In a funny way, folks trying to reconcile the outright terrifying homophobic stereotypes with the not-at-all scary GLBT people in their lives is a lot like coming out to yourself. It's easy to hate an abstract collective noun.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    The likes of Bob McCoskrie and Evil Namesake may be disingenuous, lying fuckbags but there are people who would be perfectly justified in getting their panic on if what they were being told had any relationship to reality.

    Yeah, this. I had this conversation with my partner last night, when he thought perhaps I might be getting a little too gleeful. There are people who have been lied to, who are now genuinely fearful, and I feel for them.

    But let me be perfectly clear. Those other people? Fuck those people. The ones who did the scare-mongering. The ones who stood up at select committees and said I wasn't fit to raise my children? Fuck those people. Who equated loving consensual same-sex relationships with various forms of rape? Fuck those people. Who cast themselves as the victims in all of this? Srsly, fuck those people and their crushing lack of self-awareness. I don't have to feel sympathy for them. I don't think it's fair to require that any LGBTI person behave with grace towards people who have treated them with hate.

    I also don't think it's necessary to lash out at them. The cold gray loveless mean-spirited world they've made inside their heads is punishment enough.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4650 posts Report Reply

  • The Ruminator,

    Those other people? Fuck those people

    I also don’t think it’s necessary to lash out at them

    I love your rage and sensibility. In fact that's the name of your memoir right there

    Emma Hart: Rage and Sensibility

    Since Apr 2013 • 54 posts Report Reply

  • Megan Wegan, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    I’ve had a few awkward but kinda awesome conversations in my own church where I’ve had to explain that, not to put too fine a point on it, our leaders are lying and I never wanted to force our parish priest to gay-marry me or anyone else.

    The one thing I have tried to do, over and over again, is make the point that I won't, can't be forced to marry anyone. That was, aside from the hateful bigotry, the thing that annoyed me, because it's an out and out lie.

    I've told everyone I could that under the current legislation, I can't be compelled to marry anyone, and the legislation won't change that. The piece of paper I get handed by a couple says that I am authorised, but not required, to marry someone. And nothing about that has/will changed. And that why would anyone want to force someone to do that, anyway?

    Welly • Since Jul 2008 • 1275 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    Something I forgot to mention in the post. I spent some time yesterday reading stuff from the passing of the Civil Union bill, and a question came to mind.

    What happened to Destiny Church? Where are the black-shirted incredibly-aggressive marchers? Are they now just holing up and putting all their money into canned food and shotguns?

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4650 posts Report Reply

  • Max Rose, in reply to Emma Hart,

    Those other people? Fuck those people.

    This. I occasionally have some skerrick of sympathy for people who are raised in such repressive and conservative backgrounds that they can't think for themselves. But those who tied themselves up into rhetorical knots to try to pretend their theocratic arrogance and visceral hatred was a matter of logic? They can go fuck themselves.

    Wellington • Since Sep 2011 • 83 posts Report Reply

  • Martin Lindberg, in reply to Max Rose,

    They can go fuck themselves.

    They probably could, but that would be a sin.

    Stockholm • Since Jul 2009 • 802 posts Report Reply

  • Max Rose, in reply to Martin Lindberg,

    And I really wouldn't want to look.

    Wellington • Since Sep 2011 • 83 posts Report Reply

  • Max Rose,

    Actually, Coley has nailed it in her blog:

    I am sick of invites being extended to bigots. Of lip-service thanks to homophobes for their “passion” and “values” and the desire to create spaces where “everyone can have a say”.
    ...
    I’m not saying we shouldn’t create discourse, but I am fucking uncomfortable with the constant need to create spaces where bigots are apparently just as welcome as queer people. We already have enough spaces for bigots. It’s called society.

    Wellington • Since Sep 2011 • 83 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell, in reply to Emma Hart,

    What happened to Destiny Church? Where are the black-shirted incredibly-aggressive marchers? Are they now just holing up and putting all their money into canned food and shotguns?

    Busily working on their chain of charter schools probably

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2608 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to Paul Campbell,

    Busily working on their chain of charter schools probably

    Report

    Or trying to patch up relationships with former church members...their Southern forays were strikingly unsuccessful...

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Dinah Dunavan,

    Woohoo!

    Dunedin • Since Jun 2008 • 186 posts Report Reply

  • Chris Waugh,

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 2401 posts Report Reply

  • Brent Jackson,

    Great news.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 615 posts Report Reply

  • Jackie Clark,

    The two speeches that stood out for me - and there were a few - were those of Mojo Mathers, and Kevin Hague. Beautiful.

    Mt Eden, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3136 posts Report Reply

  • Ben Austin,

    The various speeches in support from those on the right - Banks, Henere, or Burrows are especially moving, given the expectation of a contrary view.

    London • Since Nov 2006 • 1019 posts Report Reply

  • DexterX,

    An unusual event in itself, that legislation lifts rather than creates a burden; the passing of the bill makes life easier for people. Yay.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1224 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Stewart, in reply to Ben Austin,

    The various speeches in support from those on the right – Banks, Henere, or Burrows are especially moving, given the expectation of a contrary view.

    Wasn't Burrows the "I guess the gays are okay, but I can't quite bring myself to give them rights" speech? Because I'm not finding that particularly moving.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2105 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell,

    Particularly funny is the online US reaction to the "UNLOCK THE DOORS" in the parliamentary video

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2608 posts Report Reply

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