Southerly: Sign this Petition
108 Responses
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Sacha, in reply to
Surely a simpler answer is the book was timed to maximise sales? Your capitalist mind must see that possibility. :)
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Sacha, in reply to
strengthening the Conservatives and NZ First
that would be how voters on the centre and right are responding to their lack of trust in the Nats (or in the parties of the left).
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Marianne Elliott, in reply to
Thanks for clarifying that David, I am running ActionStation now, but Megan Salole - who got ActionStation off the ground before taking parental leave - is the person formally registered with the Electoral Commission for our promoter statements.
Megan and I share a belief in the importance of informed and active citizen engagement in politics. So first and foremost, ActionStation is member-led, which means if our members don't like a campaign, and don't support it and share it, it won't go anywhere. We are also multi-issue, meaning we might be campaigning on a democracy issue one week and a social justice issue the next.
We are non-partisan, but committed to progressive ideals: a fair and equitable society, transparent and accountable governance and a healthy environment. We believe there are New Zealanders right across the political spectrum who share those values and we want to provide them with new ways to come together to take action when those values are under threat.
If people do join ActionStation - and I hope lots of you will - you'll get to choose whether you support each action. You opt-in and out as you like - and no-one's name will ever be added to anything unless they explicitly and actively choose to opt-in.
Thanks SO much for sharing this petition David - when I read that Harold signed it I confess I teared up a little.
Marianne
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Most depressing of all is that “the public doesn’t care” has become the accepted analysis—certainly by the major newspaper chains.
I guess that's the most likely conclusion to broadcast when a seemingly large amount of election coverage is focused on repeating smug sound-bites, run alongside continuous horse race commentary about who's supposedly in front on any given day. :(
For whatever reason people complained this scandal was eclipsing coverage of policy.
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Tinakori, in reply to
It not only sees that possibility it admires the strategy as a commercial strategy but strategies can also have multiple, complementary and reinforcing objectives.
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Dismal Soyanz, in reply to
Quite clearly its timing was intended to affect the election result
If you had stopped at "election", I would agree with you. But the result? As you point out, Hager didn't believe the outcome would be changed radically. What I believe he intended is that people would start demanding accountability for the behaviour of various people - all connected to the National Party (be they Ministers or staffers). The fact that it has had a significant impact on media (MSM, social and otherwise) coverage of the election cannot be denied. Reading between the lines, you seem to suggest that Hager intended for there to be a massive shift in support for some party other than National, NZF and the Conservatives. I certainly never got that impression from the book or any of his comments subsequent to its release.
When you talk about the unintended consequence of support for NZF or the Conservatives, I doubt Hager even thought about the shifting of votes in any specific way. I would have expected some loss of support for National but beyond that is really just speculation rather than an "intended" consequence.
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Regarding Hager's timing, I have to say that it's patently obvious he's trying to affect the election result. Good, whether his motivation is to get rid of these corrupt clowns, or something deeper.
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So it depends on what you mean by the "election result".
It could mean either
(a) who forms the next government; or
(b) the specific voting behaviour of the NZ electorate.I'm sure Hager would have liked to draw support away from National (b) but I doubt he was so optimistic as to expect (a).
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Sacha, in reply to
Kia ora
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Lou, in reply to
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Greg Dawson, in reply to
Regarding Hager’s timing, I have to say that it’s patently obvious he’s trying to affect the election result. Good, whether his motivation is to get rid of these corrupt clowns, or something deeper.
You heard it here first - I fully intend to influence the election result, and my likely behaviour on the 20th (particularly the bit where I drop some paper in a box) can only be construed as a blatant attempt to subvert the rightful government of the day.
Knowing how responsible Mr Hager generally appears to be, I expect he intends no less.
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Lou, in reply to
I think this cartoon in the Herald yesterday may offer another viewpoint of what many people who work there are thinking....
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Russell Brown, in reply to
Regarding Hager’s timing, I have to say that it’s patently obvious he’s trying to affect the election result. Good, whether his motivation is to get rid of these corrupt clowns, or something deeper.
The key to the timing is that he was already working on a book, but got the crucial information in April, so it was a matter of whether he'd choose to leave it till after the election or not. Actively deciding to leave it would have been quite a decision.
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I think it's disgraceful that a book's publication date should be blatantly timed to try and influence the election result, and I look forward to an apology to the voters from John Roughan of the NZ Herald.
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Bart Janssen, in reply to
Surely a simpler answer is the book was timed to maximise sales? Your capitalist mind must see that possibility. :)
Much like the John Key autobiography and the NZRugby cover picture - yeah right.
Dirty Politics was obviously timed to influence this election and comments otherwise are disingenuous.
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Moz, in reply to
Dirty Politics was obviously timed to influence this election and comments otherwise are disingenuous.
Yes. An awful lot of stuff is being done about now in an attempt to influence the outcome of the election. Some people are talking as though that's a bad thing.
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Most depressing of all is that “the public doesn’t care” has become the accepted analysis—certainly by the major newspaper chains.
It's not that the analysis is accepted or even remotely reasonable, but rather that many of the MSM have been shown to be at best incompetent and at worst deeply complicit in an ongoing hidden campaign to attack anyone seen as a problem by John Key's government.
In short the MSM are covering their own arses and care very little about their role in society.
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Bart Janssen, in reply to
Some people are talking as though that’s a bad thing.
As far as the MSM are concerned the big problem with Dirty Politics is they aren't getting revenue from it hence it must be bad, whereas honourable ACT and National party advertising is clearly a good thing. sigh.
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tussock, in reply to
It's a been a standard tactic against the book itself: delegitimise it by by alleging it's partisan.
It is partisan. The left spokesfolk believe that this is a bad thing, while the spokesfolk of the right have openly taken great joy in it since at least the days of Helengrad, if not dancing Cossacks and even the formation of the National party in the first place to fight against organised social good.
I've heard family anecdotes about this stuff from the 40's. Not every National government has been that way, nor every Labour government free of it, but for the most part and certainly today and in the near future: being clean, open, and honest, playing the ball and not the player, is a left wing idea for government.
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Ian Dalziel, in reply to
Dirty Politics was obviously timed to influence this election and comments otherwise are disingenuous.
I see it more as a mad scramble by the railway children, through dense bracken and against the clock, to alert the Honeytown Express driver that the Mad Meccano Mob have been tampering with the supports of the upcoming viaduct, bridging the vast chasm of disbelief and ennui.
A structure already strained by prevailing winds, and non-Euclidean geometry.
They were alerted to this by snuffy, their feral fox friend finding felonious fingerprints in filched files...
Now they know they have to act...
If they make it they could at least slow it down a bit, to minimise the inevitable trainwreck... even stop it.</metaphoria>
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Stephen R, in reply to
first: yes, signed on.
I've heard family anecdotes about this stuff from the 40's. Not every National government has been that way, nor every Labour government free of it, but for the most part and certainly today and in the near future: being clean, open, and honest, playing the ball and not the player, is a left wing idea for government.
That's a rather depressing outlook, and I hope you are wrong, but fear you are correct.
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Stephen R, in reply to
I see it more as a mad scramble by the railway children, through dense bracken and against the clock, to alert the Honeytown Express driver that the Mad Meccano Mob have been tampering with the supports of the upcoming viaduct, bridging the vast chasm of disbelief and ennui.
A structure already strained by prevailing winds, and non-Euclidean geometry.That was a quote from "Five go mad on Mescalin", right?
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I don’t give a flying fuck why Dirty Politics was written or when it was released. I care about whether its content is true. None of its allegations have been disproved.
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Ian Dalziel, in reply to
lettuce spray...
That was a quote from “Five go mad on Mescalin”, right?
Hmmmm, more a collection of childhood cliches (that included) strung into a trope ladder, macrame memes for the masses, 'Mesclun Salad Days', with just a little radish, maybe?
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tussock, in reply to
the impact appears to have been an unintended one of strengthening the Conservatives and NZ First
There's always a spike for some random authoritarian "common sense", "listen to the people", "won't someone think of the children" minor parties around election time. There's a bunch of people have a history that makes them distrust both Labour and National intensely and they vote for anyone who's going to make 5% to keep them in check.
The combined swing from Labour+National to various Minors hovering around around the margin is about 6%. Most of that is "undecided" voters that don't show up in the previous 3 years of polls who finally get a look at who's going to get in and won't be a wasted vote (and also hits one of their pet issues).
In the past, if a major party looks like they can't win, their vote collapses and goes into the leading minors instead, to drag the other major closer. Labour-Green is probably high enough to avoid that this time. But there's a lot of propaganda about who "can't win".
Not that the polls will tell you either. The swing from National to Labour on the day, against the polling trends, was 5% last time (about 3% of that moving from National to NZF), and polling this time is even more variable.
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