Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: The March for Democracy

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  • Joe Wylie,

    Oh, don't be ridicolous, Joe would never say something that causes offence.
    (Kindly navigate to the top of the next page for his response.)
    I did say I would drop it, didn't I? Nice to see I get called out anyway.

    Good morning Giovanni. That's right, it's the previous time you managed to get right up my nose. In the interests of promoting a degree of understanding, please consider that you know very little about me. Where I happen to live a number of my neighbours are blessed with psychiatric issues. Most of them are very nice people, but there are incidents, sometimes involving late-night ambulance callouts. More often it's pretty low-level stuff, and as it's something that the community is expected to wear it helps to be able to laugh. If you're offended by the way the attitude I've developed has coloured my views then I'm sorry, but I'm not apologising for biting back when you attempt to throw your weight around. If it were your blog, and I was your guest, no problem, but as far as I'm aware that's not the case here.

    Thanks to all who expressed kind thoughts, along with a degree of tolerance that I probably don't deserve. As Russell once said, when it comes to being a nice guy, Ian Dalziel pretty much wrote the book. Would that I could bring such a large and generous mind to the party. Thanks also to Hilary for putting it so well - no, it really isn't worth it. I was a lot harsher than necessary towards you in a post here a while back, and you were remarkably tolerant. Thanks for that.

    For the meantime, all the best to all of you.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4591 posts Report Reply

  • Sam F,

    For the meantime, all the best to all of you.

    This sounds rather too much like a 'signing off' comment to me - say it ain't so, or at very least not permanently. I enjoy your comments along with those of Gio and Ian and... well, because there are too many to list I'll say that hardly ever have I regretted reading anyone's posts on this site, with the exception of the few easily identifiable professional squabblers/trolls.

    For the record I don't think Gio's comment was particularly rude, and Ian seemed uncomfortable with the attitudes being expressed (regarding the 9/11 demolition argument) a fair bit earlier on than that anyway. Perhaps he would have taken a spell regardless. I hope in time he returns.

    If that's an indication of your attention to detail and reality, avoid wiring.

    Andrew Clive: against the darker side of my nature, I have to endorse Tim Hannah's safety advisory quoted above.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1609 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Have to give credit for a sense of humour though.

    Personally i was hoping for a few plumbers or electricians to sign up.

    Heh

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19667 posts Report Reply

  • Sam F,

    Have to give credit for a sense of humour though.

    Oh wow, agreed. For some reason I didn't spot that as Andrew's contribution - thought it was a smart little dig by someone else...

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1609 posts Report Reply

  • Kerry Weston,

    I concreted a large post into the ground at the weekend, dug out some blackberry and read a book ... hmmm, kiwi enuff, ya reckon?

    @Joe: all the best to you and Ian too. FWIW, I've felt the tone has been a bit scratchy round here the last couple of months, dunno why, running up to xmas stress perhaps? It's interesting, tho, where the stress points are in an online community, somewhere at the intersection of huge freedom to communicate but without the body language clues :-)

    I look forward to your return.

    Manawatu • Since Jan 2008 • 494 posts Report Reply

  • Simon Grigg,

    I look forward to your return.

    Can I underline that. I've always gravitated to Joe and Ian's posts in a thread, reading them ahead of much of the page, if only for the smile the phraseology inevitably brings.

    Nobody on this forum has an incisive turn of phrase that matches Mr. Wylie (and there is some heavy competition herein).

    And Ian, yes. Miss you both big time already.

    Just another klong... • Since Nov 2006 • 3283 posts Report Reply

  • andrew clive,

    In the Swiss case i got it wrong about the minarets being used to broadcast prayers 5 times a day. Sorry folks.

    If they're not being used for broadcast purposes then i think RB is right about the posters being outlandish , depicting the minarets as missiles .

    auckland • Since Feb 2008 • 37 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    If they're not being used for broadcast purposes then i think RB is right about the posters being outlandish , depicting the minarets as missiles .

    Um, would it be within the realms of possibility that's it's "outlandish" to dog-whsitle that over a billion human beings are terrorists? 82% of Swiss are Christians (basically evenly divided between Roman Catholics and Swiss Reformed); and I think they'd take severe exception to being equated with terrorist groups like the IRA, or posters depicting the spires of churches as missiles.

    The rather sad irony is that Switzerland is a nation whose own history is marked by sectarian conflict that escalated into a civil war in 1847. With that fresh in everyone's mind, the Federal Constitution of 1848 guaranteed the equal treatment of both Catholics and Protestants in all cantons, regardless of which denomination formed a majority or controlled the canton government.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    If they're not being used for broadcast purposes then i think RB is right about the posters being outlandish , depicting the minarets as missiles .

    Even if they were, the sad irony of a country largely made up of Christians (who ring bells on Sunday morning, and other times) being concerned about a different religion making regular noises, would seem just a tad hypocritical.

    And y'know, the whole pushing several hundred thousand people into the terrorist box because of their religion.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • Simon Grigg,

    the sad irony of a country largely made up of Christians

    I think Juan Cole is rather good on all this:

    So Switzerland, after centuries of striving for civilization and enlightenment, has just about reached the same level of tolerance as that exhibited by a small Gulf Wahhabi country, the people of which were mostly Bedouins only a hundred years ago.

    The response to this in Indonesia is best described, as is much in this country, as confused. Both the government and the largest Islamic body, the NU have strongly condemned it, but in a land where Christianity counts for two of the officially accepted religions (Protestant and RC are regarded as separate faiths, and you legally have to profess to one of the 6..atheism is effectively illegal) it's increasingly hard to build a church...planning and other barriers are being used to prevent construction and some local government have torn churches down for breaches of recently written or re-written by-law, thus enforcing a de-facto ban on such, this having met with a loud silence from central government for reasons of political expediency, not wishing to offend an small but noisy radical minority.

    The NU has asked followers not to overreact, and in particular, not to attack Swiss interests, which is more or less seen as a call to arms to do exactly that.

    Like the recent flurry to attack Malaysia over a TV ad which allegedly used an Indonesian song, these things come and go in the nation.

    82% of Swiss are Christians

    Just to be picky, 27% of the nation are said to be atheist or agnostic, which, if true, puts the Christian percentage at 68-69%

    Just another klong... • Since Nov 2006 • 3283 posts Report Reply

  • Christopher Dempsey,

    Yet PAS bloggers try & convince themselves that there views represent majority widespread public opinion. They don't! Anyone who doesn't agree with PAS status quo on any of the above is ridiculed & condemned with sarcasm.Widespread public opinion is condemned here. PAS doesn't care as its anti democratic.

    Is it me or does the general 'mob' not have any sense of irony?

    Parnell / Tamaki-Auckland… • Since Sep 2008 • 659 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    You've perhaps missed the charms of this later instalment of whining from the oppressed.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19667 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

    I have no problem with minarets in Wellington. They might drown out Benjamin Easton's ranting up at the MoJ.

    A few stonings would be good for laffs, even.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • Just thinking,

    Ah yes the Letters of Bruce to the Kevins clearly states the use of the biblical alkathene pipe in cases of theft.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10616286

    Putaringamotu • Since Apr 2009 • 1158 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    Hide and his Mates Intend to Steal 1/3 of New Zealand
    This is so wrong I can't let it slide.
    Not only is the Dancing Fool trying to stack the vote with the "Landed Gentry" and the change in the method of voting, from STV to FPP (locked in for 2 elections) He also wants all the assets.

    When it comes to our public assets, then we see why Minister Hide wants less democracy in Auckland. Hide will appoint the initial directors to the boards that control our water, transport and other utilities.

    Maybe it's time for us to march or, at least, pay attention to what is happening to our largest City. This is not just about Auckland, this is the thin end of the wedge.
    Time to stand up and be counted.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Ben McNicoll,

    I agree, this is one of the few cases where mass protest action could actually influence the outcome...

    Scare Key and his backers with the prospect of years in the opposition wilderness should this bill be passed in it's current form.

    Grey Lynn • Since May 2007 • 115 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    Well, let's organise then. Anybody know what the schedule is for the bill?

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • Ben McNicoll,

    I'm a novice at this, but I can't seem to find (short of reading the full text of all 3 bills) a reference to this in the legislation...

    http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ/PB/Legislation/Bills/Default.htm?search=42432935

    Grey Lynn • Since May 2007 • 115 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    Anybody know what the schedule is for the bill?

    1.00 am, Monday 21st December, Muttering behind bike sheds behind Beehive, passing of wads of used twenties in brown paper envelopes.
    1.15 am Sneak into Debating Chamber, pass bill under extreme urgency.
    1.20 am. Borrow Bollards Ute and drive to Auckland to load up on "Assets"
    10.30 am. Start on the piss.
    11.30 pm. Dance under OUR stars.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    Thought I'd drag this ol' thread back up for a few reasons.
    Here's the 911th reason.
    Who would of thought the likes of Ron Paul would want people to know about this?.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    Yep, Ron Paul is a Truther from way back.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    Oh the irony of dismissing revelations as "truthiness"
    I would rather, as I always try to do, apply Occam's Razor.
    Which is more likely?
    1. A mad guy, who happened to work for the CIA for a while, did it from a cave in Afghanistan.
    2. Israel did it to put all the balls in their basket. With help from the CIA & FBI
    3. Bush did it so he could finish his Daddy's war. With help from the CIA & FBI
    4. The landlord did it for the insurance. With help from the CIA & FBI
    5. The CIA acted alone.
    6. A bunch of guys from Saudi Arabia trained in secret for months and just by chance NORAD shut down their defences on the day they decided to act and within an hour or two the FBI & the CIA found all the evidence to prove Osama Bin Laden was behind it and just happened to be hiding in a country the USA had, merely coincidentally, been wanting to put an OIL pipeline through for years.
    ?
    Of course, we all know the last scenario to be true.
    Who's the "Truther" now Gio ?.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    Sorry, I thought this was the bit where we all laughed at Ron Paul. Frankly I visit his site for the ads alone, they never disappoint.

    Btw, Steve, Truther is the name the Truthers give themselves, not a slur.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen Judd,

    Steve, in order for options 2, 3, 4 and 5 to be on a fair footing with 1 and 6, you need to add the equivalently far-fetched provisos, eg " and every US military officer has maintained their silence since" or " and in this instance the insurance companies were happy to pay the claim no questions asked" or "because when you want to start a war in one country the best way is a false flag operation that fingers another", and so on.

    I guess the most disappointing part of the "it's all the Jews' fault" explanation is it's so tiresomely unoriginal.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 3122 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    Like I've said before, I find both sides of this to be various shades of bullshite. There will always be agendas, either before or after such a horrendous act, that will be aided by nefarious explanations.
    Gio. My point was the abuse of the word "Truth" from both sides is, at least, disingenuous, the truth is just not known.
    Stephen.

    I guess the most disappointing part of the "it's all the Jews' fault" explanation is it's so tiresomely unoriginal.

    I couls paraphrase myself there, "the abuse of the term "it's all the Jews' fault" from both sides is, at least, disingenuous."
    Israel is not the poor downtrodden victim some like to claim, not only powerful in its own right but highly influential in American policy. Palestinians are Semites too but some can be convinced that "All Arabs are Fundamentalist Muslims" without realising what they've been suckered into for the sake of the greater God, oil.
    Anyway, I ain't here to preach, just voicing my discomfort.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

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