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Speaker: Are there opportunities within the Government’s childhood obesity plan?

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  • Sacha,

    From everything I have studied and experienced, individualising any complex social problem will not solve it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_attribution_error

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19719 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to steven crawford,

    So, is wine and beer from the supermarket food?

    If it's any help, the last time I looked emergency vouchers issued by certain welfare agencies, redeemable at Pak'nSave, were endorsed to prevent their being used to purchase booze.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4593 posts Report Reply

  • Rosemary McDonald, in reply to Joe Wylie,

    If it’s any help, the last time I looked emergency vouchers issued by certain welfare agencies, redeemable at Pak’nSave, were endorsed to prevent their being used to purchase booze.

    Yep...and tobacco products. And they do check. And they do yell from the checkout to the supervisor that someone's here with a voucher from WINZ or CYFs.

    And while we're on the subject of welfare agencies....did y'all know that foster parents are not allowed to give their charges bottles to suck on in bed?

    Even three year olds with a sucky bottle habit of their small lifetime.

    So...while you're trying to show this wee kid that he is loved and cared for and not being punished, and even though we're strangers, you're a kid and we love you but no you can't have your sucky bottle of milo take to bed...cue loud screams from already distressed child.

    Waikato, or on the road • Since Apr 2014 • 1344 posts Report Reply

  • B Jones,

    That would be because they're trying to prevent serious tooth decay in pre-schoolers. Milk sugar on your teeth all night is not good for them.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 976 posts Report Reply

  • Rosemary McDonald, in reply to Lilith __,

    I have made constructive suggestions. Perhaps you’d like to be constructive also.

    I did...comment no.6.

    Tax sugary processed foods. Decrease GST on fresh fruit and veg. And fresh meat.

    Just after continuing my personal 'fat shaming story' and before I led the thread down the path of cullinary unrighteousness by relating a cooking tale.

    Mea culpa


    I'll leave you to it.

    Waikato, or on the road • Since Apr 2014 • 1344 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle,

    I think “culinary righteousness” is what we’ve actually been arguing AGAINST. But yeah, OK, flouncing is good too.

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • Rosemary McDonald, in reply to B Jones,

    That would be because they’re trying to prevent serious tooth decay in pre-schoolers. Milk sugar on your teeth all night is not good for them.

    Err, yes, kinda been talking about that....but...telling the actual parents not to do it appears to be all 'hand wavy' judgmental....

    I did put up some links to the sugary drinks in baby bottle causing rotten teeth issue...here's another one...

    .http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10710408

    and another one....http://i.stuff.co.nz/national/health/8199941/Dismay-at-tooth-decay-in-Kiwi-kids

    Dental surgery services are so stretched, there are reports of waiting lists of up to 100 children at some hospitals.

    In the worst cases, dentists are forced to extract a mouthful of baby teeth from preschoolers, often because toddlers are given bottles of juice or fizzy drinks.

    Top dentists have vented frustrations that severe tooth decay is one of the most common and costly diseases of children, yet also completely preventable.

    Auckland children's dentist Nina Vasan - who treated a three-year-old with 10 cavities last week - said it's not just a disease of the poor. She treats children of all ages and demographics.

    Vasan, a Kidz-teeth paediatrician, said parents are often shocked to discover the extent of the problem.

    "Parents feel really guilty because it may have been a lack of their knowledge. Sometimes parents are crying and really upset because they feel they are to blame."

    A condition dubbed "baby bottle teeth decay", midnight snacks and a lack of dental check-ups are all chipping away at children's teeth.

    Vasan says most parents change their habits to stop decay recurring, but a Waikato Hospital dentist says some parents are not getting the message.

    and another one....http://fizz.org.nz/sites/fizz.org.nz/files/6%20Sugar%20Sweetened%20Beverages,%20Obesity,%20Diabetes%20and%20Oral%20Health.pdf

    Waikato, or on the road • Since Apr 2014 • 1344 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __, in reply to Rosemary McDonald,

    .

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3891 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to Joe Wylie,

    If it’s any help, the last time I looked emergency vouchers issued by certain welfare agencies, redeemable at Pak’nSave, were endorsed to prevent their being used to purchase booze.

    Back in the day, when I turned twenty, my dole payments went up precisely enough to buy a crate of big bottles. The quandary was always getting a car to drive around drinking it in.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4414 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart, in reply to Joe Wylie,

    were endorsed to prevent their being used to purchase booze.

    Yeah. And my home-made pasta sauce has wine in it.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4651 posts Report Reply

  • B Jones,

    Juice and/or fizzy in baby bottles is what gets the media coverage and the outrage going, but equally harmful things like putting kids to bed with a bottle are considered normal kind parenting by many many people. Focusing on the former at the expense of the latter feels more like a moral panic than a genuine health initiative. It's easier to point the finger at a media myth (like Danielle said, who actually does that?) than change something people see as normal. See also: adults complaining about underage drinking when overage drinking is just as problematic.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 976 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Emma Hart,

    Yeah. And my home-made pasta sauce has wine in it.

    For some reason I was reminded of my mother's Christchurch next door neighbour back in the Muldoon era, who was the public face of an organisation called CARP, aka Campaign Against Rising Prices. When she listed chocolate biscuits among the items which had recently undergone a steep price rise she received an abusive call from an angry Fendalton lady who told her "You people shouldn't have chocolate biscuits!"

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4593 posts Report Reply

  • B Jones,

    I heard what might be an urban legend about the Kirk era Labour Party, putting up taxes on makeup as a ploy for the feminist vote, strange as that sounds. It's all sumptuary laws for a modern age.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 976 posts Report Reply

  • Isabel Hitchings,

    Once, long ago, I was left unable to pay my rent due to a flatmate suddenly moving out just before Christmas. WINZ couldn't, they said, help with the rent, but they could give me a $60 food voucher (to be spent in a single trip). I had already bought food for the week (which was why I didn't have money for extra rent) and, with only a tiny fridge and even smaller icebox, I couldn't stock up on fresh food, so that $60 was spent, almost entirely, on treats like chocolate biscuits and orange juice. I couldn't get my actual needs met, but I was able to buy a few scraps of happiness.

    Christchurch • Since Jul 2007 • 719 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle, in reply to Rosemary McDonald,

    I don't think there's anyone here who believes that sugar DOESN'T cause tooth decay. We're hardly members of the Flat Earth Society.

    I'm going to keep this very simple. Public health educational initiatives GOOD and EFFECTIVE (probably); accosting random parents at the dairy BAD and INEFFECTIVE (probably).

    So wandering the earth making judgement calls about what you see as poor parenting isn't doing any fundamental social good. It just gives professional concern trolls a sense of self-satisfaction.

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __,

    This seems a lovely initiative: Garden To Table: working with schools to teach kids how to grow, harvest, and prepare vegetables.

    Why not buy a cute teatowel to support them? Perfect for Xmas.

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3891 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle, in reply to Lilith __,

    I'm still allowed to hate gardening more than anything, right? :)

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • Katharine Moody, in reply to Danielle,

    Public health educational initiatives GOOD and EFFECTIVE (probably)

    Except that they haven't been so far - as numerous health professionals have pointed out - a punitive tax seems to be the only thing we haven't tried thus far. And given the near total lack of support for such an initiative on this thread, I guess one can see why JK's lot are against it .. it's not just their corporate friends that would scream foul.

    Wellington • Since Sep 2014 • 798 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    I recently brought a mini deep fryer home from a Trademe auction. I’m now known around the house as big fat frydady Steve. So I ran an oil test which yielded this result:

    One feed of hot chips equals actually not much rice bran oil at all.
    My edmonds cookbook beer battered fish, soaks up much more.

    I have a favourite staple which is (And I am not trying to prove I dominate this discussion, OK!) Kumera.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4414 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle, in reply to Katharine Moody,

    a punitive tax seems to be the only thing we haven’t tried thus far

    Did you even read Megan's amazing, beautiful post up there in which she lays out structural changes which have NOT been tried and are not even LIKELY to be tried and yet would make HUGE differences without being at all punitive? Have you read any of the posts in which people might conceivably be pro such a tax IF OTHER VERY IMPORTANT CONDITIONS ARE MET? Finally, am I losing my fucking mind on this thread? (Yes.)

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to Danielle,

    Well, you are starting to use caps a bit more than usual :-)

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4414 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle, in reply to steven crawford,

    I think Twitter Me is coming to hang out with Public Address Me, with predictable results. ;)

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart, in reply to Katharine Moody,

    a punitive tax seems to be the only thing we haven’t tried thus far

    We haven't tried giving everyone ponies. It wouldn't work, but hey, we haven't tried it.

    it’s not just their corporate friends that would scream foul

    I'm against it because it's punitive - meaning punishing - and a horrible thing to do to people who are struggling. I'm against it because it would increase the functional poverty of families, and we all know that poverty is really bad for children. I'm against it because it's wrong both morally and practically.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4651 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __, in reply to Danielle,

    I’m still allowed to hate gardening more than anything, right? :)

    If you buy the teatowel, no one will ever know. ;-)

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3891 posts Report Reply

  • Katharine Moody, in reply to Danielle,

    Did you even read Megan’s amazing, beautiful post up there in which she lays out structural changes which have NOT been tried and are not even LIKELY to be tried and yet would make HUGE differences without being at all punitive?

    I did - and yes I'm all for all those ideas, but they relate to wider, big picture issues.

    With the focus on obesity and health, I also read the link the author of this blog post made to what ought to be and up front, first action point made by WHO is TAX. Second is ENVIRONMENT.

    Same points made by Dr Toomath;

    Dr Toomath is honest about this. She is not a big believer in free will at the best of times, she says, and especially not in this case.

    "The idea that we can describe the problem in terms of personal responsibility, you know, that it can be called a choice, a lifestyle choice, it's crap. There's no choice ... To think that people choose to be obese, and if you educated them better, or if they were more steely and determined, self-denying, that they could not be the shape they are, is just rubbish."

    Which screams out at me - TAX and ENVIRONMENT.

    Whereas you're advocating EDUCATION.

    I'm not losing my f..ing mind - I'm just advocating for what would work..

    Wellington • Since Sep 2014 • 798 posts Report Reply

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