Hard News by Russell Brown

Read Post

Hard News: The shaky ground of psychometric testing

154 Responses

First ←Older Page 1 3 4 5 6 7 Newer→ Last

  • Stephen R, in reply to BenWilson,

    Often, I've had them even sing my praises in a refusal, stating that they really liked me, I was second in line etc, etc. But there was someone else.

    It's not you, it's me...

    Also, I've heard it said that giving explicit reasons for not hiring someone opens up potential challenges, especially in the public service. Friends of mine involved in public sector hiring were always aware that they could be challenged by the applicant and needed to back up decisions by pointing at paperwork for process and evidence behind their decisions.

    Wellington • Since Jul 2009 • 259 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle, in reply to Caleb D'Anvers,

    Jeez, Caleb, when you list it all like *that* it sounds kinda bad. Wasn't I also working with you at that point? :)

    (I am none of the people he describes, I hasten to add. Heh.)

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • Carol Stewart, in reply to Lucy Stewart,

    This minds me of a blog post I read not so long ago - wish I could remember where - talking about how the new way to avoid hiring women/POC in Silicon Valley is "culture fit", e.g., "we're really impressed by your skills but you're not a good culture fit for the company". Like many of those insidious ideas, there's some truth to it, but it's also code for "you're not like us".

    OTOH, is there really much difference between assessing the suitability of the candidate to work well in the team, and assessing cultural fit?

    I'm not disputing for a moment that some organisations could do with wholesale culture changes .. like those Silicon Valley ones you mention.

    Wellington • Since Jul 2008 • 830 posts Report Reply

  • Martin Lindberg, in reply to Carol Stewart,

    and assessing cultural fit?

    I have mentioned this before, but this was basically why I recommended this one guy not get a job on my team because he admitted that he followed Coronation Street.

    (He did get the job and I am happy to concede that I was totes wrong.)

    Stockholm • Since Jul 2009 • 802 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Holy shit -- I got this by email from a reader:

    I went through Psychometric testing for a role in one of the central government agencies and it asked several questions about God (capital G so probably the Christian one).

    I answered each of these very carefully, but as an atheist. The result was that they didn't want to take me further along the process because the tests had raised questions about my personal ethics.

    The test questions were very definitely American, and of dubious value for use in New Zealand. Apparently cultural bias in IQ testing is something that is well understood but in psychometric testing its far more important just to have a product to sell.

    Ironically the HR person who set up the tests for me to take called it "hooey", and I later learned I would have been working in a highly dysfunctional environment.

    At which point I think this kind of testing gets elevated from merely being ropey to an actual human rights issue. And it's being used on our dollar as taxpayers.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen Judd, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Wow. I wonder if there are employment law consequences there.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 3122 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen Judd, in reply to BenWilson,

    Often, I’ve had them even sing my praises in a refusal, stating that they really liked me, I was second in line etc, etc.

    Easy to say that to a basically competent person who didn't quite make it. Hard to tell someone hopeless that they're hopeless.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 3122 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Do we have laws and practices in NZ about separation of church and state?

    Is it reasonable to have an overtly Christian waiata / prayer in a government body / SOE meeting? Does it being part of tikanga Maori make it ok?

    (I know in the US it very much wouldn't be. People can be very staunch about that over there).

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • Bruce Buckman,

    First time I was involved in hiring anyone (early 90s) my boss and I used the following high-tech psychometric testing technique:

    "So, what do you like to look at on T.V."

    "The X-Files."

    "When can you start?"

    Since Jan 2012 • 96 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle,

    Hmph. You know, I'll fight to the death on this: Coronation Street is one of the best shows on television in scriptwriting and acting terms. It also has a really diverse cast. I'd consider any guy who says he follows it to be rad. (My husband watches it religiously. :) )

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    Do we have laws and practices in NZ about separation of church and state?

    Our head of state is also the head of the Church of England....

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10657 posts Report Reply

  • Che Tibby, in reply to Russell Brown,

    And it's being used on our dollar as taxpayers.

    could we take a second to note that the reported spend is less than the total amount handed out to exporters because fonterra had a botulism false positive?

    also, i've done a few of these. the one time the associated role was not offered it was against the advice of the testing company. that told me that the interview and references were more important.

    the back of an envelope • Since Nov 2006 • 2042 posts Report Reply

  • B Jones, in reply to Russell Brown,

    And it’s being used on our dollar as taxpayers.

    Then someone ought to be able to OIA departments to see who uses it. There might be a few issues if the company producing the test requires it to be kept confidential, but there's always the ombudsman to help out in those cases.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 976 posts Report Reply

  • Gareth Ward,

    I've seen some psychometrics used reasonably in the early stage of hiring to decide the sort of questions you might want to ask in the actual interviewing process. But using it in redundancy baffles me? Or any assessment once you're actually working with the person?

    BTW, I must admit to some surprise that the PAS audience so aggressively belittles and others an entire group of people because they work in HR? I don't work in it, but people I know who do skew as evenly across the dickhead-to-awesomeness range as anyone else...

    Auckland, NZ • Since Mar 2007 • 1727 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen, in reply to Gareth Ward,

    entire group of people because they work in HR

    People who work in personel I'm OK with. Even some of the people in HR. But HR as a structure in big organisations seems to have become a mechanism to "defend managers from staff". Sometimes that is a reasonable thing (when some employees make false claims and rip off the system) and sometimes it's just a way of allowing bad management to push through bad policy with least resistance from staff.

    In such situations it takes a cold person indeed to enact management decisions over staff, those are the people I struggle to understand and indeed respect.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4461 posts Report Reply

  • Ross Mason,

    And like. Bibles being issued to NEW ZEALAND Army recruits? Like.

    Like. Wow “In moments of crisis, pulling out a Bible can provide our service men and women with reassurance and strength, he said.”

    Thank CHRIST I will have protection when having someone else’s godly person shooting at me!!!

    F&^king disgusting. Funded by you the taxpayer.

    A wag has just walked in. He wants to know if they are fire proof. Hahaha.

    Just to reiterate the point to NZDF, Key and the other warmongers. This is no different than gearing up muslim soldiers to kill the infidels.

    Upper Hutt • Since Jun 2007 • 1590 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole, in reply to Ross Mason,

    Funded by you the taxpayer.

    No, they're not. Read that article carefully.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    Do we have laws and practices in NZ about separation of church and state?

    No, but we do have the Human Rights Act 1993, which lists amongst the prohibited grounds for discrimination: ethical belief, which means the lack of a religious belief, whether in respect of a particular religion or religions or all religions.
    So it's actually outright illegal to refuse to hire someone because they're an atheist, as well as because they aren't.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

  • Ross Mason, in reply to Matthew Poole,

    Funded by you the taxpayer.

    No, they’re not. Read that article carefully.

    GAH!!!!!!! And I remember reading that first time through that now too!!!! But as far as comfort goes, I would be cursing and swearing for allowing myself to be in such a position where a book (!) is alleged to be of some use.

    Apols on that particular important fact.

    Upper Hutt • Since Jun 2007 • 1590 posts Report Reply

  • Martin Lindberg, in reply to Ross Mason,

    Like. Wow “In moments of crisis, pulling out a Bible can provide our service men and women with reassurance and strength, he said.”

    We had those when I was in the armed forces. The ones we had didn't have that waterproof paper, which was lucky, because then we wouldn't have been able to use hem for:

    a. kindling
    b. toilet paper (in moments of true crisis)

    true story.

    Stockholm • Since Jul 2009 • 802 posts Report Reply

  • WaterDragon,

    Yep, they are an abomination unto the lord. Some years back, the EEO unit at the State Services Commission commissioned a publication about psychometric testing. I'm afraid I just can't recall the name of the psychologist-author. She concluded that their utility as a means of job choice was shonky, lacked reliability and validity and merely reinforced existing personal prejudices.In short, people could feel virtuous about discriminatory behaviour because it was "scientific" (not her words,) So when I heard about it being used again of late, I had a nasty suspicion that the ghost of all the discriminatory employment practices that we thought had gone the way of all flesh was back and making life miserable for various people who deserved better.

    Behind you • Since Jul 2011 • 79 posts Report Reply

  • Geoff Lealand, in reply to Martin Lindberg,

    Rapidly flipping past the commandment

    Thou shall not kill?

    Screen & Media Studies, U… • Since Oct 2007 • 2562 posts Report Reply

  • Rich Lock, in reply to Ross Mason,

    In moments of crisis, pulling out a Bible can provide our service men and women with reassurance and strength

    It would depend on how absorbent the pages are, surely?

    ETA: beaten by Martin. Although I read a story from a PoW in Korea who was asked if his bible provided comfort when he was in the camp. Yes, he said. Charcoal from the pages helped bung him and his mates up when they all had dysentry.

    back in the mother countr… • Since Feb 2007 • 2728 posts Report Reply

  • Caleb D'Anvers, in reply to Danielle,

    LOL. No, Danielle, it wasn't you! Actually, this would have been around 2000, early 2001 at the latest, so you might not have been around at that point. And in any case it was a Department (That Shall Not Be Named) that you were fortunate enough never to work in ...

    So there you go: a cast iron alibi! :)

    London SE16 • Since Mar 2008 • 482 posts Report Reply

  • Caleb D'Anvers, in reply to Ross Mason,

    But as far as comfort goes, I would be cursing and swearing for allowing myself to be in such a position where a book (!) is alleged to be of some use.

    So you're not down with this kind of thing?

    The camp library is yours - Read to win the war
    You will find popular books for fighting men in the recreational buildings and at other points in this camp. Free. No red tape. Open every day. Good reading will help you advance. Library War Service, American Library Association [1917].

    London SE16 • Since Mar 2008 • 482 posts Report Reply

First ←Older Page 1 3 4 5 6 7 Newer→ Last

Post your response…

Please sign in using your Public Address credentials…

Login

You may also create an account or retrieve your password.