Speaker by Various Artists

Hi Byron.

Carl Bromley here.

Great to see you are exercising your right to free speech!

May NZ protect that right for all, and not just for those with a particular political bent.

Personally my view is the right to criticize any person, religion, ideology, political party or policy, science or ideas ought to be entrenched in the law if our nation.

Would you agree Byron?

Regarding your article, I am concerned that you appear obsessed with plicating Lee Williams with the atrocities of March 15 2019, and infer sponsibility toward him for it.

You take his comment for people to stand up and do there bit dangerously out on context in my view, both in this article and your video from Auckland where you spoke.

This in my view looks purposeful and is incredibly irresponsible in my opinion.

It looks like you are purposefully seeking to incite and provoke a response from the public that could potentially be harmful.

Ironically it appears your behaviour is of the very elk that your infer Lee guilty of ie. Inciting and provocation with who knows what intent.

I am documenting you videos and statements as evidence of incitement should anything untoward happen to Lee or any person you are implicating with your rhetoric.

On a personal note, would you please identifify the ledged "hosts of numerous articles" that are alledgedly "anti Muslim" apparently linked to my social media blog.

Just for the record, i love people of all faiths or non-faiths, and i do opey disagree with a number of Islamic teachings, as Muslims opey disagree with many Christian teachings i hold.

However, Muslims and I would agree on many issues.

I have supported Muslims in their pain of particular issues over the years and am disposed to do so in the future.

Love transcends differences in belief Byron; and as Adults its possible to distinquish viewpoint from a value and love of a soul.

I love people regardless of view point, faith or not.

I even love people who hate me ( you might be one of those haters Byron, that i still love. You certainly do not convey love for your fellow man who hold different political views from yourself).

The nature and power of the love of Jesus whom i love and follow provides an ability to "love your enemies", a commandment Jesus gives his followers.

Do you love your enemies Byron?

Lastly, would you kindly define what YOU mean by "far right".

It seems to be a ad hominem term loosely bandied around to discredit, demean, and villinise any who have a alternate view.

I know Lee Williams well, i know Kyle Chapman well, and the picture you paint and how you portray and villify these people is very different, and warped from what i personally experience.

I know Lee has even personally offered to sit down with you for coffee, i believe on more than one occasion, and still would. Would you?

Do you not wish for peace?

Why would you not sit down as adults and talk?

Id be happy to meet also.

What would stop you?

Remember Byron, your socks stink too mate. You are far from perfect, and so am I. We are all human mate.

Awaiting your response.

Simcerely,

Carl Bromley.

Carl Bromley....this Carl Bromley?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/111426805/the-conservative-christians-who-believe-nz-has-gone-too-far-in-its-embrace-of-muslims

"In the days and weeks after the massacres, Carl Bromley, a pro-Trump, pro-gun pastor with the Life Connection Baptist Fellowship in Christchurch, was busy on social media.

His Facebook page filled with posts about attacks on Christians by Muslims in Nigeria (which he claims went ignored by the media), criticism of moves to tighten gun control, outrage at calls to drop the name of the Crusaders rugby team and numerous links to articles on an anti-Muslim conspiracy blog.

"Those who drive Christianity out of society are paving the way for Islam," he wrote."

The Royal Commission on the Christchurch Mosque Shootings in 2 pictures…

https://twitter.com/kumararepublic/status/1359376644058742786

And on a related note...

https://twitter.com/kumararepublic/status/1197863901724999680

Carl Bromley….this Carl Bromley?

Looks that way. Apparently he preaches unabashed disingenuousness.

I know Lee Williams well, i know Kyle Chapman well, and the picture you paint and how you portray and villify these people is very different, and warped from what i personally experience.

So what are they like when they're not being creepy racists and bigots? Do tell.

Hi Carl,

I’ll go through this point by point to try and avoid a comment longer than the actual article.

“Personally my view is the right to criticize any person, religion, ideology, political party or policy, science or ideas ought to be entrenched in the law if our nation.

Would you agree Byron?”

As you’re probably aware the Bill of Rights Act states “Everyone has the right to freedom of expression, including the freedom to seek, receive, and impart information and opinions of any kind in any form.” I’m in favour of that remaining “entrenched in the law” as you put it.

“I am concerned that you appear obsessed with [im]plicating Lee Williams with the atrocities of March 15 2019, and infer [re]sponsibility toward him for it.”

That’s your interpretation of my words rather than what I have said. I think it’s highly unlikely that the Christchurch shooter saw one of Lee’s videos, though we know he was radicalised by content on YouTube, Lee believes many of the same things the shooter did, but I don’t believe he had anything to do with the events of March 15 2019, unless the police knew something I don’t, cordoning off his street and sending armed officers to his house was probably overkill

“You take his comment for people to stand up and do there bit dangerously out on context in my view, both in this article and your video from Auckland where you spoke.”

Tell me this Carl, what is the right context to claim that Muslim’s are trying to out-breed Westerners and telling your audience to do their bit to “save your country from islamisation”?

“This in my view looks purposeful and is incredibly irresponsible in my opinion.”

The key words in that sentence are “in my view”

“It looks like you are purposefully seeking to incite and provoke a response from the public that could potentially be harmful.”

Yet you don’t believe it’s irresponsible of Lee to promote the far-right conspiracy about the the UN Migration Compact started by Martin Sellner, a man the Christchurch shooter donated to? or to promote the Great Replacement conspiracy that the shooter named his manifesto after?

“Ironically it appears your behaviour is of the very elk that your infer Lee guilty of ie. Inciting and provocation with who knows what intent.”

See above

“I am documenting you videos and statements as evidence of incitement should anything untoward happen to Lee or any person you are implicating with your rhetoric.”

No one is stopping you

“

On a personal note, would you please identifify the ledged “hosts of numerous articles” that are alledgedly “anti Muslim” apparently linked to my social media blog.”

I provide a citation in the text with a hyperlink to a Stuff article, I consider Stuff a reputable publication. I understand that you probably don’t (I’ve seen your video claiming all New Zealand journalists are “cultural Marxists”) but either way your qualm is with Stuff if you believe they have made an incorrect statement

“Just for the record, i love people of all faiths or non-faiths, and i do opey disagree with a number of Islamic teachings, as Muslims opey disagree with many Christian teachings i hold.

However, Muslims and I would agree on many issues.

I have supported Muslims in their pain of particular issues over the years and am disposed to do so in the future.

Love transcends differences in belief Byron; and as Adults its possible to distinquish viewpoint from a value and love of a soul.

I love people regardless of view point, faith or not.

I even love people who hate me ( you might be one of those haters Byron, that i still love. You certainly do not convey love for your fellow man who hold different political views from yourself).”

Do you believe Lee Williams conveys love for his fellow man who holds different political views from himself? This is someone who in the past has allowed my home address to be shared on his YouTube channel which resulted in numerous threats from his followers, he routinely uses school yard bullying style insults, he responded to this article by calling me a girly man or something like that, he has childish nicknames for journalists he doesn’t like e.g. “Paddy Goldenshower” it’s hard to take your statement seriously when you associate with this man

“The nature and power of the love of Jesus whom i love and follow provides an ability to “love your enemies”, a commandment Jesus gives his followers.

Do you love your enemies Byron?”

I don’t love my “enemies” and don’t hate them either, I actually feel sorry for Lee, the fact he stopped speaking to his brother because his brother said he’d be OK with his daughter marrying a Muslim man is genuinely sad, that he would allow his relationship with a family member to be compromised by his hatred for Muslims is tragic. Likewise I feel bad for Carol knowing her grandchildren are embarrassed by her.

“Lastly, would you kindly define what YOU mean by “far right”.

It seems to be a ad hominem term loosely bandied around to discredit, demean, and villinise any who have a alternate view.”

You must not be doing a good a job at “documenting” my videos as you think as I’ve covered this before (https://youtu.be/ZuN9paaHOG8?t=394)
The Merriam Webster directory definition of “the group of people who’s views are the most conservative” should be uncontroversial. Lee and yourself both supported the New Conservatives last year and now have your own microparty because the mainstream right-wing parties are not conservative enough for you. It only “villainies” you if lack the conviction of your beliefs and think being the most conservative makes you a villain

“I know Lee Williams well, i know Kyle Chapman well, and the picture you paint and how you portray and villify these people is very different, and warped from what i personally experience.”

Yes, you’re experience of Lee Williams is very different from mine- he has never hosted your private address allowing people to threaten you at your home, which he has done to me, he has never accused you of being part of nefarious plot to take over the Western world, which he he has accused every Muslim immigrant of. All I’ve said about Kyle Chapman in this article is that he is a former National Front leader so I don’t know what picture you think I’m painting, are you disputing the fact that he led that National Front?

“I know Lee has even personally offered to sit down with you for coffee, i believe on more than one occasion, and still would. Would you?”

No, I would not. When Lee first invited me to meet up I quoted the letter Bertrand Russell sent to Oswald Mosley when the latter requested they meet “I feel obliged to say that the emotional universes we inhabit are so distinct, and in deepest ways opposed, that nothing fruitful or sincere could ever emerge from association between us. I should like you to understand the intensity of this conviction on my part. It is not out of any attempt to be rude that I say this but because of all that I value in human experience and human achievement.”

I think discussion between people with opposing views can be fruitful, but what Lee and I have is not so much opposing views but opposing ideas of reality. Lee believes that the United Nations is run by an “unholy alliance” of “radical Islam” and “cultural Marxists” who have a plan to emasculate white men to allow non-whites to invade and subjugate the West. That’s just completely ludicrous.

“Do you not wish for peace?”

Yes. I also wish for justice- a mass grave is a very peaceful place, but that’s not the kind of peaceful outcome I want. I’m not sure if you’ve seen my videos about the inspiration the Christchurch shooter took from the perpetrators of the Bosnian genocide, I look at how anti-Muslim rhetoric (not dissimilar from the things Lee says in his videos) helped lead to the largest mass murder in Europe since the holocaust. We’ve seen the outcome of hate spreading unchallenged, even before the shooting here.

Why would you not sit down as adults and talk?”

I’ve addressed before why I won’t give views like the ones Lee expresses legitimacy by treating them as if they are worthy of debate:

“Id be happy to meet also.

What would stop you?”

No thanks. For pretty much the same reasons I won’t meet with Lee, not to mention that I don’t owe you my time and attention just because I’ve criticised things you and your mates have said.

“Remember Byron, your socks stink too mate. You are far from perfect, and so am I. We are all human mate.”

I’ve never said I’m flawless, but I’m pleased to be able to say I’ve never promoted the same conspiracy theories that were referenced in a mass shooters manifesto.

Hi Byron.

Thank you for a thorough reply.

Dont get me wrong, your time or presense is not somthing i think you 'owe' me nor your 'attention' somthing i covet. That's pretty narcissistic dont you think?

My value and love for you as a soul is because your are special lndeed; Christ died for your sin, but your not more extra special than anyone else; his blood was shed for you, me, Lee and every other person a like.

The invitation is sincere and open anytime Byron, i do not feel either flattered nor deflated by choice to accept or reject a genuine extention of good will. Communication and relationship resolve issues; lack thereof of fuel conflict.

Maybe you arevactually peace aversive and enjoy the conflict?

Remember, two wrongs nevet make a right and while you do the very things you accuse Lee of, you are not a better man for it. You are more subtle; Lee, like you and i is transparent.

I see you like to hide behind sophistry like your quote from Bertrand Russel.

It does in many cases provide a noble cover for cowardice in my view and feigns a heart that really does not seek real peace among his fellow man. Sad in my opinion. What kind of world does that aspire too?

Just curious on the 'Religious ideological' & nonoffence intended to anyone,

a) have you read the entire Quran?

b) is there anything in the Quran at all you would have an issue with in practice?

I have studied (not just read) the entires book, and i do have issues with a number of its teachings as Muslims also have issues with a number of New Testament teachings. Yet i still love Muslim people to be clear, as a different view point does not negate love (at least the love i know in Christ).

Your accusations against concerns that worry some seem to expose a significant naievity Byron.

Your a young man and I'll probably be dead in 20yrs or so, maybe sooner or later, but I wonder where you will be at and how happy you will be with the world that you are so passionate about seeing established in New Zealand - Aotearoa then?

I think your naievity will one day haunt you.

"Wisdom is justitified of her children".

...Apologies for early morning typos.

Great work, Byron. I wish more people would understand the link between these hate preachers and groups like Voices for Freedom or the Outdoors Party. This is such valuable background info for context. Will put the link up on FACT (Fight Against Conspiracy Theories) tomorrow!

Carl.......you are slime and ooze disingenuousness. Your own obsession for 'meeting' is this......you think having a chit chat that you end with 'well we agree to disagree' and 'my beliefs are different' makes your beliefs ok...........that's your goal, to excuse your ugly views, your damaging views and your attempts to influence others with your ugly views.
No one needs to meet, the internet is the perfect platform for discussion. Sadly from meeting people like Lee in person and having a different view to him makes him angry and aggressive.........and the old...'let's meet' routine has undertones of just that..........it's well known.

Lee's commenters call for Lee to be violent, Lee commonly makes vague 'tough guy comments' that have a violent theme.

You nor Lee control anybody, so a refusal to meet someone who you know to be unreachable and aggressive is pointless and your own attempts at drawing a 'manliness' issue around it is truly pathetic as if 'manliness' has anything to do with the conversation.

It would seem you and Lee are more concerned about your own perceived 'manliness' than anything here.
Byron is showing real signs of manliness by not being baited into your 'controlled conversation' and not being intimidated by two dirtbags that don't have the INTEGRITY to state their real gut ideologies and hide them behind a weak cover of PATRIOTISM.

NO ONE IS FOOLED BY YOU TWO, JUST BECAUSE YOU KNOW YOU CAN'T SAY WHAT YOU WANT OPENLY DOESN'T MEAN YOUR MESSAGE ISN'T BEING SPOKEN.

The “Great Replacement” theory as bel;ieved by the Christchurch terrorist is tantamount to volume 2 of the “Elders of Zion"…

I forgot to mention: there's freedom of speech, and then there's freedumb of speech.

Fuck Carl Bromley and his elk.

cannae trust a caribou.

(i) Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from social consequences of the content of your speech. You can say what you like; but you can still be shunned as a result.
(ii) Freedom of speech does not mean you have the right to use any particular platform without regard to its rules of use. You can say what you like; but you can still be banned and/or your content deleted as a result.
(iii) "it seems you are seeking to incite": Citation needed. What violent or unlawful action is being called for? Or are you just seeking to smear?

Byron the importance of what you are letting everyone know about is not for debating the likes of Carl Bromley. These people are rigid in their views and full of self righteous white male puffed-up-ness.
The importance of what you are talking about is in letting the rest of New Zealand community know who is living in our midst. Until we all call out these white supremacists for their behaviour they can continue to feel justified in their rigid and poisonous beliefs.
The persecution of people for the religion or skin colour or sexual preference is something that exists here and we all need to see it in the light of day and call it out – loudly and often.

...a bewilderbeest running with fake gnus...

That Vinny Eastwood is a piece of work...
stumbled on a live you tube of him soon after the Chchch massacre - he was crowing, and saying it was CGI, he was juggling about 12 conspiracy plates up in the air and all his 'followers' were egging each other on - a nest of vipers.

Hello ! A very patronising post from a Carl Bromley to a Byron Clark. Even came across as quite arrogant

And I thought it would have been self evident that Lee Williams ( Cross the Rubicon you-tube channel ) was a White Supremacist and an obvious racist. Do these White Supremacy channels have moderates. Obviously not. The comments left on these channels are very disturbing. So very anti Maori and anything related to Maori. It appears that Mr. Bromley is justifying his or as it appears his on going love affair with Williams.

I saw today that Williams has deleted his satirical or should I say hateful videos of the said Maori MP. And his work place apparently been notified of the filth and racism coming out of this man’s mouth. When word gets around and his colleagues get wind of this, would he not be embarrassed. Perhaps racism and hatred is part of his psyche and his narcissism. Good luck to Bromley if he wants to hang around scum.

Why should Byron have to meet this drop dead loose unit for. He is not normal. An immigrant putting our country down incessantly. Ungrateful sod. I am not against meeting anyone, but he would be the last person on earth I would like to meet.

Correct you in saying Lee Williams is aggressive and a nasty piece of work.
I can assure you Mr Bromley that the Paparoa group and many others will be keeping a very close eye on Lee Williams. A very very big mistake to make fun of the Maori MPs, the culture, the language, mimicking words, saying bro bro, the moko, haka and a lot,of things.

Enough is enough. We kiwis and Maoris will stand up to him.

Unsure how his own family put up with his behaviour. Let’s hope Lee Williams comes to his senses and integrates into the values of Aotearoa. The chances seem zero of that happening sadly.

Regards.

Lee Williams and Kyle Chapman are utter White Supremacists and racists of the highest order.
Well your experiences are yours and mine is mine.
Both are scum.

Hi my friend ! I signed the petition today to hopefully get rid of Lee Williams the White Supremacist Racist from the work force.

Hope we can get 5000 signatures by the end of the day.

Regards to you.

Hey Mr Ramone..........4696 as off the time of this post!

Lee is toast, we've all played a part in this with actions and words. Good on you for your efforts as well as Byron who has obviously been the driving force and pivot point

Why do you not show your real name? That is part of sign up?

Just a wee update to this thread.
Carl has a bad day.

Just a wee update to this thread.
Carl has a bad day.

"We need to beef up the police!"

[Police raid Carl's home & seize his guns & ammo.]

"NO! Not like that!"