Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: The positive option of Red Peak

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  • Richard Grevers, in reply to Steve Barnes,

    Labour’s position has always been Yes/No vote first, the only sensible approach.

    Au contraire, how can you have a meaningful vote on "do you want to change the flag?" if there's no context of what it would change to? I would change it to some designs, I wouldn't to others. I wrote thus to Andrew Little, but got the usual formula reply.
    What matters is that we have preferential voting - although preferential voting with blocks would be even better (I don' think this has ever been used in any electoral system, coming more from the occupy movement. Any candidate would have to outscore the number of votes against it to still be live. - Whih might have given us a single referendum, as the no-changers could have voted against every option.

    New Plymouth • Since Jul 2011 • 143 posts Report Reply

  • stever@cs.waikato.ac.nz, in reply to Richard Grevers,

    Well...think back to 1992 and the MMP referendum...

    "Question One in the 1992 Referendum
    The first question asked voters if they wished to retain FPP or change electoral systems."

    Compare with

    "The first question would ask voters if they wished to retain the flag or change it."

    Hamilton • Since Nov 2006 • 73 posts Report Reply

  • chris, in reply to Richard Grevers,

    Labour’s proposal.

    Andrew Little said if the answer was no, then the money set aside for the 2nd referendum won't be spent.

    If it's yes, then the winner of the five designs will go up against the current flag early next year.

    Mawkland • Since Jan 2010 • 1302 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to Richard Grevers,

    Au contraire, how can you have a meaningful vote on “do you want to change the flag?” if there’s no context of what it would change to?

    The context is self explanatory... Do you want to change the flag? means changing it to something other than the existing one... simple.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Alfie,

    Dunedin • Since May 2014 • 1437 posts Report Reply

  • linger, in reply to Alfie,

    To extend the analogy: the PM would then spend a ludicrous amount of time campaigning for his own personal preference (on the right, of course); and there would be a late additional option (after enough NZers had questioned whether this constituted a sober way of driving public debate, let alone a country) of driving really fast, but in a zigzag pattern.

    Tokyo • Since Apr 2007 • 1942 posts Report Reply

  • Alfie, in reply to linger,

    To extend the analogy: the PM would then spend a ludicrous amount of time campaigning for his own personal preference...

    Blue cars drive on the right, red cars drive on the left?

    Dunedin • Since May 2014 • 1437 posts Report Reply

  • linger, in reply to Alfie,

    Either way, it's gonna be a bloody mess...

    Tokyo • Since Apr 2007 • 1942 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz, in reply to Alfie,

    Attachment

    It's taken me an age to get anywhere since they brought in that "red car gives way rule" a couple of years ago.

    I'm still saving to buy a green car.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic,

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5441 posts Report Reply

  • Alfie,

    An OIA request by a private citizen reveals that Key texted Ritchie McCaw prior to the latter's backing of Key's call for a silver fern flag. The Herald duly reports...

    Yo Rich m8, its JK ;-) chk out my cool flg vid on the FB. Go ABs!

    But no, that's not actually what he said. The exact content of the text message is lost to history after Mr Key deleted the text message.

    Does anyone actually refer to "The Facebook"? And was that prior to Key being made aware that he was not allowed to delete texts? Oh wait... Wayne Eagleson explains.

    there were a number of text messages between Mr Key and Mr McCaw and it was unclear whether they would be classed as "official information".

    "Most were of a general nature (and not necessarily as Prime Minister) such as text messages from the Prime Minister stating 'good game'."

    So Key wasn't wearing his PM's hat again. Maybe he keeps it in a special box in the corner, for those odd times when affairs of state arise.

    The response to Ms Coleman's Official Information Act request also revealed the designer of two of the four-strong shortlist flags had lobbied Mr Key in recent years. It revealed Kyle Lockwood sent Mr Key versions of the flag which appeared in the shortlist, and fern lapel pins.

    There ain't nothing like opening up those direct lines of communication, eh.

    Dunedin • Since May 2014 • 1437 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    Honestly, who, these days, deletes TXTs from their phone? They don't take up much room so the only reason would be, I believe, to hide something.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Alfie,

    Matt Nippert - Flag process: Was it a spin job?

    Nearly a third of public submissions to the Government's flag consideration panel, all of them critical of the process and supporting the current ensign, were ignored in official reports and advertisements purporting to show public opinion.

    Dunedin • Since May 2014 • 1437 posts Report Reply

  • Ross Mason,

    Attachment

    THE FLAG VOTE IS OUT. THE FLAG VOTE IS OUT.
    THE FLAG VOTE IS OUT. THE FLAG VOTE IS OUT.

    It’s……
    Something unexpected….

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/the-flag-debate/75026794/live-new-zealand-flag-referendum-result

    Upper Hutt • Since Jun 2007 • 1590 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Informal (protest) votes came 3rd.
    1 in 7 current New Zealanders chose the top option.

    no realistic chance of change. Aussies get a free pass to beat us to it (thanks Johnboy). #meh

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • izogi, in reply to Sacha,

    1 in 7 current New Zealanders chose the top option.

    Even a figure that high depends on interpretation, given it took 4 counts to reach that many. Anyone who ranked this option anything but 5th is counted in that final number.

    Also, voters were asked to rank their preferences between the options provided. They weren’t asked if they preferred any of them more than the current flag.

    I’m figuring the second referendum's result will probably correlate with its turnout. (Maybe this alternative will win if there’s a low turnout.) Still, it’s risky to make assumptions about why anyone votes the way they do, though. Like an election, a referendum only counts votes, not reasons.

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 1141 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to izogi,

    True. Note that I was counting the whole population, not just registered voters. I figure that may even out the factors you identify.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell, in reply to izogi,

    Not quite, everyone who voted for the runner up before the winner is in the 49.5% number

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2622 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca,

    By hook or crook, The faux flag gets all the advertising . Saatchi & Saatchi would be proud, Julie Christie must be.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    ...and in breaking news the All Blacks© have dumped their Coke© sponsorship, with Pepsi© the new flavour of the moment...
    They had a chance to do something useful by backing away from the Sugar Barons but just changed sugar-daddies instead.

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7950 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    just changed sugar-daddies instead.

    Yes, it seem everyone's a hooker these days.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

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