Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: The positive option of Red Peak

171 Responses

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  • Dinah Dunavan, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    +1. I feel the whole Red Peak saga has been an exercise in mass manipulation. I wouldn't have selected it from the short list. I get the feeling that we're supposed to think that getting it onto the votting papers is a 'win'.

    Dunedin • Since Jun 2008 • 186 posts Report Reply

  • simon g, in reply to Dinah Dunavan,

    I feel the whole Red Peak saga has been an exercise in mass manipulation.

    Who by? Toby Manhire Inc?

    In a world where corporate mass manipulation is coming out of our ears, this was anything but.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1330 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Daniel Wilton,

    Attachment

    Has anyone asked what they are going to do with the 1.7 million pieces of paper that have been printed for the referendum.

    Pulp the lot!
    They'll want to print the next run on sustainably retrieved swamp kauri any way...

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7950 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to ,

    I know bugger all about applied politics.

    I think it involves liberal smearings of tar and feathers...

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7950 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to ,

    Its ironic, that the opposition didn’t take a less is more better design approach, and do absolutely nothing. The national party should have been let to hover itself down a black hole over this.

    You would think so. They can't seem to resist the prospect of publicity, even the bad sort.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • izogi, in reply to Dinah Dunavan,

    I feel the whole Red Peak saga has been an exercise in mass manipulation. I wouldn’t have selected it from the short list. I get the feeling that we’re supposed to think that getting it onto the votting papers is a ‘win’.

    Early on I wasn’t averse to debating and possibly changing the flag, but after all this I feel the entire flag selection process has been an exercise in politically motivated cronyism, long before the latest development. That may not be true, but with the way the whole thing’s been conducted, helped by the PM not being able to shut up about his own preferences, it’s created a perception that everyone was simply going to be asked “which rendition of the PM’s favourite silver fern do you like most for the national marketing logo?”

    The method for adding Red Peak is what it is, but so many people rallied around it as a direct consequence of the mess that preceeded it. Apart from giving voters another choice which is less of a corporate logo and at least resolving an argument that everyone’s been wasting lots of effort on (I hope), I’m struggling to imagine how it’s made things any worse.

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 1141 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to ,

    they deserve that.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • Ben Austin,

    I think I might put Red Peak at first preference, if just that it is less awful than the other four, no disrespect to the designers intended. I am a little tempted to spoil my ballot, to send some sort of signal, but then on the other hand, this kind of signal is usually ignored at best.

    Come next year, I don't see myself voting for any of the five over the current. Ask me again when we become a republic.

    London • Since Nov 2006 • 1027 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace,

    Newsworthy (TV3) has created a Red Peak alphabet

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3226 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca,

    So, how many of you have changed from Hypno flag to Red Peak Flag ? That should sit nicely with what John Key Inc. wants. Breaking up the Hypno Flag momentum should bring Johnny's silver fern right through the middle. If in doubt ,get any opposition to National squabbling again.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen, in reply to chris,

    your existing T-shirt

    The T-shirt analogy is false.

    With the T-shirt you are the only person wearing it, you are not deciding for the entire population which T-shirt they will wear.

    With the T-shirt you are spending your personal income not the income of the entire country.

    Bad analogy is bad.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4460 posts Report Reply

  • izogi, in reply to Sofie Bribiesca,

    Breaking up the Hypno Flag momentum should bring Johnny’s silver fern right through the middle.

    Wouldn’t that depend on how people rank their choices in the preferential vote? If everyone who ranks either flag first ranks the other immediately after (possibly not a reliable assumption), then all of those votes flood to the other one as soon as either is eliminated.

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 1141 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen, in reply to Hilary Stace,

    Do we really need just one?

    Nope. But apparently because that was the way it was done 500 years ago we have to do it that way now.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4460 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    That surely is a flawed argument. What about the law of nature that change is the only constant?

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3226 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen,

    You know what I'd really like to see at this point. Someone, perhaps a political party, perhaps simply someone with some money, anyway someone get say a dozen of the top design/artist gurus to come up with say 10 different flag designs and just throw them out there for the public to look at.

    My bet it that 10 such designs would be very obviously better than 35 of the 40 on the long list.

    I'd also really really like it if people stopped thinking as if it was the 1500s and you needed a simple flag that was recognisable from both sides from across a 1000m battle field or over 5000m of sea. Because it is 2015 now!

    But that's just me.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4460 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen, in reply to Hilary Stace,

    What about the law of nature that change is the only constant?

    Are you suggesting a flag that evolves over time, printed on some kind of intelligent fabric that alters colour and shape with seasons ...

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4460 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    What a good idea

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3226 posts Report Reply

  • linger, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    A national mood crystal? (Goes all black when the All Blacks lose...)

    ... Looking over Carol Green's long list linked to by Lilith upthread, there were at least 10 designs already submitted that were

    very obviously better than 35 of the 40 on the long list

    !

    Tokyo • Since Apr 2007 • 1942 posts Report Reply

  • mpledger, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    <q>

    What about the law of nature that change is the only constant?

    Are you suggesting a flag that evolves over time, printed on some kind of intelligent fabric that alters colour and shape with seasons …
    </q>

    I still think we should have a flag made by Lenticular printing
    ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenticular_printing )
    that changes as it moves in the wind.

    Super cool for the 21rst century.

    Since Oct 2012 • 97 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Sofie Bribiesca,

    The Sting...

    That should sit nicely with what John Key Inc. wants

    I know...
    ...it's the worry that us gaming the system has been taken into consideration by their gaming of the system - the looong con!
    Oh what to do?
    Woe ist moi...

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7950 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to mpledger,

    ...a flag made by Lenticular printing

    I get it!
    A pencil case flag for the easily 'lead'?

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7950 posts Report Reply

  • Sue,

    nope, nope, nope.

    If you subscribe to the theory that a flag defines a nation

    Are we a bicultural society or are we a multicultural society?
    are we a colonial society or are we postcolonial?
    are we something else?

    i don't know, i don't know enough to know. I know there are very wise people out there who study and think about things like this where are their voices in the flag change?

    while red peak might be the triumph of social media while i might even like it, i think giving it my vote deny's our country a proper sit down & discussion about who we are, and what that means. Then how that could be defined in a flag.

    The nationwide engagement programme never had space for this so i'll be voting no change, anything else (even if i like it) is a bit of a waste of time

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 527 posts Report Reply

  • chris, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    The T-shirt analogy is false.

    With the T-shirt you are the only person wearing it, you are not deciding for the entire population which T-shirt they will wear.

    With the T-shirt you are spending your personal income not the income of the entire country.

    Bad analogy is bad.

    I did what I could within George’s frame of reference to correct his misinterpretation of Labour’s proposed selection process, which I feel is important and has been widely misrepresented and misunderstood. ‘You’ can be singular or plural, there was no mention of any financial transaction and it’s not uncommon to use the singular to refer to items in a uniform:

    The All Blacks jersey for the 2015 Rugby World Cup pays homage to the ‘Originals’ All Blacks team, but is the most technologically advanced yet, maker adidas says.

    An alternative interpretation of this sentence could equate to a very chilly time indeed for the bulk of our lads.

    Mawkland • Since Jan 2010 • 1302 posts Report Reply

  • william blake, in reply to Sue,

    I think these are some of the questions that need to be acknowledged in the debate over a new flag.

    Constitutionally NZ/Aotearoa is bi cultural, composed of tangata whenua and manuhiri. And given that this constitutional fact is disputed and dishonoured I would say we aren't yet post colonial.

    Since Mar 2010 • 380 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

    Why can't manuhiri be multicultural? Come to that, why can't tangata whenua be multicultural - because there are many individuals who have heritage other than Maori and British?

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

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