Hard News: The shaky ground of psychometric testing
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Stephen R, in reply to
Often, I've had them even sing my praises in a refusal, stating that they really liked me, I was second in line etc, etc. But there was someone else.
It's not you, it's me...
Also, I've heard it said that giving explicit reasons for not hiring someone opens up potential challenges, especially in the public service. Friends of mine involved in public sector hiring were always aware that they could be challenged by the applicant and needed to back up decisions by pointing at paperwork for process and evidence behind their decisions.
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Danielle, in reply to
Jeez, Caleb, when you list it all like *that* it sounds kinda bad. Wasn't I also working with you at that point? :)
(I am none of the people he describes, I hasten to add. Heh.)
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Carol Stewart, in reply to
This minds me of a blog post I read not so long ago - wish I could remember where - talking about how the new way to avoid hiring women/POC in Silicon Valley is "culture fit", e.g., "we're really impressed by your skills but you're not a good culture fit for the company". Like many of those insidious ideas, there's some truth to it, but it's also code for "you're not like us".
OTOH, is there really much difference between assessing the suitability of the candidate to work well in the team, and assessing cultural fit?
I'm not disputing for a moment that some organisations could do with wholesale culture changes .. like those Silicon Valley ones you mention.
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Martin Lindberg, in reply to
and assessing cultural fit?
I have mentioned this before, but this was basically why I recommended this one guy not get a job on my team because he admitted that he followed Coronation Street.
(He did get the job and I am happy to concede that I was totes wrong.)
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Holy shit -- I got this by email from a reader:
I went through Psychometric testing for a role in one of the central government agencies and it asked several questions about God (capital G so probably the Christian one).
I answered each of these very carefully, but as an atheist. The result was that they didn't want to take me further along the process because the tests had raised questions about my personal ethics.
The test questions were very definitely American, and of dubious value for use in New Zealand. Apparently cultural bias in IQ testing is something that is well understood but in psychometric testing its far more important just to have a product to sell.
Ironically the HR person who set up the tests for me to take called it "hooey", and I later learned I would have been working in a highly dysfunctional environment.
At which point I think this kind of testing gets elevated from merely being ropey to an actual human rights issue. And it's being used on our dollar as taxpayers.
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Stephen Judd, in reply to
Wow. I wonder if there are employment law consequences there.
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Stephen Judd, in reply to
Often, I’ve had them even sing my praises in a refusal, stating that they really liked me, I was second in line etc, etc.
Easy to say that to a basically competent person who didn't quite make it. Hard to tell someone hopeless that they're hopeless.
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Rich of Observationz, in reply to
Do we have laws and practices in NZ about separation of church and state?
Is it reasonable to have an overtly Christian waiata / prayer in a government body / SOE meeting? Does it being part of tikanga Maori make it ok?
(I know in the US it very much wouldn't be. People can be very staunch about that over there).
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First time I was involved in hiring anyone (early 90s) my boss and I used the following high-tech psychometric testing technique:
"So, what do you like to look at on T.V."
"The X-Files."
"When can you start?"
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Hmph. You know, I'll fight to the death on this: Coronation Street is one of the best shows on television in scriptwriting and acting terms. It also has a really diverse cast. I'd consider any guy who says he follows it to be rad. (My husband watches it religiously. :) )
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BenWilson, in reply to
Do we have laws and practices in NZ about separation of church and state?
Our head of state is also the head of the Church of England....
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Che Tibby, in reply to
And it's being used on our dollar as taxpayers.
could we take a second to note that the reported spend is less than the total amount handed out to exporters because fonterra had a botulism false positive?
also, i've done a few of these. the one time the associated role was not offered it was against the advice of the testing company. that told me that the interview and references were more important.
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B Jones, in reply to
And it’s being used on our dollar as taxpayers.
Then someone ought to be able to OIA departments to see who uses it. There might be a few issues if the company producing the test requires it to be kept confidential, but there's always the ombudsman to help out in those cases.
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I've seen some psychometrics used reasonably in the early stage of hiring to decide the sort of questions you might want to ask in the actual interviewing process. But using it in redundancy baffles me? Or any assessment once you're actually working with the person?
BTW, I must admit to some surprise that the PAS audience so aggressively belittles and others an entire group of people because they work in HR? I don't work in it, but people I know who do skew as evenly across the dickhead-to-awesomeness range as anyone else...
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Bart Janssen, in reply to
entire group of people because they work in HR
People who work in personel I'm OK with. Even some of the people in HR. But HR as a structure in big organisations seems to have become a mechanism to "defend managers from staff". Sometimes that is a reasonable thing (when some employees make false claims and rip off the system) and sometimes it's just a way of allowing bad management to push through bad policy with least resistance from staff.
In such situations it takes a cold person indeed to enact management decisions over staff, those are the people I struggle to understand and indeed respect.
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And like. Bibles being issued to NEW ZEALAND Army recruits? Like.
Like. Wow “In moments of crisis, pulling out a Bible can provide our service men and women with reassurance and strength, he said.”
Thank CHRIST I will have protection when having someone else’s godly person shooting at me!!!
F&^king disgusting. Funded by you the taxpayer.
A wag has just walked in. He wants to know if they are fire proof. Hahaha.
Just to reiterate the point to NZDF, Key and the other warmongers. This is no different than gearing up muslim soldiers to kill the infidels.
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Matthew Poole, in reply to
Funded by you the taxpayer.
No, they're not. Read that article carefully.
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Matthew Poole, in reply to
Do we have laws and practices in NZ about separation of church and state?
No, but we do have the Human Rights Act 1993, which lists amongst the prohibited grounds for discrimination: ethical belief, which means the lack of a religious belief, whether in respect of a particular religion or religions or all religions.
So it's actually outright illegal to refuse to hire someone because they're an atheist, as well as because they aren't. -
Ross Mason, in reply to
Funded by you the taxpayer.
No, they’re not. Read that article carefully.
GAH!!!!!!! And I remember reading that first time through that now too!!!! But as far as comfort goes, I would be cursing and swearing for allowing myself to be in such a position where a book (!) is alleged to be of some use.
Apols on that particular important fact.
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Martin Lindberg, in reply to
Like. Wow “In moments of crisis, pulling out a Bible can provide our service men and women with reassurance and strength, he said.”
We had those when I was in the armed forces. The ones we had didn't have that waterproof paper, which was lucky, because then we wouldn't have been able to use hem for:
a. kindling
b. toilet paper (in moments of true crisis)true story.
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Yep, they are an abomination unto the lord. Some years back, the EEO unit at the State Services Commission commissioned a publication about psychometric testing. I'm afraid I just can't recall the name of the psychologist-author. She concluded that their utility as a means of job choice was shonky, lacked reliability and validity and merely reinforced existing personal prejudices.In short, people could feel virtuous about discriminatory behaviour because it was "scientific" (not her words,) So when I heard about it being used again of late, I had a nasty suspicion that the ghost of all the discriminatory employment practices that we thought had gone the way of all flesh was back and making life miserable for various people who deserved better.
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Geoff Lealand, in reply to
Rapidly flipping past the commandment
Thou shall not kill?
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Rich Lock, in reply to
In moments of crisis, pulling out a Bible can provide our service men and women with reassurance and strength
It would depend on how absorbent the pages are, surely?
ETA: beaten by Martin. Although I read a story from a PoW in Korea who was asked if his bible provided comfort when he was in the camp. Yes, he said. Charcoal from the pages helped bung him and his mates up when they all had dysentry.
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Caleb D'Anvers, in reply to
LOL. No, Danielle, it wasn't you! Actually, this would have been around 2000, early 2001 at the latest, so you might not have been around at that point. And in any case it was a Department (That Shall Not Be Named) that you were fortunate enough never to work in ...
So there you go: a cast iron alibi! :)
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Caleb D'Anvers, in reply to
But as far as comfort goes, I would be cursing and swearing for allowing myself to be in such a position where a book (!) is alleged to be of some use.
So you're not down with this kind of thing?
The camp library is yours - Read to win the war
You will find popular books for fighting men in the recreational buildings and at other points in this camp. Free. No red tape. Open every day. Good reading will help you advance. Library War Service, American Library Association [1917].
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