Hard News: The positive option of Red Peak
171 Responses
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Matthew Hooton, in reply to
Read the link at the top of Russell's post.
It explains the Maori and European (British) aspects of Red Peak.Has even a single Maori leader publicly supported Red Peak and agreed with the "Maori aspects" of it, or has this Maori story just been made up by liberal Pakeha from Grey Lynn and Aro Valley working in the design industry?
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Joe Wylie, in reply to
Has even a single Maori leader publicly supported Red Peak and agreed with the "Maori aspects" of it, or has this Maori story just been made up by liberal Pakeha from Grey Lynn and Aro Valley working in the design industry?
You're seriously saying that it's necessary to engage a rent-a-kaumatua in order to creatively reference the concept of Rangi and Papa in a very simplified form? What you appear to be preaching is plain old cultural apartheid.
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David Hood, in reply to
The Maori party voted for it to be added to the referendum, or do you not count actually voting to add it as support of Maori leaders?
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Idiot/Savant chimes in on the politics.
the Greens have consistently supported the flag process from the beginning (while trying to improve it, as is their way).
That's obviously not Labour's position. Big deal. They're different parties, so they disagree. And if Labour were adults, they'd accept that and move on to talking about how they can work together on the huge areas of political ground where they do agree. The fact that they can't, and that they're still demanding absolute subservience from their potential partners, is exactly why they're unfit to be in government. Because if you can't handle your party relationships in opposition, you're sure as shit not going to be able to do it when in office.
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Danyl sees an upside.
One of the defining moments in John Key’s rise to popularity as opposition leader was when he made a deal with Helen Clark to support the Bradford smacking amendment. Key ‘rescued’ Clark, much to the outrage of National Party partisans, but he also transformed himself from an opposition leader to a potential Prime Minister. The public isn’t really interested in politicians yelling nonsense at each other.
...
The Greens ‘did’ something, which is hard to do in opposition and some persuadable voters will give them points for it. -
Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
The Maori party voted for it to be added to the referendum, or do you not count actually voting to add it as support of Maori leaders?
With over 100 Iwi I'd wager that the Maori Party had no time to consult them all . Maybe they tried a straw poll.
Iwi of NZ. Glorious Individual Maori Iwi. So no, support by the Maori party doesn't carry the weight you may think it does within the context. It just carries National over the threshold every time they are needed. -
The Greens ‘did’ something, which is hard to do in opposition
That’s a bold spin.
A flag designer who dipped out on the shortlist claims to have conned the Red Peak petition, signing up as broadcasters Mike Hosking, Duncan Garner and Paul Henry and NZ First leader Winston Peters.
Grant McLachlan has provided evidence to prove his claim, with video footage showing him repeatedly signing up as himself and the four household names.
[…]
In a stunt designed to undermine the petition, Mr McLachlan said he signed up 12 times before adding Garner, Henry, Hosking and Mr Peters to the petition.
Red Peak will cost $380,000 to go on ballot
The inclusion of Red Peak would cost another $380,000, with the development and testing of changes to the vote processing system set to cost $100,000.
Redesigning, reprinting and retranslating materials about enrolment and voting that referenced four voting options would cost $280,000.
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linger, in reply to
Which makes it easier to interpret the result as partly Red Pique
with the design signifying a middle digit, uplifted high -
Steve Barnes, in reply to
Redesigning, reprinting and retranslating materials about enrolment and voting that referenced four voting options would cost $280,000.
See what happens when you rush things?.
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chris, in reply to
I'm totally feeling that Linger. Stacy Kirk takes things to the 6th ray:
While my dislike for Red Peak runs about as deep as the tectonic plates that don't form the supposed story behind the flag, including it in the referendum was the right decision.
Democracy does sometimes win. And it wins when people take it seriously.
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chris, in reply to
I see what happens when a thing that doesn’t have potential to save money by most probably eliminating the need for a second referendum is rushed on the basis that it’s easier for people to get behind a colourful image than a reconfiguration of approach.
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Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
John keys support of the labour party's Priministers - Green Party - privet bill from one of its MPs, is different enough to be ignored as a comparison
And I'm still trying to see where Labour MP's are trashing the Greens that apparently everything in The Herald says they are doing and now Savant's decided some commenter in a paper has defined Labours position which is actually different to the Greens and always has been. Their common ground was the mutual support of calling for what the people of NZ wanted. Save money ask if we want change. Greens changed their mind and saw fit to advise Labour. As simple as that.
Shit stirring is soo much better in the Herald. -
Joe Wylie, in reply to
Shit stirring is soo much better in the Herald.
From the Herald's recent fawning editorial:
"But at least John Key had a twinkle in his eye when he did an about-face on Red Peak"
Someone appears to have substituted "twinkle in his eye" for "hair up his arse". -
simon g, in reply to
I’m still trying to see where Labour MP’s are trashing the Greens
http://www.inthehouse.co.nz/video/39828
Labour's position is clear. It is now the same as National and the Greens. Because that's how they voted.
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chris, in reply to
"Every year the same four things! I'm mighty tired of those old things! I want something NEW to come down!"
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Steve Barnes, in reply to
Labour's position is clear. It is now the same as National and the Greens. Because that's how they voted.
That video must be wrong then because that is not what it says.
Labour's position has always been Yes/No vote first, the only sensible approach. National's way is just bollocks and the Greens have backed bollocks. -
Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
Labour's position is clear.
I know. I'll see your Trevor Mallard and raise you one Andrew Little.
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It has just occurred to me that Mr. Key identifies with flags, in fact I think he truly wants to be one.
He hoists himself up high and flips and flops as the wind blows.
Is this the standard to which he aspires?. -
Sacha, in reply to
Labour's position is clear.
at last!
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The more flag options to vote for the more people there will be who's first option won't be chosen.
Probably they're more likely to say no on the final change/keep the flag option as their preference isn't on the ballot.
I can't see a flag change occurring. This has been a stuff up from the get go.
Key can talk the talk but as a capable "doer" I have my doubts.
His Government is sclerotic and Brezhnevian.
Not a single Gov surplus and a metric shit ton of extra debt, an indebted homeless generation coming through whilst he worries about our flag? Facile and aimless moves from a smartarse banker.
I don't think the history books when written will be full of praise. -
Sacha, in reply to
I can't see a flag change occurring.
Never a realistic prospect.
This has been a stuff up from the get go.
Depends what you think the intent was. Seen much discusssion about housing, jobs or the exchange rate lately?
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linger, in reply to
If they're at all competent, they should have foreseen the main diversion would be during the time leading up to the referenda, so ... call me a suspicious bastard, but I can't help wondering, what new mess would they be attempting to divert attention from now?
You see, I'm not sure it's worth the effort just to get us to ignore the existing problems. In the absence of longer-term investigative journalism, those issues are not necessarily going to get media attention; and the rugby would be enough of a diversion by itself, you'd think. -
Sacha, in reply to
Beneficiaries breeding, redux. Can never have too many distractions on the go. Otherwise TPP might get more coverage.
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Tom Semmens, in reply to
I think eugenics has never strayed to far from core National party beliefs, it kinda went out of fashion after that unfortunate business in Europe in the 1940s but they’ve never really quite let it go.
Perhaps it's another area for fruitful cooperation with the Greens, after all they think there are to many humans. A nice bit of authoritarian population culling for the good of the planet and society. James Shaw will be all over it.
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Berinthia Binnie, in reply to
That should sit nicely with what John Key Inc. wants.
Who recalls the fabulous Freudian slip last election when Key celebrated the fact that NZ was a “Multi-National Country” rather than multi-cultural?
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