Hard News: Narcissists and bullies
727 Responses
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Paul Campbell, in reply to
So why does it seem crazier to ask someone if they want to have sex with you than to try to deduce it from their clothes?
+1 indeed
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BenWilson, in reply to
I don’t like the hint of “victim Olympics” in it.
I'm sorry in hindsight that it came out like that, since my point was to actually question that very idea. I think it's great that there's finally so much anger about this kind of rape. Our societal reaction to notorious violent rapists, from which we draw our cues, has been applied to these offenders.
severity or longevity of harm doesn’t necessarily equate with the “severity” of the assault.
No, and that's true of practically all crime. Punishment is more closely tied to the severity of the assault. But the unforeseen-but-foreseeable consequences do weigh in - reckless driving causing death is more severe than reckless driving alone. Assault that causes death can be manslaughter or murder depending on the circumstances.
The consequences of rape are drawn out, well beyond a trial, if one ever happens, and they may not be obvious from the outside. I think that it's a tricky area for the law to be consistent about, emotional harm is often not given much credence against the more easily seen harms, in the case of other crimes.
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Dismal Soyanz, in reply to
Once you accept that rapists do not wander around with horns and 666 tattooed on their foreheads, you realise that they are a product of their social environment. This in turn implies the social norms need adjusting. For many, especially the privileged males, this is a challenge to their orthodoxy and position. Hence the JT and Willie reaction. And possibly the initial police response.
More light, please.
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Kumara Republic, in reply to
Once you accept that rapists do not wander around with horns and 666 tattooed on their foreheads, you realise that they are a product of their social environment. This in turn implies the social norms need adjusting.
So effectively, people aren't born to be rapists, but made into them.
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Richard Aston, in reply to
And it only takes threes dogs to constitute a pack.
Yeah and there is something in that dynamic , the late great poet Alden Nowlan had a good term to explain why people would not do things individually they would a pack
"the guilt can't be divided into small forgettable pieces" -
Richard Aston, in reply to
This in turn implies the social norms need adjusting.
You make it sound so easy Dismal , social norms or cultural narratives sometimes take generations to " adjust"
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Dismal Soyanz, in reply to
I'm going to go out on a limb and say yeah. I have no evidence to hand but would be very surprised if rapists were going to rape no matter their environment.
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Dismal Soyanz, in reply to
Agreed. But until we as a society acknowledge that the norms need to change (and that has to start somewhere), change won't happen. Understanding why some/many resist that change makes the process more bearable.
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I'm not sure this is a particularly helpful development. Apart from the obvious victim-blaming aspects, it could easily lead to escalation of violence etc.
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Lucy Telfar Barnard, in reply to
Not helpful at all.
Besides which, what happens when, on that awesome night out the chick's having in the video, she's had so much to drink (including non-alcoholics of course) she needs to pee in a hurry, and she's dashing to the loo thinking "crap, was the combination quarter past four or quarter TO four?!"...
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
Consent is not complicated. It’s really fucking simple. If you find it too confusing, you should err on the side of Always Asking, every time. And we should stop pretending that talking about sex isn’t done because it’s dull. It isn’t done because it’s terrifying.
And you know what, kids, consent (i.e. treating your potential sexual partner as a participant in a mutually respectful and pleasurable activity not some semen spittoon) is really fucking hot.
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Miche Campbell, in reply to
You make it sound so easy Dismal , social norms or cultural narratives sometimes take generations to ” adjust”
What better time to start than now?
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And Radio Vile strikes again! FFS, is there something in the water?
[edit] which was actually last week. I must have missed it in a paroxysm of community outrage.
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Rich Lock, in reply to
Once you accept that rapists do not wander around with horns and 666 tattooed on their foreheads, you realise that they are a product of their social environment. This in turn implies the social norms need adjusting. For many, especially the privileged males, this is a challenge to their orthodoxy and position.
Good old psychological 'othering' rears it's head again. 'I am a good person. My firends are good people and my friends of friends - my wider community - are also good people. As they are all good, they can never do evil. Therefore, those who do are monstrous abberations rather than a product of the environment. Our efforts must therefore be put into casting them out and shunning them rather than examining the environment, because it goes without saying that it doesn't need changing. Because we're all good people.'
social norms or cultural narratives sometimes take generations to ” adjust”
Well, um....yes? Martin Luther King to Obama was merely a few decades, and now that Obama is president, that struggle is done and dusted, right? Stonewall to gay marriage across the entire western world? Pay and representation parity for women in boardrooms and government?
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Let me say that I've had a further communication from a senior police officer relating to previous matters that I believe was in good faith and well intentioned.
My impression is that certain individuals mean well, even senior ones, but that there is an entrenched culture, so certainly, ANY talk of "bad apples" has to be stamped on immediately.
Keep pushing awareness of rape culture, not just a few bad apples.
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An interesting site I became aware of last night http://theharbour.org.nz/ which looks like it’s taking a good approach. There’s a similar site/organisation in Scotland called Havens.
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Kracklite, in reply to
Well, at Don Corleone's home, I know that I would have better food.
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Lilith, I just saw your comment under Rudman's column. Thank you very much.
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I'm impressed by Rudman's ability to dog whistle, feed the "real" trolls and stick his head in the sand at the same time. Quite the circus act.
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Kracklite, in reply to
Maybe I'm being solipsistic, but I really wasn't bothered and couldn't see why anyone would pay attention and didn't notice until people pointed me toward his column (though I'm appreciative of Lilith's comment) because... well, does he matter? Does he have any distinguishing characteristics? At least John Roughan has ridiculous hair whereas his is merely dull.
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Lilith __, in reply to
Lilith, I just saw your comment under Rudman’s column. Thank you very much.
I'm glad if you're not taking what he says to heart. Because he obviously has no idea what a troll is, or how online discussion works...or anything, really. And his attitude to Aspergers, and people who have it? Ignorant and stupid.
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Kracklite, in reply to
Hi Lilith, I don't take it to heart because I don't even take it to mind. Really, who is he, why is he a columnist? Bad hair (at least Peter Dunne tries to be outrageously silly in that area), a porn 'stache (rather like Chris Trotter) and decomposing in a safe click trap... they don't count for much.
As we've both said, we've had our disagreements, but I value your presence and thank you for valuing mine.
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From the WashPost: Rape culture in India. Especially in the wake of a very infamous gang rape that had fatal consequences.
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
I’m impressed by Rudman’s ability to dog whistle, feed the “real” trolls and stick his head in the sand at the same time. Quite the circus act.
Well, yes... and am I the only person who noticed the irony of Rudman's pompous little lecture about "civil discourse" and the evils of anonymity in a newspaper that allows... well, anonymous comments. I personally also think being lectured on civility by anyone connected with the Herald's disgusting Whaleoil-driven campaign to drive Len Brown out of office (and slut-shame Bevan Cheung) is like getting lessons on good taste from Miley Cyrus.
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From the Dom: Rape victim could have 'closed legs' says lawyer
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