Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: The March for Democracy

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  • Andre Alessi,

    Funny, I keep hearing people talk about the New Moon. And then squealing and sighing. Maybe they're confused?

    Devonport, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 864 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Parks,

    It was the tone. Absolutely pointless if you had a differing opinion to others here, on the right for this man Gage to express his views. Attacking persons don't seem to solve much.

    Has anyone seriously questioned the right of Gage and co to express their opinion? You're unlikely to find a more liberal view on freedom of expression than mine - heck, I have no problem with Erving coming here and spewing his denial nonsense if some private organisation wants to support him - but it's the appropriateness of Te Papa hosting Gage that was the key objection, it seemed.

    As for attacking a person, it was Gage's arguments and some aspects of his rhetoric that was attacked; I didn't see any purely personal digs.

    Wellington • Since May 2007 • 1164 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Parks,

    Funny, I keep hearing people talk about the New Moon. And then squealing and sighing. Maybe they're confused?

    Haha!

    Anyway, the new moon is on Monday.

    Wellington • Since May 2007 • 1164 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    Ah. I'm not sure what you're getting at but I'll defer to your judgment - and please accept my apologies for lack of funny...

    Not at all Sam F, I'm complementing you for your keeping insync with the full moon mood thats professedly causing havoc to the tread funnys. I did see your funny, but contradicted it in the interests of political correctness gone mad.

    Insync, is an incredibly difficult word to spell.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4327 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Engineers and Architects might be only that, but I'd like both to have opinions on buildings seeing as a building is pretty much fucked without them

    Um, OK... so people claiming professional expertise should, to take one relatively trivial example cited up thread, know what a pyroclastic flow is -- and that it doesn't happen to burning buildings?

    One useful thing I got out of the whole thread was the desire to borrow from the library and re-read, Deborah Lipstadt's History on Trial: My Day in Court with David Irving. She puts a compelling case that the most dangerous thing about Irving's holocaust denial is that it was wrapped it up in his authority as a published historian of World War II. It took years, and the effort of many people to painstakingly expose his distortions and outright fabrications regarding the Holocaust in a forum where he had to answer for them. And how often did Iriving excuse his lies and contradiction -- his poisonous anti-semitism and links with extreme far-right groups -- by saying he was just "asking questions" and being victimised by his enemies who profited from the big lie?

    At the end of 'Irving v. Penguin Books & Lipstadt', the plaintiff ended up with his reputation as a historian reduced to nothing. And so it should be, authority and expertise needs to be earned not just asserted.

    It's knowledge, bro -- and it doesn't matter whether you're a historian, architect or one of those "real" plumbers Mr. Curtis has wood for, REALITY IS NOT OPEN TO DEBATE.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Andre Alessi,

    Insync, is an incredibly difficult word to spell.

    I think you'll find it's spelled N'SYNC.

    Devonport, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 864 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle,

    It was the tone.

    Maybe I'm just a hard-faced old meanypants with a crappy douchebaggery-dar, but I re-read that thread this morning and was completely nonplussed. Was that mild little contretemps really worth holding a week-long thread-crossing grudge that comes screaming out of the wild blue yonder? Seriously, that way lies madness for a community like this one, peeps. Have it out at the time, or don't have it out at all.

    Moreover, Giovanni had spent quite a long time articulating his Gage-related arguments in his (linked, I believe?) blog post, so he wasn't 'trading on his status' so he didn't have to make an argument, or whatever Joe's theory was. Weak sauce.

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • LegBreak,

    @Steve P
    How is posting a Duran Duran video expected to ease the tension in the air?

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 1162 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    I think you'll find it's spelled N'SYNC.

    I was the Y that had me stifled. when my dictionaries wouldn't yield, I did my usual trick of using googles spell check facility. But even that was problematic, due to work butchery by boy bands, as you've pointed out.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4327 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle,

    How is posting a Duran Duran video expected to ease the tension in the air?

    Because laughing at Simon Le Bon is hugely relaxing!

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    This all reminds me of my teenaged years, at the Onetangi tavern on Waiheke, during the eighties. A scuffle would break out, tensions would rise, heavily tattooed men with large motorbikes would start drinking beer fast, then a series of gladiatorial displays would occur. Actually very frightening in hindsight.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4327 posts Report Reply

  • LegBreak,

    Not so sure Danielle.

    I had been battling with the Equinox Winds and the full moon, and was almost coping. Now I’m doing that battle with Duran Duran running around my head.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 1162 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Actually very frightening in hindsight.

    Even more frightening when the bastards didn't have their reflexes and depth perception dulled by alcohol poisoning, I submit. Much easier to deal with scary rough trade when they're doing the locomotion like this:

    Added bonus: Too hung over to remember why they wanted to pound on your arse in the first place.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Brent Jackson,

    Steven Crawford wrote:

    Insync, is an incredibly difficult word to spell.

    That is because it is not a word. "In synch" is what you were after (though it looks like "in sync" is now being used as well).

    HTH.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 615 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie,

    Was that mild little contretemps really worth holding a week-long thread-crossing grudge that comes screaming out of the wild blue yonder?

    It was enough to drive one of the best contributors this forum's had out of here for good, something I've only recently become aware of. You'll forgive me, Danielle, if I choose not to take your little homilies to heart. Like Giovanni, you probably have little idea of just how condescending your tone can be.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4591 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Parks,

    Oh for fuck's sake, Joe. You can sound the same, sometimes. I like Ian a lot, too. But Gio deserved some slack, if it was even true that he sounded a bit harsh (I don't think he did).

    Was that mild little contretemps really worth holding a week-long thread-crossing grudge that comes screaming out of the wild blue yonder?

    No.

    Wellington • Since May 2007 • 1164 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Parks,

    @Steve P
    How is posting a Duran Duran video expected to ease the tension in the air?

    Your mistake is in assuming I want to ease the tension.

    their reflexes

    Oh, you’re just asking for it...


    Wellington • Since May 2007 • 1164 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace,

    I think it is incredibly sad that this whole fallout is because someone came to New Zealand with a theory about something that happened on the other side of the world several years ago. Nice people have received hate mail, the reputations of public institutions are questioned, and former friends no longer talk. Is it really worth it?

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3203 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    Oh for fuck's sake, Joe. You can sound the same, sometimes.

    Oh, don't be ridicolous, Joe would never say something that causes offence.

    (Kindly navigate to the top of the next page for his response.)

    I did say I would drop it, didn't I? Nice to see I get called out anyway.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle,

    You'll forgive me, Danielle, if I choose not to take your little homilies to heart. Like Giovanni, you probably have little idea of just how condescending your tone can be.

    Dude, I know *exactly* how condescending my tone can be. I calibrate all my PAS posts extra specially using my Condescending-Homilies-Meter! I bought it on Amazon.

    (Incidentally, you're currently being a douche, but it's OK: I won't be snarking at you a week from now in some other thread. You're welcome.)

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    Nice people have received hate mail

    That they have!

    Is it really worth it?

    I'm on record claiming it's a serious issue, and should be treated as such. And it may be something that happened away from New Zealand several years ago, but so are many other atrocities.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace,

    But is it worth such destruction of relationships here?
    How about trying some restorative justice processes?

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3203 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace,

    Restorative justice requires an independent facilitator. Are there any Judges with some spare time out there?

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3203 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Some things re this and other current threads from someone who's been running online discussion for a while now and participating in them for a lot longer.

    1. It's just an internet discussion thread. There'll be another one tomorrow. I have perfectly civil real-life relations with people I might have argued with viciously at some time, or who have out-and-out abused me.

    2. If someone offends you, say so. Say, "hey, that was a bit much" or "I'm offended by that" or "that was unnecessary". If you think someone else has been treated rudely or unfairly, you can say that too.

    3. If someone says you've offended them, take that in good faith and with good grace. Acknowledge it. That doesn't mean you have to change your opinion on an issue.

    4. Places like this will always have a bias towards people who have strong prose styles and write strong, persuasive arguments citing facts and/or experience. It's just the way it is.

    5. That doesn't mean it's okay to bring out the big guns all the time. I still deploy the Words of Mass Destruction very occasionally (last time, it was Redbaiter and I was bored) but never actually on PAS.

    6. People of a different political persuasion who come here infrequently and preface whatever they have to say by slagging off the community of people who write here regularly will buy themselves an argument. They will also almost always switch to victim mode when that happens and act like their human rights are being flouted because someone disagrees with them or makes fun of them. There's little to be done about this.

    7. It's just an internet discussion thread. There'll be another one tomorrow.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22756 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    7. It's just an internet discussion thread. There'll be another one tomorrow.

    You obviously haven't seen the blueprints for my Doomsday Device.

    Ops, I said too much.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

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