Hard News by Russell Brown

Read Post

Hard News: Why we thought what we thought

292 Responses

First ←Older Page 1 6 7 8 9 10 12 Newer→ Last

  • steven crawford, in reply to Sofie Bribiesca,

    Personally I’m odd, because I don’t look at left ,right centre. I see Labour as working class, middle of the road so their roots are still intact. I see Greens advertising all over the Ponse and Herne Bay so I suspect they are heading to target the middle class with their roots still intact. I see IMP as addressing the disenfranchised as a target.

    Same.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4411 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to oga,

    Is it just me

    It's definitely not just you. Fair enough, I didn't really define the terms Left and Right, but I don't really want to either. Just wanted to say that the problem for National supporters who might actually be disgusted by the recent revelations is that there's just nothing on their right to move to. They're stuck with Peters and Dunne toward the center, or maybe the Maori Party. Dunne is somewhat tainted and Peters is highly socially conservative (and Craig even more so), which means right wing liberals have got nowhere to go. They have to suck it up, or they could refuse to vote. If they choose the second option, that's not a win for the right. At least with a viable ACT party that isn't crooked or stocked with social conservatives they had somewhere to go that would certainly ally with National, whilst giving them their protest signal.

    This was always the trouble with National swallowing up the Right as a plan. It looks great if you think FPP. But that's not our system and it's strategically weak in any game of center control to find yourself not straddling the center. Which is how they ended up with quite a thin majority after only one term, despite the huge popularity of Key, and a nation weary of 9 years of Labour. It's bizarre that the party with MMPs biggest ever proportional tallies has found itself with such a weak hold on power. Basically, they still just don't get MMP. Winston Peters has been Kingmaker in this country for nearly 20 years because they could not grasp that their endless desire to push through right wing economic reform has placed him right on that sweet spot.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10650 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Alfie,

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think O’Connor would be doing anything illegal if he had leaked Police video evidence to Slater

    O'Connor is the head of the police staff union. He has no more right to share inquiry evidence than you or I do.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19706 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to steven crawford,

    which in reality are looking like being coalition partners, and the Greens might one day be the larger party.

    They always have looked like they could work together and I doubt their policies are soo much the same ,it will be perfect because it’s about compromise. The Greens advantage is that they haven’t been in power to make mistakes. Goff when leader of Opposition did say they made mistakes and they believe they have learnt valuable lessons from it. That sort of comment never makes the papers. It’s a shame people get stuck on that. Like Rogernomics ( although completely different ) really . Douglas and Prebble . They went on to become Act. But Labour wears the badge.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    hash tag team wrangle...
    Don't forget The Press Leaders Debate is
    Live on the web tonight from 7pm

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7943 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to mccx,

    Other right-leaning voters? Some could move to the Conservatives and some to NZ First, but for many it’s National or nothing, which may be why polls haven’t moved drastically.

    In reality Labour aren't that far to the left of traditional National but the anti Labour/Greens rhetoric of the current government seems to have frightened left leaning National voters leaving them with little option but to return the corrupt version to the front benches. I can't help thinking this was a deliberate ploy but the ineptitude shown recently makes me doubt that.
    If traditional Nat supporters would listen to Labours policies we might actually see some change in the polling, one would hope, on the day, that the Nats fan base will recognise that this government must go. Time for a clear out.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • izogi, in reply to Michael Meyers,

    So if a right-leaning voter such at Matthew Hooten were to defect from National, where’s he going to go?

    To me this is why it’s not enough just to investigate and prosecute those [allegedly] involved, or to tell everyone to vote them out. Investigating stuff that's already happened won't necessarily improve what happens in the future, and voters need to weigh too many conflicting things to always be able to prioritise something like integrity.

    We should be able to vote based on policy, without being concerned that those being elected might not actually adhere to the law once they’re elevated to the top of the accountability chain.

    There could be plenty of policy to discuss about this, but so far there’s been little if anything from any party on how they might actually improve the accountability of what happens in Ministerial offices, and lessen the political conflicts of interest, no matter who’s in office at any given time.

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 1139 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen, in reply to Steve Barnes,

    the anti Labour/Greens rhetoric

    The way I have been hearing it from my relatives is , they HAVE to vote National to avoid The Greens, who have been successfully tarred as wanting to drive us all back to the stone age. The logic is that a vote for Labour is a vote for The Greens.

    And yes I find that logic absurd too.

    That's why I really really want The Greens to become much stronger on evidence based policy, it takes away the "fear of loonies" that is "forcing" the reasonable center voters to vote National.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4458 posts Report Reply

  • Dismal Soyanz,

    Speaking of things hootin', if Hooton was not embellishing, the PM's absorbing of CERA is amusing. No need to pick up the phone to start an argument then. I feel a Monty Python sketch coming on...

    Wellington • Since Nov 2010 • 310 posts Report Reply

  • Phil Wallington, in reply to Nick Russell,

    Hi Nick... As ever, I bow to your legal expertise. Was discussing same with a recently elevated QC this morning and he believes that Odgers won't even want to come back to NZ anytime. I suspect she will slink off to the UK and do a spot of legal hackery, maybe conveyancing. I would personally recommend Belfast as a good place to start. Her talents might be able to facilitate some real estate deals in Falls Road or the delightful suburb of Ardoyne.

    Waikawa Beach • Since Sep 2013 • 41 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    The Greens seem to already have plenty of evidence-based policy – just not perhaps in the area you want it. They’re constantly smeared by the right as being economically ‘loony’ when they’ve had a coherent policy in that dimension for years now. I doubt adopting rationalist science positions will fix their reputation.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19706 posts Report Reply

  • izogi, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    That’s why I really really want The Greens to become much stronger on evidence based policy, it takes away the “fear of loonies” that is “forcing” the reasonable center voters to vote National.

    I was dismayed when ACT’s was given Ministerial posts, for similar reasons. In my mind it’s one of the looniest parties to have been elected to parliament, even if its general looniness changes each election according to who buys the shelf corpo^H^H^H^H^Hparty in any given election for its voter support. But the world still hasn’t ended, despite encounters with the likes of Rodney Hide, even if some things have been messed up along the way IMHO.

    I was mildly disappointed to see the Greens’ Love NZ campaign. Not that I wouldn’t expect it to have that policy, but I thought that people who might be affected by that type of policy would already be fully familiar with the Greens. It could have made things more interesting to see the GP pro-actively pushing itself into economic debates and stuff as its main line. The standard claim from National is that embarasses itself when it tries because “we’re the party for good economic policy and the Greens are loony dope-smoking stone-aged environmentalists”, or something like that, but it needs to prove otherwise.

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 1139 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to Sofie Bribiesca,

    It’s a shame people get stuck on that. Like Rogernomics ( although completely different ) really . Douglas and Prebble . They went on to become Act. But Labour wears the badge.

    Perhaps Labour could play on that to the right wing.
    "Labour, the party that bought you free market economics and user pays"

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • oga, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    Thank you, Bart. I suspect that part of the problem with the New Zealand electorate is that the labels that political parties wear don't quite stick on properly. I always felt that National and Labour were too similar in their policy base. I assumed that they were more right leaning than left leaning, but your clarification based on world terms makes a lot of sense.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 47 posts Report Reply

  • tussock, in reply to oga,

    Is it just me, or is my perception of Labour as being basically a centre-right party that leans to the left correct?

    http://politicalcompass.org/nz2014

    That's a long-term international view. It's the doohicky that one news ripped off, and then shifted National to the middle of. It rates the policies they intend to implement.

    As it notes, the TPPA signed under the next National government will likely kill off ACC and Pharmac, while giving various US senators veto rights over our future lawmaking processes. It's a bit of a silent runner, but the Greens and Labour have both said it needs made public before signing, because they haven't seen it (other than the leaks, no doubt).


    Oh, someone noted our "left" is left of the US, which is true, because the US left is in the same damn place as their right.

    http://politicalcompass.org/uselection2012

    Since Nov 2006 • 609 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to Steve Barnes,

    Don't forget the administration fees for every piece of paper that moves.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4411 posts Report Reply

  • Lindsay Vette, in reply to tussock,

    Oh, someone noted our “left” is left of the US, which is true, because the US left is in the same damn place as their right.

    Exactly, although Republicans persist in labelling Democrats as pinko liberalists hell-bent on introducing some radical form of socialism, next stop the gulag for all “right” thinking gun-toting god-fearing citizens.

    The NZ right still thinks in FPP terms about minor parties despite National’s reliance on them to form every MMP government. Green voters and their political representatives are “tree huggers” hell-bent on introducing some radical form of socialism, next stop the gulag for all “right” thinking gun-toting god-fearing citizens.

    The reality is that the dominant party in a coalition is going to have the biggest say in what policies get implemented, with the minor parties having their input and moderation on the extent of each policy.

    While the mechanism of government and the parties understand how MMP works, there’s still a lot of ignorance out there, largely due to most voters’ unwillingness to really understand what’s happening in government, and spend more than a week or so every three years thinking about politics. Apathy has more political supporters than most of the parties.

    Tauranga • Since Nov 2006 • 16 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz, in reply to Phil Wallington,

    I think the traditional threat of "we know where yer live" is regarded as unlawyerly, even in Belfast.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen, in reply to Sacha,

    already have plenty of evidence-based policy

    Yup I know, that’s why I said strongER.

    Whereas for National I would have said get ANY evidence based policy.

    But I also think they need to make a thing of it across the board.
    eg Raising minimum wage because data from all these countries shows it improves quality of life in the whole society overall.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4458 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen, in reply to tussock,

    kill off ACC and Pharmac

    Most New Zealander's have NO IDEA how valuable both of these organisations are. They have combined to make it possible to run a first world health system on a third world budget.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4458 posts Report Reply

  • Trevor Nicholls, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    I think the traditional threat of "we know where yer live" is regarded as unlawyerly

    So farewell, Cactus Kate
    "Left wing c***s", that was your catchphrase
    Now you have left yourself, be careful you don't get caught

    Wellington, NZ • Since Nov 2006 • 324 posts Report Reply

  • James George,

    Everyone seems to accept that the Maori Party are firmly tucked into National's back pocket come hell or high water. Is this a solidly based perception or would continuing revelations unglue them from their colonial masters?

    Turiana is leaving so there goes the Maori Party share of the Labour/Maori dislike. Helen's been long gone from Labour so altho Flavell has always struck me as a tory at heart, he must have some realpolitik in him.
    It strikes me that grabbing undertakings from Cunliffe re whanau-ora would be a handy way of providing a bridge from a collapsing tent into the next big thing.

    I have no doubt that should the correct opportunity present the natz will jump at the chance of blaming as much as they can on 'corrupt Maori culture' or whatever, rather than take a hit themselves so it makes sense for Flavell to jump before he gets shit on.

    Since Sep 2007 • 96 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to James George,

    Everyone seems to accept that the Maori Party are firmly tucked into National’s back pocket come hell or high water. Is this a solidly based perception or would continuing revelations unglue them from their colonial masters?

    The Native Affairs polls -- which consistently show that Maori electorate voters would strongly prefer the Maori Party to go with Labour if there is a choice will presumably not be lost on them.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22825 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Sacha,

    The Greens seem to already have plenty of evidence-based policy – just not perhaps in the area you want it. They’re constantly smeared by the right as being economically ‘loony’ when they’ve had a coherent policy in that dimension for years now. I doubt adopting rationalist science positions will fix their reputation.

    This.

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2932 posts Report Reply

  • mccx, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    Both National and Labour are center left parties in the world sense and certainly in comparison to anything in the US.

    I don’t know how one might make sense of the political orientation of parties globally, but among western democracies I would dispute that National would be to the left of the mid-point. And are you saying that National is left of the Democrats in the US? The US systems means there’s ideological breadth within the two parties, but I imagine that if National enacted the policies they believe in they would be well to the right of the Democrats.

    We certainly have nothing in New Zealand that would satisfy a true left wing voter.

    How do the Greens not qualify? Among other English speaking countries the only party that's arguably more left is Canada's NDP.

    Wellington • Since Jan 2012 • 36 posts Report Reply

First ←Older Page 1 6 7 8 9 10 12 Newer→ Last

Post your response…

Please sign in using your Public Address credentials…

Login

You may also create an account or retrieve your password.