Cracker: Hot Cross Words
124 Responses
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@Lucy: I think I made some point in the blog about not wanting to force people to work who didn't want to. Based on a very small sample of the people I spoke to about this last night, there are plenty of workers with nothing else to do at Easter who would rather get time and a half for a day. If that's the case, what's the harm? But if there's not, well we have a problem.
The other point I was trying to make was about placing a few more things in the "this is okay to open" category. Like butchers. And bottlestores. And/or supermarkets. Yeah just supermarkets would be fine.
@Islander. I guess this kinda responds to what you're saying too. There's a difference between being for the benefit of the workers, and being for the benefit of the workers in spite of what the workers want.
(and if people are so damned good at stocking up on stuff, why is petrol such a necessity... (don't answer, I know, I know...)
@Ben. I always have a stash of good wine and some spirits in the house. I call that being a grown up. What I don't always have is a few dozen beer. Which is what I feel like with a BBQ and friends. Not the good chardonnay. :)
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In Australia most people get paid extra for working weekends, you don't see them charging a surcharge
FWIW I was in QLD over Easter and some (most?) restaurants were applying public holiday surcharges (around 10% from memory)
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@Kyle: Interesting figures, although having a quick think, your model assumes that the total price of the meal is all swallowed up with the various costs, i.e. there's no profit.
I don't know what the profit is, and likewise don't know what a normal percentage of labour is (though a quick google and some fairly unauthoritive US sites suggested it was somewhere in the 20-30% vicinity), but I don't think it's going overboard to at least say the cafe owner is making more than it's costing them.
Also, as labour is a semi-fixed cost, a cafe that's busier (because the supermarkets are closed, the butchers etc) is going to make even more money from that surcharge.
But yeah, I'm not opposed to a surcharge (I didn't mention it in the original post), although I wonder what those who oppose Easter trading because they want to protect workers think about a cafe owner who is incentivised to open on the weekend, and make their poor suffering staff work whether they want to or not? ;)
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There's a difference between being for the benefit of the workers, and being for the benefit of the workers in spite of what the workers want.
Well yes, but the application of that to the Easter trading laws rather assumes facts not in evidence, doesn't it? It isn't like the NDU's out there campaigning for repeal, is it?
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Well yes, but the application of that to the Easter trading laws rather assumes facts not in evidence, doesn't it? It isn't like the NDU's out there campaigning for repeal, is it?
As I said, last night I spoke to workers, plural, who would rather work and get the time and a half. It probably betrays my libertarian past, but I believe that their individual wishes are just as valid as that of the NDU, for instance. And to tell them they can't "because it's good for them" doesn't work for me. (And don't assume this is an argument I would automatically extend any further by analogy than the facts up for debate here, I did say "libertarian past")
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It probably betrays my libertarian past, but I believe that their individual wishes are just as valid as that of the NDU, for instance
But what about the individual wishes of (say) the NDU members?
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jb,
Working public holidays
Any employment contract I've ever signed clearly defined rights and responsibilities i.e. requirement to work shifts/weekends/public holidays.Don't see the problem. Don't like it? Don't sign it. If you really DO object to working Sundays/religious holidays, then retail (and that's the real issue) may not be your thing.
Surcharging
Any business that can't factor the cost of 5 or 6 days of higher wages into the costs for the other 360 days and price accordingly is dysfunctional. And do I get a discounted menu in winter when staff levels are lower to match reduced customer demand? In a business environment where one compensates a cafe/restaurant owner for higher costs, I think I should...Keeping a cellar
Now you've got a house, Damian, you've got space to bunker beer for emergencies.
End of story. (;-) -
But what about the individual wishes of (say) the NDU members?
Yeah, absolutely important, that wasn't what I was saying. But the wishes of one (for a holiday) shouldn't have precedence over those who would quite like to work. I hasten to add that I don't think people should be forced to work on those few days either - which as I said in the original post, is trickier to ensure than it should be - so I don't think the people-who-want-to-work's wishes take precedence over those who don't, either.
@jb - I'm not denying it's possible to stock up on beer. I'm just questioning whether it should be necessary to. And given my argument is one which requires changing legislation because I was ever-so-slightly inconvenienced... I'm not super worried if nothing changes. It was just a white whine.
(Just like the fact that the end of daylight savings really reduces the amount of time one can spend out on the boat...stay tuned for my next riveting post...;)
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Don't see the problem. Don't like it? Don't sign it.
Yeah, I kinda agree with this. Certainly the libertarian angel/devil sitting on one shoulder does, and it's probably how I'd apply it to my own situation, where I consider I have a degree of negotiating ability and power. But I do think being able to contract out of stuff - say being able to contract out of not one week, but all four weeks of your annual leave - could be open to abuse: Not all employment relationships are created equal.
(At which point the libertarian angel/devil shudders with how far I've fallen...)
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But I do think being able to contract out of stuff - say being able to contract out of not one week, but all four weeks of your annual leave - could be open to abuse: Not all employment relationships are created equal.
Yeah, no kidding. Sheesh.
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Yeah, absolutely important, that wasn't what I was saying. But the wishes of one (for a holiday) shouldn't have precedence over those who would quite like to work.
I'd also like to point out that I'm rather pleased that there are certain places (looking across the road at the police station) that have to be fully staffed 365 daya a year, and you sign up with the full knowedge that you might just find yourself rostered on a stat holiday. If that's disagreeable, nobody is forcing yhou into the job at gunpoint.
Don't see the problem. Don't like it? Don't sign it. If you really DO object to working Sundays/religious holidays, then retail (and that's the real issue) may not be your thing.
Indeed - just as there are many jobs you should stay the hell away from you can't handle shift work (you'd be surprised how many people can't) or being up all night and sleeping most of the day.
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Damien, I confess that beer stocks run low far more frequently. Not being much of a beer drinker, perhaps I don't notice that. I tend to have an emergency reserve of at least 6 Heinekens, but that might not be the beer that is wanted on a particular occasion, nor enough to last for a whole weekend.
But if I was a beer drinker, I'm sure I'd take more care to keep a buffered reserve, if only to take advantage of discounts as they come up.
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As I said, last night I spoke to workers, plural, who would rather work and get the time and a half. It probably betrays my libertarian past, but I believe that their individual wishes are just as valid as that of the NDU, for instance.
I find it strange that the unions are seeking to protect these few stat days, when there's a line in the sand about protecting worker's time that's about four km that way, well and truly crossed years ago.
If protecting workers ability to have time off is that important, then it'd make sense to have it every weekend of the year rather than just the five or so that happen to have stat days. Personally Labour weekend isn't particularly different to me than any other weekend, just longer, but I work Monday to Friday and get stat days off, so its not an issue for me
Individual employment contracts aren't the answer, the power largely sits on one side of that equation. I like the weekend and late night retailing, so I don't think we should go back 30 years, but there must be some sensible ways to give employees a bit more power over when they have to work.
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But, more importantly, give us the names of these cheap booze sites you frequent. I'd hate to think I'm missing a bargain...
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The silly thing about stat holidays is that it's just so arbitrary where they are placed. It would make a lot more sense to me if workers were simply guaranteed to be able to take holidays of their own choice, and if they opted to work on those days they receive penal rates. That way all the workers who really do actually give a fig about when the Church thinks it's a good time to celebrate the crucifixion (always been a WTF moment for me), then they can go hang with their clique and feel sad and eat chocolate. If they happen to be Chinese, they'd probably pick Chinese New Year instead. Or Ramadan for the Muslims, and so on and forth. Maori might pick Waitangi Day or something else that matters to them. I would (if I were a worker rather than self-employed) most likely put all the holidays together and have one or two big breaks every year.
Even weekends are pretty arbitrary. What's 2 days out of 7 to anyone, really? Why 7? Why 2? I only organize my time that way because other people are stuck with it, and even then, only when I am actually going to see them. I'll work weekends if it makes sense, and take any breaks I like during the week to keep the R&R quotient up. My kids see me every day, during the day, we play for hours when it's convenient, when the sun is out, when the tides are right, when the traffic is light.
There's actually only a small subset of the jobs people do where parceling them in that way so that everyone's there at the same time is the most efficient. The way I see it, the work patterns built into our society are a major cost, they put huge strain on infrastructure because everything's done in these huge floods of humanity pouring in one direction or another. Sometimes that's good, but a lot of the time it isn't. Our town planning is hugely influenced by this built in inflexibility that traces back to arbitrary choices made centuries or even millenia ago.
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Totally agree, Ben. Archaic industrial-age stupidity most of it.
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I find it strange that the unions are seeking to protect these few stat days, when there's a line in the sand about protecting worker's time that's about four km that way, well and truly crossed years ago.
Its because of how a line was crossed years ago. It was approached for entirely reasonable goals, it was crossed in the rush and then disappeared "4 km that-a-way" in a seeming instant.
So getting rid of the 3 stats is a reasonable argument? Okay. What else will be riding on this horsie?
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I like shops being shut, I like everything being shut. But then, I remember when weekends were weekends, and people stayed at home and didn't fuck about DRIVING AROUND AIMLESSLY or even, god forbid, SHOPPING FOR A HOBBY. Beats the shit out of me why everything has to stay open all the time. It just means there are more people around to give me the shits. Curmudgeonly, me?
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Kia ora fellow-curmudgeony-type! From Big O, which doesnt have a shop within 30 minutes (unless you drive quite fast.)
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But then, I remember when weekends were weekends, and people stayed at home and didn't fuck about DRIVING AROUND AIMLESSLY or even, god forbid, SHOPPING FOR A HOBBY. Beats the shit out of me why everything has to stay open all the time.
There is something deeply appealing about this attitude.
(When he first moved here, my husband was horrified that a shop he went to closed at 2pm on a Saturday. 'What's the point of even opening?' he ranted rhetorically. I was nonplussed. This is what happens to you when you spend the first 30 years of your life able to buy fried chicken, shotgun shells and a 60 inch television from the same giant store at four o'clock on a Tuesday morning. I don't think we need to become that place.)
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This is what happens to you when you spend the first 30 years of your life able to buy fried chicken, shotgun shells and a 60 inch television from the same giant store at four o'clock on a Tuesday morning. I don't think we need to become that place.)
I've only been to one of those stores. It was awesome, but I was too intimidated to buy anything.
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I don't think we need to become that place.
I sincerely hope we never do. But. I see it moving that way, more and more, which makes me want to stay home, more and more.
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DRIVING AROUND AIMLESSLY
Actually they did. It was called going for a Sunday drive, and was a chance to use and show off the family car which had been cleaned and polished on Saturday.
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My father, who had an alpha male car (1956 Humber Super Snipe in 1956) only ever went OUT of Christchurch to show off. Yeah, the thing accomodated his six kids, and my Mother, and it was the car I learned to drive in.) It wasnt often on Sundays (because he was too busy working.) It made a lover*ly flower-hearse for his funeral in 1958 (brought New Brighton to a standstill.) I' ve written a story about that car ("Sometimes I Dream I'm Driving") and I'd still love to drive that original beast...
*spelling intentional
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I don't think we need to become that place.
I wouldn't object. You never know when you need to buy stuff. I certainly don't know when other people need to, when they're up and about, doing their thing. The world is full of shift workers, people working late, emergencies, insomniacs, people driving long distances, businesses that run 24/7, services that we expect to be fixed immediately no matter when they break, etc. The idea that everyone follows this lovely daylight oriented, 5 on 2 off existence is a quaint throwback to times when we didn't have electric light, and we actually believed in the book of Genesis. I frequently have to work all night long because people on the other side of the planet don't keep NZ hours. It wouldn't hurt anyone else if I could get fried chicken then.
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