Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: Narcissists and bullies

Brent Jackson

Fri, 21 Nov 2014 14:41:18 +1300

There is a protest against the lack of action in the Roastbusters case, in Auckland on Sat 22nd Nov at 1pm outside the High Court in Waterloo Quadrant (where Symonds St and Anzac Avenue meet).

Steve Barnes

Sat, 24 May 2014 11:18:45 +1200

From 6 Months back…
TV3 just mentioned that one of the alleged rapists is the son of a police officer. And suddenly, everything becomes clear…
And now…
So somehow nobody, not even those who failed to communicate, can be criticised for failing to communicate.

Same old same old.
Cops always…

Chris Waugh

Fri, 23 May 2014 10:37:05 +1200

So somehow nobody, not even those who failed to communicate, can be criticised for failing to communicate. Can anyone be held to account for the fact real people's lives are still being screwed around with?

Sacha

Thu, 22 May 2014 21:16:40 +1200

"no individual could be criticised" for that breakdown in communication.

not even the person who failed to communicate?
nice try, guvs.

Sacha

Thu, 22 May 2014 21:15:35 +1200

independent loss off control

or 'slight bladder weakness' as advertisers would have it

Moz

Thu, 22 May 2014 16:57:13 +1200

A systemic breakdown of communication

And in shocking news, the IPCA said "no individual could be criticised" for that breakdown in communication. Most obviously because anyone who does name names is likely to be sued, which is why we have bodies like IPCA who are supposed to criticise on our…

Chris Waugh

Thu, 22 May 2014 15:22:52 +1200

A systemic breakdown of communication, huh?

Just thinking

Thu, 19 Dec 2013 21:06:18 +1300

I applaud the sentence of Home D. here

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/9533213/Victim-disgusted-Meyer-avoids-jail

Named, shamed and restrained, by the conditions of his sentence. I just wished the Justices would have as fairer view of the normal suspects before them.

Kracklite

Wed, 18 Dec 2013 10:55:21 +1300

"It can't happen here". How many times do we hear that? It's not just the corruption, but the cover-up that is the problem, which is also corruption. It's been under Marshall's watch and the buck stops at his desk. Did he know, and if he didn't, why not?

Ian Dalziel

Mon, 09 Dec 2013 07:47:28 +1300

Tripe?
... rough draft for another Underbelly series.
...in deference to our new dairy overlords,
the Canterbury bite from this franchise
would have to be... Udderbelly
:- )

Just thinking

Sun, 08 Dec 2013 20:24:33 +1300

There were always stories about various Cop Shops in Christchurch.At their most benign it was the cops signing the ceiling of the cafeteria when they leave/visit the South Cop Shop.
This is the graffiti of public property you & I paid for. In other towns kids have been stabbed to death…

Kumara Republic

Sat, 07 Dec 2013 23:36:17 +1300

On a brighter note for once, the boys in blue have just made a big money laundering & drugs bust at the nation's biggest casino. Then again, it's the work of the SFO/OFCA unit of the police, so it's probably not the same officers in charge of chasing rapists.

Just thinking

Sat, 07 Dec 2013 15:45:48 +1300

Promotions are at risk, the truth must not come out.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/9488407/Corrupt-cop-report-delayed

Just thinking

Wed, 20 Nov 2013 22:10:35 +1300

A bit of spin from those in the force who think they're in the running to be the next Top Cop spot.

Sources have told The Press that Gordon Stanley Meyer's supervisors at Christchurch South police station were not told about the 2007 complaint until after his 2011 offending came…

Kracklite

Wed, 20 Nov 2013 17:42:07 +1300

Indeed. Marshall might be personally a nice guy, but he has very shallow principles and has been promoted to his level of incompetence. The torrent of scandals that is gushing out now proves that. They happened under his watch, after the Bazley report. Strutting about in a shiny hat with…

Bart Janssen

Mon, 18 Nov 2013 09:55:00 +1300

Just thought I'd pass this on from Toto in response to the e-mail I sent them. I presume others got the same letter and apologies if this is a repeat.

Good response.

Good Afternoon,

Toto Restaurant as advertisers have had a long relationship with Radio Live. That does not extend…

Marnie Walters

Sun, 17 Nov 2013 14:51:43 +1300

Thank you for sharing this

Miche Campbell

Sun, 17 Nov 2013 00:43:07 +1300

Maybe it's starting to hit them just how irrelevant they are to society.

Kracklite

Sat, 16 Nov 2013 19:24:00 +1300

Why are you surprised?

Just thinking

Sat, 16 Nov 2013 18:35:36 +1300

The next Police Commissioner should look something like this:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9406956/Next-spy-boss-seen-as-principled

Kumara Republic

Sat, 16 Nov 2013 18:29:38 +1300

Had a quick glimpse of the Sensible Sentencing Trust's Facebook page on the RoastBusters debacle – I looked at it so you don't have to – and with a couple of exceptions the commenters have thankfully steered clear of playing the uncovered meat card or taking the law into their…

Sacha

Sat, 16 Nov 2013 12:32:57 +1300

this feels more like a culture problem rather than corruption

Isn't that what Bazley said? They've had ages to fix it too.

Next move, fire those who have failed to do so. Appoint a change agent at the top. It's what any other organisation would do with sustained poor performance.…

Kracklite

Sat, 16 Nov 2013 12:28:55 +1300

This is horrible and something every New Zealand police officer – especially Peter Marshall – needs to see. Trigger warnings apply.

http://www.upworthy.com/a-marine-was-assaulted-her-commander-said-she-deserved-it-for-wearing-running-shorts-really?c=ufb1

nzlemming

Sat, 16 Nov 2013 11:21:29 +1300

I’m not suggesting that as a solution here, this feels more like a culture problem rather than corruption.

A culture problem is what exists in the minds of the police and causes them to prejudice their dealings with victims of sexual assult. The corruption lies in what they have failed…

Kyle Matthews

Fri, 15 Nov 2013 12:44:19 +1300

Like the one Bazley conducted half a decade ago after the Louise Nicholas complaint, you mean?

Well somewhat, but not quite. The Bazley report was a one off, with yearly audits to see how they're going on the recommendations.

The Bazley report has identified some serious issues and now we're…

Just thinking

Fri, 15 Nov 2013 12:32:21 +1300

Surely that was the defence lawyer giving the defendants side of things and in the context of the trial is relevant to showing the defendants true belief.
That this is universally damned by all of society and the courts is the shining light to changes in society.
This was a…

Dismal Soyanz

Thu, 14 Nov 2013 11:06:12 +1300

Staggering that. A variation on the "I'm just following orders" defence. And then to say it was ok because the judge and prosecutor didn't complain. I understand the need for a lawyer to advocate positions that he may not personally agree with but this is taking it to such a…

Kumara Republic

Thu, 14 Nov 2013 10:45:33 +1300

From the Dom: Rape victim could have 'closed legs' says lawyer

Craig Ranapia

Thu, 14 Nov 2013 06:44:38 +1300

I’m impressed by Rudman’s ability to dog whistle, feed the “real” trolls and stick his head in the sand at the same time. Quite the circus act.

Well, yes... and am I the only person who noticed the irony of Rudman's pompous little lecture about "civil discourse" and the evils…

Kumara Republic

Thu, 14 Nov 2013 00:28:32 +1300

From the WashPost: Rape culture in India. Especially in the wake of a very infamous gang rape that had fatal consequences.

Kracklite

Wed, 13 Nov 2013 20:09:21 +1300

Hi Lilith, I don't take it to heart because I don't even take it to mind. Really, who is he, why is he a columnist? Bad hair (at least Peter Dunne tries to be outrageously silly in that area), a porn 'stache (rather like Chris Trotter) and decomposing in a…

Lilith __

Wed, 13 Nov 2013 19:41:02 +1300

Lilith, I just saw your comment under Rudman’s column. Thank you very much.

I'm glad if you're not taking what he says to heart. Because he obviously has no idea what a troll is, or how online discussion works...or anything, really. And his attitude to Aspergers, and people who have…

Kracklite

Wed, 13 Nov 2013 18:08:29 +1300

Maybe I'm being solipsistic, but I really wasn't bothered and couldn't see why anyone would pay attention and didn't notice until people pointed me toward his column (though I'm appreciative of Lilith's comment) because... well, does he matter? Does he have any distinguishing characteristics? At least John Roughan has ridiculous…

Dismal Soyanz

Wed, 13 Nov 2013 17:57:55 +1300

I'm impressed by Rudman's ability to dog whistle, feed the "real" trolls and stick his head in the sand at the same time. Quite the circus act.

Kracklite

Wed, 13 Nov 2013 16:04:02 +1300

Lilith, I just saw your comment under Rudman's column. Thank you very much.

Kracklite

Wed, 13 Nov 2013 16:03:20 +1300

Well, at Don Corleone's home, I know that I would have better food.

nzlemming

Wed, 13 Nov 2013 06:43:51 +1300

An interesting site I became aware of last night http://theharbour.org.nz/ which looks like it’s taking a good approach. There’s a similar site/organisation in Scotland called Havens.

Kracklite

Tue, 12 Nov 2013 23:27:18 +1300

Let me say that I've had a further communication from a senior police officer relating to previous matters that I believe was in good faith and well intentioned.

My impression is that certain individuals mean well, even senior ones, but that there is an entrenched culture, so certainly, ANY talk…

Rich Lock

Tue, 12 Nov 2013 22:21:06 +1300

Once you accept that rapists do not wander around with horns and 666 tattooed on their foreheads, you realise that they are a product of their social environment. This in turn implies the social norms need adjusting. For many, especially the privileged males, this is a challenge to their orthodoxy…

nzlemming

Tue, 12 Nov 2013 18:52:35 +1300

And Radio Vile strikes again! FFS, is there something in the water?

[edit] which was actually last week. I must have missed it in a paroxysm of community outrage.

Miche Campbell

Tue, 12 Nov 2013 18:37:32 +1300

You make it sound so easy Dismal , social norms or cultural narratives sometimes take generations to ” adjust”

What better time to start than now?

Craig Ranapia

Tue, 12 Nov 2013 18:02:48 +1300

Consent is not complicated. It’s really fucking simple. If you find it too confusing, you should err on the side of Always Asking, every time. And we should stop pretending that talking about sex isn’t done because it’s dull. It isn’t done because it’s terrifying.

And you know what, kids,…

Lucy Telfar Barnard

Tue, 12 Nov 2013 16:12:00 +1300

Not helpful at all.

Besides which, what happens when, on that awesome night out the chick's having in the video, she's had so much to drink (including non-alcoholics of course) she needs to pee in a hurry, and she's dashing to the loo thinking "crap, was the combination quarter past…

Kirk Alexander

Tue, 12 Nov 2013 15:59:43 +1300

I'm not sure this is a particularly helpful development. Apart from the obvious victim-blaming aspects, it could easily lead to escalation of violence etc.

Dismal Soyanz

Tue, 12 Nov 2013 15:56:46 +1300

Agreed. But until we as a society acknowledge that the norms need to change (and that has to start somewhere), change won't happen. Understanding why some/many resist that change makes the process more bearable.

Dismal Soyanz

Tue, 12 Nov 2013 15:53:27 +1300

I'm going to go out on a limb and say yeah. I have no evidence to hand but would be very surprised if rapists were going to rape no matter their environment.

Richard Aston

Tue, 12 Nov 2013 15:32:52 +1300

This in turn implies the social norms need adjusting.

You make it sound so easy Dismal , social norms or cultural narratives sometimes take generations to " adjust"

Richard Aston

Tue, 12 Nov 2013 15:28:36 +1300

And it only takes threes dogs to constitute a pack.

Yeah and there is something in that dynamic , the late great poet Alden Nowlan had a good term to explain why people would not do things individually they would a pack
"the guilt can't be divided into small forgettable…

Kumara Republic

Tue, 12 Nov 2013 15:26:40 +1300

So effectively, people aren't born to be rapists, but made into them.

Dismal Soyanz

Tue, 12 Nov 2013 14:39:40 +1300

BenWilson

Tue, 12 Nov 2013 14:24:37 +1300

I don’t like the hint of “victim Olympics” in it.

I'm sorry in hindsight that it came out like that, since my point was to actually question that very idea. I think it's great that there's finally so much anger about this kind of rape. Our societal reaction to notorious…

Paul Campbell

Tue, 12 Nov 2013 13:29:36 +1300

So why does it seem crazier to ask someone if they want to have sex with you than to try to deduce it from their clothes?

+1 indeed

Hebe

Tue, 12 Nov 2013 13:19:34 +1300

Yep.

nzlemming

Tue, 12 Nov 2013 13:08:55 +1300

Emma Hart

Tue, 12 Nov 2013 13:04:01 +1300

2) if a girl is drunk and/ or flirting and/ or wearing a short skirt then she is ‘up for it’

We've had a couple of articles in local papers asking high school principals what they're doing about their net safety programs. Not one asking what they're doing about teaching…

nzlemming

Tue, 12 Nov 2013 12:38:06 +1300

Carmel Sepuloni posted this on Facebook this morning:
At the Waitakere Violence Free network. Some shocking revelations in our discussion. One guy said he spoke to 36 thirteen and fourteen year old boys and some of the responses were along the lines of 1) its only rape if a stranger…

Russell Brown

Tue, 12 Nov 2013 12:18:45 +1300

Victim Olympics also focus on what did and didn’t happen, rather than how we feel about what happened, but it’s the latter we take with us from day to day.

That tallies with what my friend revealed to us last week. On the face of it, the assault she suffered…

Lucy Telfar Barnard

Tue, 12 Nov 2013 11:55:45 +1300

Absolutely right TracyMac. I think of all the women and men I've spoken to over the years who've experienced sexual assault of one kind or another, and the different harms they've taken from it, and severity or longevity of harm doesn't necessarily equate with the "severity" of the assault.

The…

TracyMac

Tue, 12 Nov 2013 11:16:37 +1300

Uh, while I appreciate your broader point, I don't like the hint of "victim Olympics" in it. Yes, being violently assaulted and brutalized by a stranger is horrendous. Being (semi) stupified and assaulted by someone you kind of know, with the full knowledge of their mates and probably some of…

Danielle

Tue, 12 Nov 2013 09:51:53 +1300

Despite agreeing with that piece in large part, I think it's pretty weird to blame the dehumanisation of rapists on feminists. Who, after all, are the ones who came up with "rape culture" as a concept. That theory makes rapists all too human, not monstrous at all.*

*Actually a point…

Hebe

Tue, 12 Nov 2013 09:20:44 +1300

How to change male misogyny culture without more blaming and shaming is what is challenging me to act...How to encourage respect and caring for women and also acknowledge the beautiful wildness of sexuality. How to find this balance and a pathway into the male psyche to awaken that deep respect.…

Ben Austin

Tue, 12 Nov 2013 09:18:45 +1300

It was one of the better apologies I've read. I should book mark it to send to the no doubt inevitable non apologies from public figures we will all encounter in the future.

Richard Aston

Tue, 12 Nov 2013 09:01:12 +1300

Diane Revoluta discusses how we “look for how we can punish the individual rather than address the wider culture”.

Thanks for this link Sacha , its a good balance in the blame game currently emerging.
However, it’s more than just the fact dehumanising rapists perpetuates myths about rape. It creates…

Sofie Bribiesca

Tue, 12 Nov 2013 08:56:48 +1300

However, that doesn’t change my earlier objection to the offenders in this case attempting to have the media present them as the victims. They may be victims in some way or another, but not in the ways those news stories spin it.

Earlier I called them sick. They are. They…

BenWilson

Tue, 12 Nov 2013 08:42:43 +1300

She's thought provoking, for sure. A public outpouring of rage over rape is a good thing to see, considering the nature of these rapes, that they're not your textbook Mark Stephens type offences At least a large segment of society does actually consider this to be rape now. But from…

Lucy Telfar Barnard

Tue, 12 Nov 2013 07:21:30 +1300

Diane does an excellent job of explaining the importance of remembering that sex offenders are not monsters. It’s something I forget from time to time, but I’ve found useful for explaining part of why people who’ve been sexually assaulted can find it hard to be believed.

When people envisage sex…

Sacha

Mon, 11 Nov 2013 19:59:41 +1300

Diane Revoluta discusses how we "look for how we can punish the individual rather than address the wider culture".

Sacha

Mon, 11 Nov 2013 19:49:24 +1300

Often these organisations need help from outside to turn the ship – commissions of inquiry

Like the one Bazley conducted half a decade ago after the Louise Nicholas complaint, you mean?

Hebe

Mon, 11 Nov 2013 19:31:11 +1300

Y’can bet they didn’t write that apology themselves. Until the end of the year: not good enough. Hire some people with a shred of human feeling and decency rather than these two Neanderthals.T and J have slid lazily into being a pair of mouths our national discourse could well do…

Kumara Republic

Mon, 11 Nov 2013 19:23:29 +1300

Fagan’s apology was delightful. I particularly enjoyed the bit where Karyn Hay made him get out in the rain and walk, though mostly for what that action says about Karyn rather than what the apology says about Fagan.

Good to see humble pie is still on the menu.

Greg111

Mon, 11 Nov 2013 18:23:32 +1300

Paul I accept your point.

Paul Williams

Mon, 11 Nov 2013 17:56:05 +1300

It is a truism that what really pisses of the average punter is hypocrisy.

Rudeness rankles with me a little.

There are a lot of people here who manage to their disagreements with one another politely and respectfully. Something worth thinking about if you want what you're contributing to be…

Greg111

Mon, 11 Nov 2013 17:52:49 +1300

Cheers for your reply. Look, I'm not a regular reader of this blog in that I recently discovered it in the wake of the Len Brown scenario. I do enjoy this blog and am becoming regular. Kracklite's membership dates from 2007 while yours dates from 2006 so you have some…

Lucy Telfar Barnard

Mon, 11 Nov 2013 16:32:14 +1300

Fagan's apology was delightful. I particularly enjoyed the bit where Karyn Hay made him get out in the rain and walk, though mostly for what that action says about Karyn rather than what the apology says about Fagan.

Russell Brown

Mon, 11 Nov 2013 16:19:15 +1300

My take of that is they won’t be coming back. That was corporate speak for terminated.

I wouldn't be surprised.

nzlemming

Mon, 11 Nov 2013 16:11:03 +1300

Also, Mr Fagan has an apology online which sounds a lot better.

Danielle

Mon, 11 Nov 2013 15:56:33 +1300

Yes, I know. I was responding to the article’s assertions, not your take on them. Sorry if that wasn’t clear.

ETA Or: what SteveH said.

Miche Campbell

Mon, 11 Nov 2013 15:41:25 +1300

Just as important for it to be smacked down, though.

Craig Ranapia

Mon, 11 Nov 2013 15:30:10 +1300

It could very well turn out that way, though I suspect at the moment management are thinking “probably this will blow over in a couple of months so we’ll stand them down until the new year and then reassess”.

Almost definitely, but I just hope Radio Live management are going…

SteveH

Mon, 11 Nov 2013 14:58:42 +1300

My take of that is they won’t be coming back. That was corporate speak for terminated.

It could very well turn out that way, though I suspect at the moment management are thinking "probably this will blow over in a couple of months so we'll stand them down until the…

Martin Brown

Mon, 11 Nov 2013 14:54:05 +1300

My take of that is they won't be coming back. That was corporate speak for terminated.

Lucy Telfar Barnard

Mon, 11 Nov 2013 14:50:45 +1300

Yeah, that story was apiece with this one in trying to turn the perpetrators into the victims. I viewed with derision the section "On Parker's return home, a family friend [who the story later says is providing the Parker family with media advice] says, Parker's stepfather had taken Parker to Henderson…

nzlemming

Mon, 11 Nov 2013 14:47:27 +1300

The debate would better be served by examining whether it was proper to contact you following whatever information you gave to police, but you chose to suppress this and now readers of this blog have only a biased side of the story.
I am yet to see any of your…

Greg111

Mon, 11 Nov 2013 14:43:59 +1300

From many of your comments, this reply is to the one where you are the most disingenuous. I am sure it was a shock to get a call from a person claiming to be the police commissioner and feeling intimidated as a result.
Nevertheless, you claim "I have no idea…

SteveH

Mon, 11 Nov 2013 13:51:53 +1300

I was referring to the Roast Busters, not the girls who went to the police.

I think Danielle's point was that the claim that those guys had posted exaggerated accounts of their behaviour (and/or were joking) does not jibe with the fact that four of the girls complaining to the…

Scott A

Mon, 11 Nov 2013 12:41:54 +1300

...It is so refreshing to see a public apology that is actually, you know, apologetic. That acknowledges the reasons that apologies were needed. With no "we apologise for any offence caused"...

DexterX

Mon, 11 Nov 2013 12:29:56 +1300

The right message.

Russell Brown

Mon, 11 Nov 2013 12:25:47 +1300

Willie and JT are gone, for at least the rest of the year:

MEDIA RELEASE
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Monday, 11 November, 2013

WILLIE JACKSON, JOHN TAMIHERE OFF AIR FOR REMAINDER OF 2013

Willie Jackson and John Tamihere will not return to RadioLIVE for the rest of 2013. The announcement was…

Kumara Republic

Mon, 11 Nov 2013 11:38:40 +1300

So I suppose those four girls were just lying to the police for shits and giggles? Because laying a sexual assault complaint sounds like a barrel of laughs. Honestly, what a lot of crap that article is.

I was referring to the Roast Busters, not the girls who went to…

Chris Waugh

Mon, 11 Nov 2013 11:21:59 +1300

..and sometimes they just hit the iceberg, full speed ahead!

Or the reef, clearly marked on the charts they didn't bother to check, breaking the ship in half, scattering its cargo, and leaking large amounts of oil and who knows what toxins into the sea.

Ian Dalziel

Mon, 11 Nov 2013 10:57:04 +1300

Often these organisations need help from outside to turn the ship...
..and sometimes they just hit the iceberg, full speed ahead!

Kyle Matthews

Mon, 11 Nov 2013 10:24:01 +1300

I called for his resignation earlier, but I now think that he wants to do well. Still, he advanced through the ranks knowing about the attitudes that existed and didn’t challenge them.

That's a complicated problem. If you're trying to bring about change to a heirarchical organisation, you largely need…

DexterX

Mon, 11 Nov 2013 07:52:48 +1300

The Police need to acknowledge the omission to treat the complaints seriously is unacceptable whilst also progressing the inquiry.

If the Police seriously want people’s opinions of them to change they need to demonstrate that they have changed their behavior and culture. The emphasis on counter PR measures and damage…

Russell Brown

Mon, 11 Nov 2013 07:21:54 +1300

Here is a link Martin, Roast Busters. I reported it this afternoon but still up so far.

My hunch is that it's an attention-seeking fake.

stephen clover

Mon, 11 Nov 2013 06:52:45 +1300

ARGH!

Roast Busters, 15 hours ago
Fuck the haters we haven't done anything wrong those girls wanted to have sex with US!

stephen clover

Mon, 11 Nov 2013 06:50:04 +1300

Can I just check: you weren't required to leave contact information when you lodged the complaint on their website?

Danielle

Mon, 11 Nov 2013 06:28:21 +1300

Craig Ranapia

Mon, 11 Nov 2013 00:55:30 +1300

Having him talk to people who can elucidate the problem we see with the police seems far preferably to not having him talk to those people, and instead just hoping it filters up from some junior in a weekly report.

Sure – but here’s something I learned the hard way…

Kumara Republic

Mon, 11 Nov 2013 00:44:23 +1300

LATEST: Three close friends of the Roast Busters sex gang say the group's ringleaders exaggerated many of their sexual exploits to impress their classmates and were now living in fear of their lives due to the public's reaction to the scandal.

If the whole Roast Busters thing really was meant…

Just thinking

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 23:00:08 +1300

I'll credit Marshall with answering critics directly and this is a crisis of confidence in the force as a whole where it should be done, but that's it. The content is still lacking in his message and calling Kracklite at home is a step too far me thinks.

DeepRed -…

Kumara Republic

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 22:17:26 +1300

Update: Police comms say that Marshall has been responding personally to complaints made via the police website (which I’m told requires contact details).

Seriously, is Commissioner Marshall trying to channel the late Gideon Tait? (scroll down to page 6)

Kumara Republic

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 22:12:49 +1300

I see a 77 year old was sexually assaulted in Auckland last night. I can’t help wondering if Peter Marshall thinks its vitally important that investigators ask that victim what she was wearing and whether she had had any alcohol that night.

Goes to show that rape has little to…

Kracklite

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 22:02:54 +1300

I'll credit Marshall with good, albeit late intentions. I was too freaked out to engage with him at the time, but I appreciate that he is struggling to find out what is right and proper.

I called for his resignation earlier, but I now think that he wants to do…

Morgan Nichol

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 21:58:29 +1300

You know what, I really don't want to get a phone call from Marshall if he's just going to repeat the cringe-inducing display of deep denial on Q&A this morning. It would almost be funny [...] if it wasn't so damn serious.

If it was anything like his performance with Campbell,…

Kirk Alexander

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 21:57:09 +1300

Here is a link Martin, Roast Busters. I reported it this afternoon but still up so far.

Martin Brown

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 21:50:10 +1300

Actually Steve, it's not up. You can enter that name in a field and see the name, but the page is disabled. Show me what you are seeing. Is it under a different name?
Seriously, do a screen shot.

Martin Brown

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 21:46:54 +1300

I certainly will. Well, I'll pass it on. Thanks.

Sofie Bribiesca

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 21:45:03 +1300

This popped up. PAS gets read.

Joe Wylie

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 21:39:04 +1300

The persecution of Arie-Smith-Voorkamp, and the subsequent blatantly clumsy attempts to intimidate the media, took place on Marshall's watch. In light of that, Kracklite's misgivings seem well justified.

Sofie Bribiesca

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 21:25:17 +1300

if it wasn’t so damn serious.

This however is important and serious and as I would say to anyone, If Marshall calls, talk to him. Tell him how you feel . If you don't want to, tell him to call me. Seriously. I believe in educating those who are ignorant…

Steve Parks

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 21:17:15 +1300

That FB Roast Busters page which was up again is now down thanks to a call from a Kiwi director in LA to another Kiwi, Mark D’Arcy, who is now the Global CD of Facebook. He had it disabled immediately.

It’s back up, with the message “They shut us down…

Craig Ranapia

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 21:05:32 +1300

This isn’t (as it was earlier described) “clumsy and inappropriate”, it’s AMAZING. It’s too bad we found out about it this way, because it’s incredible and might be a globally unique degree of access.

You know what, I really don't want to get a phone call from Marshall if he's…

simon g

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 20:10:22 +1300

So I was wrong.

As a PR exercise by the police, this doesn't seem very well thought through. I'll leave it there.

Russell Brown

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 20:07:42 +1300

I'm not sure have the CEO of the Police following up every complaint personally is really…

Morgan Nichol

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 19:56:53 +1300

Update: Police comms say that Marshall has been responding personally to complaints made via the police website (which I’m told requires contact details).

This isn’t (as it was earlier described) “clumsy and inappropriate”, it’s AMAZING. It’s too bad we found out about it this way, because it’s incredible and might…

Kyle Matthews

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 19:49:55 +1300

Update: Police comms say that Marshall has been responding personally to complaints made via the police website (which I’m told requires contact details).

Well that is bizarre. Maybe this is why he didn't have time to be properly briefed for Campbell Live the other night?

Russell Brown

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 19:19:30 +1300

Update: Police comms say that Marshall has been responding personally to complaints made via the police website (which I’m told requires contact details).

I’m wondering if he has been reading this site and simply didn’t grasp the line he’d be crossing by directly contacting Kracklite.

But that’s just a guess.…

matthew

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 19:04:36 +1300

I see a 77 year old was sexually assaulted in Auckland last night. I can't help wondering if Peter Marshall thinks its vitally important that investigators ask that victim what she was wearing and whether she had had any alcohol that night.

Kyle Matthews

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 17:50:29 +1300

Even if it was a “prank”, they knew how to find me at home. Think about that.

I meant prank from someone you knew. I don't know if your name etc is out there enough somewhere for them to attach your views on police to your name/phone number/address?

If it…

simon g

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 17:41:22 +1300

Only guessing here, but …

– if this was a prank/crank, they wouldn’t phone back.

– if it was real, then somebody (police PR person) would phone back – to explain. Because if’s it's real they’ll be explaining (or having to lie) to the media soon enough.

So my money’s…

Kracklite

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 17:33:57 +1300

Even if it was a "prank", they knew how to find me at home. Think about that.

nzlemming

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 17:32:20 +1300

If Police Commissioners were to go intimidating people, that’s not how they’d do it.

And they really don’t have time to phone up critics and make chitchat – I speak from experience here.

Point. They'd usually get the comms manager to do it – oh, wait...

Kyle Matthews

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 17:24:42 +1300

A person identifying themselves as Police Comissionner Peter Marshall phoned me on my private land line early this afternoon, named me and said that they wished to talk about the Roastbusters case. I immediately said that I had no interest in talking to hjm about it and hung up.

That…

Kracklite

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 17:18:53 +1300

A person identifying themself as Police Comissionner Peter Marshall phoned me on my private land line early this afternoon, named me and said that they wished to talk about the Roastbusters case. I immediately said that I had no interest in talking to hjm about it and hung up.

I…

Paul Campbell

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 17:08:44 +1300

yeah exactly

Juha Saarinen

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 17:06:03 +1300

Putting PRISM resources to "good use"?

B Jones

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 17:02:12 +1300

I'd be looking at anyone who knew my handle with a bit of a sideeye after something like that. Possibilities that spring to mind immediately include someone having you on, or a very short chain of someone who knows someone at head office. If you're feeling generous, talking to a…

Ana Simkiss

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 16:49:01 +1300

What the what?? This is bizarre and alarming, and cackhanded.

Russell Brown

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 16:48:03 +1300

Please don’t . Contact Russell ASAP.

It would be quite acceptable to have a steadying glass and *then* email me.

Kumara Republic

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 16:47:50 +1300

Did you have caller ID? Or do the boys in blue always ring anonymously?

Kracklite

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 16:46:34 +1300

Hi Russell, obviously they know who I am, but nonetheless, I don't want to call further attention to myself. Perhaps if you highlight this, you can do it in a more general way. I'll accept that Marshall was just being an idiot, but the fact that he can find out…

BenWilson

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 16:44:03 +1300

drunk is my usual remedy.

Please don't . Contact Russell ASAP.

Kracklite

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 16:42:56 +1300

He knew my name, my phone number and my home address.

Just Thinking: drunk is my usual remedy. My Doctor's advised against it, however.

Kumara Republic

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 16:40:51 +1300

And anyone who has the slightest morbid urge to read Karl Du Fresne’s “thoughts”, don’t. They’re downright evil.

I'm reminded of the Howse brothers trial, when their mother basically invoked the uncovered meat card in their defence:

__After Peter's conviction for his three last sex attacks, Betty, then
71, leapt…

Russell Brown

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 16:38:10 +1300

Well Marshall just tried to call me personally at my own home. I hung up immediately when he identified himself.

Maybe he had naive honourable motives… but if that were the case, it’s too little, too late.

It would still be inappropriate and ill-advised. Not to mention weird.

Click the…

Just thinking

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 16:35:47 +1300

Hi Kracklite,
This is time to call a friend, walk on the beach or get roaring drunk
I'm sure this will be followed up. Look after yourself.

Michael Stevens

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 16:31:46 +1300

That is appalling ! And surely it's illegal – oh wait – NZ Police, that sort of detail would be beyond them.

BenWilson

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 16:26:02 +1300

Well Marshall just tried to call me personally at my own home. I hung up immediately when he identified himself.

Are you serious? Did he ask for you by name or handle?

Kracklite

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 16:21:27 +1300

Exactly – I've been critical of the police, but I've committed no crime. I'm no rapist, but now they know who I am and where I live and they want to scare me.

I'd expect at least I'd have had two years' grace.

Marshall can't pretend that he didn't know…

nzlemming

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 16:11:48 +1300

I’m frightened. This is terrifying. They know who you are, they’re going to come after you.

It was MY OWN FUCKING HOME!

I'm not surprised your upset. It is terrifying.

Kracklite

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 16:05:08 +1300

I'm frightened. This is terrifying. They know who you are, they're going to come after you.

It was MY OWN FUCKING HOME!

Just thinking

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 15:59:35 +1300

What do you say to that?

He ain't Peter Marshall, he's Big Brother.

Kracklite

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 15:37:36 +1300

Well Marshall just tried to call me personally at my own home. I hung up immediately when he identified himself.

Maybe he had naive honourable motives... but if that were the case, it's too little, too late.

I find it personally disturbing that he can find out who I am…

simon g

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 14:18:52 +1300

To Michele A’Court – thank you very much. You are a treasure.

To Josie Pagani – Please read Michele’s words. She shows you how it can be done, while you’re just digging in deeper.

Thanks.

ETA links …

http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/life/9383919/A-tough-week-to-be-a-woman

http://www.pundit.co.nz/content/we-need-to-talk-about-rape-culture

Just thinking

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 14:15:45 +1300

It was suggested having a non-cop as commissioner on Q&A might be a solution. I don't know the answer to that as career Civil Servants are not always talented.
These are the usual suspects for the next Commissioner and many seem to have been in a holding pattern for the top…

Kracklite

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 14:00:44 +1300

This is what that idiot and coward Marshall should be saying, and which he isn't:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaqpoeVgr8U

Kracklite

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 12:48:20 +1300

I refuse to be humiliated

Sorry, I should have said "Intended to be permanently humiliating".

That incompetent Marshall's statements translate as "Oh if only more victims had come forward so that we could slut-shame them and ignore them all over again" and make it plain that his first priority is…

Sofie Bribiesca

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 12:05:35 +1300

Rape is not merely forceful penetration, but permanent humiliation. In letting the Roastbusters Facebook page remain active (and it’s up again), the rape culture of the police continues the rapes.

I refuse to be humiliated. I believe I have my parents to thank for giving me the life skills to…

BenWilson

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 10:42:50 +1300

Yes, the relief that the police are probably not corrupt, but instead just have no ability or will to deal with this kind of crime, is quite slight. Corruption's at least a good honest motive with a clearly identifiable villain. But to find that the real problem is that the…

Danielle

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 10:05:40 +1300

a culture that facilitates what has happened, and I think that any talk about bad apples is a distraction

I don't believe in the bad apples theory either, but I suppose it's easier for me to understand a "culture of cover your ass and protect your own" than a "culture…

Martin Brown

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 09:00:16 +1300

That FB Roast Busters page which was up again is now down thanks to a call from a Kiwi director in LA to another Kiwi, Mark D'Arcy, who is now the Global CD of Facebook. He had it disabled immediately.

Kracklite

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 01:48:39 +1300

Rape is not merely forceful penetration, but permanent humiliation. In letting the Roastbusters Facebook page remain active (and it's up again), the rape culture of the police continues the rapes.

Just thinking

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 00:07:10 +1300

I just assumed it was Hales.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10339317

Hebe

Sat, 09 Nov 2013 23:52:24 +1300

Whilst I know that our culture is what enables this ,I have to say that, I certainly have received my serving of sadness today from Wendyl Nissen at The Herald .Does a Mother have no words for her daughter ? Geez. :(

Fucking hell.

Sofie Bribiesca

Sat, 09 Nov 2013 23:36:39 +1300

but rather a culture that facilitates what has happened, and I think that any talk about bad apples is a distraction.

Whilst I know that our culture is what enables this ,I have to say that, I certainly have received my [[ http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11153946| serving of sadness today from Wendyl Nissen at…

Kracklite

Sat, 09 Nov 2013 22:15:09 +1300

I certainly don't think that it's a matter of family connections or bad apples, but rather a culture that facilitates what has happened, and I think that any talk about bad apples is a distraction.

Danielle

Sat, 09 Nov 2013 14:52:29 +1300

So, the “Hales connection” seems to be only a coincidence, and Burrow does not serve at Waitakere, as has also been alleged in places.

So presuming the details of the officer's son issue are true (which, given past form, we probably can't, but...), there isn't actually an overarching *reason* for…

Craig Ranapia

Sat, 09 Nov 2013 14:49:15 +1300

Thanks – that a very fair point, well made.

TracyMac

Sat, 09 Nov 2013 14:16:49 +1300

Friends I hadn't seen for 30 years – we were at college together in Glen Innes – were discussing this last night. There are families with decades worth of entrenched abusive behaviour they are passing on to each generation. Some people escape, or were protected from it in various ways.…

Craig Ranapia

Sat, 09 Nov 2013 12:15:20 +1300

On the subject of rape culture influences, is there an unwritten rule in NZ about JT: “never mention his brother”?

I don't know, but doesn't mentioning David Tamihere risk diminishing his brother's agency over, and responsibility for, his own actions? I think we've all got to keep hammering this notion:…

Sacha

Sat, 09 Nov 2013 11:16:55 +1300

I'm also amused by the way that people who get all prissy about swearing are the ones cutting themselves off from an interesting and useful subsection of English vocabulary on the pretension that it makes them "more intelligent."

Quite. 'Civility' privileges the aggression of those with non-verbal power. No thanks.

BenWilson

Sat, 09 Nov 2013 10:02:31 +1300

On the subject of rape culture influences, is there an unwritten rule in NZ about JT: "never mention his brother"?

nzlemming

Sat, 09 Nov 2013 09:57:18 +1300

Re the "son of an officer" matter, according to the Harold this morning:
Police Superintendent Bill Searle said this week that a police officer's son, who the Weekend Herald has since confirmed is Tristan Burrow, was involved with inquiries in 2011 but not subsequently.

He said "the officer concerned", now…

Hilary Stace

Fri, 08 Nov 2013 22:56:41 +1300

Giovanni's piece for Overland http://overland.org.au/2013/11/this-is-what-rape-culture-looks-like/. It was also good to hear him on Checkpoint and see and hear him on TV3 news today. Another good example of blogger activism.

Kumara Republic

Fri, 08 Nov 2013 22:49:15 +1300

You know what – perhaps she needs to take another listen to how Tamihere and Jackson treated Amy. I’m really glad she’d has the spoons – and the ability – to confront that kind of crap directly, but a lot of people don’t. She might not have intended to, but…

Miche Campbell

Fri, 08 Nov 2013 22:24:21 +1300

Writing fuck, is not actually an all that intelligent way to express angor.

On the contrary, dropping the occasional F-bomb is sometimes the most succinct and impactful way to express angEr.

Having a good swear has been shown to reduce pain levels (for instance after hitting your thumb with a…

nzlemming

Fri, 08 Nov 2013 22:10:07 +1300

I think it’s neo-Trotterism: Women and GLBTI and those God-damned pointy-headed urban liberals just need to STFU and remember their place.

Neither Pagani get any respect from me at all. They're both unprincipled dickwads, IMHO, adhering to the Karl Rove school of "win at all costs, and fix it up…

Steve Parks

Fri, 08 Nov 2013 22:06:41 +1300

First, how do I categorise what’s wrong with the page? It’s not harassing me personally, nor anyone I personally know. It’s not spam or a scam. It’s not duplicated or miscategorised. I don’t want to report a post rather than an entire page. That leaves “I just don’t like it”…

Lucy Telfar Barnard

Fri, 08 Nov 2013 21:32:45 +1300

Thanks Emma, yes, that's the one I meant. I knew it had something with Meat in it but couldn't remember what.

Emma Hart

Fri, 08 Nov 2013 21:29:08 +1300

Also, I’m reminded of one of Emma’s posts from long ago with some gaming analogy.

It was a sort of side-line in this post, and like so many things here, much better developed in the comments. Thank you for reminding me of it, because it really does relate to how…

Craig Ranapia

Fri, 08 Nov 2013 21:23:50 +1300

I read that piece, and I just can’t follow her logic at all.

I think it's neo-Trotterism: Women and GLBTI and those God-damned pointy-headed urban liberals just need to STFU and remember their place.

Lucy Telfar Barnard

Fri, 08 Nov 2013 21:06:50 +1300

I read that piece, and I just can’t follow her logic at all. As Stephen also refers to above, I simply can’t believe, and find it pretty darn offensive to suggest, that it’s not possible to find some awesome representative of working class, Maori men, who isn’t a raving misogynist.…

Craig Ranapia

Fri, 08 Nov 2013 21:05:02 +1300

“Are you really saying, for example, that working class Maori men who look and sound like Willie and JT don’t deserve representation in the Labour party because of their offensive views on certain issues?”

The Labour Party can go to hell in whatever handcart they care to ride, but I’d…

Ana Simkiss

Fri, 08 Nov 2013 20:49:06 +1300

Stephen, thanks. If Labour as a movement has not absorbed the feminist ethos after all this time, well, I just don't get it. Imagine being a woman having to caucus with Tamihere.

Stephen Judd

Fri, 08 Nov 2013 20:37:24 +1300

interested in the PAS view, particularly Labour Party members:

I don't speak for anyone, and I have no special knowledge, but I think Tamihere's political future in any party died this week, or it should have.

Pagani seems to imply that there are no working class, Maori men who aren't…

Kirk Alexander

Fri, 08 Nov 2013 20:23:11 +1300

I've gone with "Graphic violence". Can't think of a better way to describe rape.

Martin Brown

Fri, 08 Nov 2013 19:53:32 +1300

I reported it as well. "Credible threat of violence." 5 sec response. No. So I followed their discouragement process through to the leave a message form. Jesus. That must be what it's like dealing with Waitakere Police....

Ana Simkiss

Fri, 08 Nov 2013 19:16:54 +1300

Here is something that enraged me, interested in the PAS view, particularly Labour Party members:
"Are you really saying, for example, that working class Maori men who look and sound like Willie and JT don’t deserve representation in the Labour party because of their offensive views on certain issues?"

From…

Robert Urquhart

Fri, 08 Nov 2013 19:14:49 +1300

I haven't seen this in the thread yet, apologies if it is a repost. From the Book of Face ..
The Good Detective and How He Helped Me Find My Voice

A personal account of how the police can get it right, but a lot more besides.

BenWilson

Fri, 08 Nov 2013 18:24:54 +1300

I chose "violence or harmful behaviour" with "credible threat of violence", because I consider raping and rape incitement to fall into those categories. It might help the cause that 95% of the comments on the page are people giving death threats and gloating about what's going to happen to them…

Lucy Telfar Barnard

Fri, 08 Nov 2013 18:20:19 +1300

I urge everyone to go find the page and do the same. Report it to Facebook.
http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-narcissists-and-bullies/?i=525#
Well, that was an interesting exercise. I got the same swift decision to leave the page active. But the process was pretty poor.

First, how do I categorise what’s wrong with the page?…

Craig Ranapia

Fri, 08 Nov 2013 18:18:17 +1300

Grow up? So, stop wearing your pants so low, get a tie and jacket, hold your head up in public, and oh, stop raping people. So childish. Really?

No, Tussock, it's about functional adults who are properly socialized in the concept that unconscious people, by definition, are unable to meaningfully…

stephen clover

Fri, 08 Nov 2013 18:17:51 +1300

Thanks for sharing the story of your experience, Helen. I'm so sorry you had to go through that ordeal.

nzlemming

Fri, 08 Nov 2013 18:01:21 +1300

RadioLoathed loses more advertisers

James Knuckey

Fri, 08 Nov 2013 17:35:04 +1300

The internet in general is not necessarily doing a good job.

The Roast Busters page is back on Facebook – they opened a new one on Wednesday. I'm not going to link to it... although perhaps I should. Direct all the outrage and hate of the internet at them.

I've…

tussock

Fri, 08 Nov 2013 17:20:22 +1300

I don't think I ever really got how decent a place PAS is before this. I wish I had something to add, but y'all are doing superbly. So is the internet in general, it should be said.

Perhaps a review. Triggers, sorry.

* The police lie. All the time. It's…

Paul Campbell

Fri, 08 Nov 2013 17:19:09 +1300

let's not also forget "supplying alcohol to a minor"

Jason Kemp

Fri, 08 Nov 2013 16:49:00 +1300

I didn’t know about this recent change to the Crimes Act ( Mar 2012) it almost certainly doesn’t apply but in view of current events it shows clear intention.

New Legislation: Crimes Amendment Act 2011

Section 195A – Failure to protect child or vulnerable adult

New section 195A of the…

Chris Waugh

Fri, 08 Nov 2013 15:33:36 +1300

Pablo at Kiwipolitico weighs in – and his final question is doing my head in given our plans – and a commenter leaves a link to this.

david kinniburgh

Fri, 08 Nov 2013 14:49:16 +1300

Morpheus: The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that…

Russell Brown

Fri, 08 Nov 2013 14:48:58 +1300

Not exactly on point, but: I’ve taken one positive lesson from this whole series of events, and the stories of Helen and others.

No, this week hasn't been all for nought. It has brought out these experiences, these really hard stories. A friend of mine related an experience yesterday on…

Hebe

Fri, 08 Nov 2013 14:45:09 +1300

Good on you for making your point on air. Listening to the clip, I know who I believe. (and I'm another who finds plenty to debate in many of your political views).

And it's fantastic that, being a right-point-of-view commentator, you have broken this whole rape culture issue out of…

MrHoward

Fri, 08 Nov 2013 14:05:45 +1300

This. So much this.

I thought I was reasonably culturally aware. I mean, I listen to Nat Rad & Radio Live in equal measure. I watch Fox and Firstline and the Daily Show and Southpark. I have friends with teenage kids and I engage and talk and try to get a…

Lucy Telfar Barnard

Fri, 08 Nov 2013 13:03:47 +1300

Helen, I feel for you.

Not exactly on point, but: I've taken one positive lesson from this whole series of events, and the stories of Helen and others.

For a long time I'd been suspicious of the motives of the commune in deciding not to report the paedophile to the…

Martin Brown

Fri, 08 Nov 2013 12:57:53 +1300

That is a terrible story. My God.

My respect for the Police pretty much died 30 years ago when I was a young radio announcer flatting in Dunedin with a high profile Breakfast announcer and others. Our radio station was quite tight with the cops for some reason, and so…

BenWilson

Fri, 08 Nov 2013 12:43:16 +1300

Perhaps they’re trying to maintain some shred of trust in the Police?

I am too. They're still who I'd go to if my daughter (if I had a daughter) came to me and told me that this had happened, and after talking about it we decided to try to get…

Jonathan Ibell

Fri, 08 Nov 2013 12:30:29 +1300

+1.

Good to see people (esp. men) from across the spectrum responding to such repugnant comments from Jackson and Tamihere (can't bring myself to call him "JT" – he's any not deserving of some cutesy nickname).

That said, at the local level it's so depressing hearing colleagues – who otherwise…

Helen Marie

Fri, 08 Nov 2013 12:29:25 +1300

Trigger warning for rape.

I love the word fuck. It has such a satisfying mouth feel and thwacking sound. I have no problem with it being used as a swear or for emphasis. I have however an actual physical reaction to the word rape, it brings with it a gut-twist…

James Francis

Fri, 08 Nov 2013 12:27:28 +1300

So here’s what I want.

I want the police in west Auckland investigated so thoroughly their skin turns red and they can’t sit for month. I’m sorry for those who will be put through the mill unfairly that is the price you pay for allowing your colleagues to be scum.…

Lucy Telfar Barnard

Fri, 08 Nov 2013 12:24:14 +1300

Well yes, can't say but I agree with you there Miche, though I don't think it entirely undermines the original point.

Also, ditto to what nzlemming said to Matthew Hooton. And I read that "he said he was going to make a scene" line as probably untrue or a misquote,…