I get emails from the supermarket in Mum's area when they open on…

In…

I'm impressed that you taught him to walk past the golden arches

I said it was open. I didn't say we went in it. Not because I have anything against it, but the icecream at gelateria Marghera is something you need to try before you die.

Sounds awesome. They can even manage to keep things open, too

Not quite. In Scandinavia at least, pretty much everything would be shut over Easter. Not to mention Epiphany, Ascension, Whitsunday and All Saint's Day. Plus Christmas of course. And that's just teh Christian ones.

Sounds awesome. They can even manage to keep things open, too.

And again: no, they don't. In Southern Europe at least most shops are closed on Sundays. And you won't find a thing open for Easter in Italy, in fact I remember a fairly epic walk with my son to…

They can even manage to keep things open, too.

I went to Spain for a holiday once and was rather taken aback to find that everything did close for a three-hour siesta in the middle of the day. I'd assumed it was some sort of urban legend that didn't apply…

Oh, you'd hate living in Europe, with their 5-6 weeks annual leave as standard.

Sounds awesome. They can even manage to keep things open, too. I guess it's because they don't have their timetables dictated by the proletarians of the industrial revolution, who fought nay died! so that everyone, even…

cheese-eating surrender monkeys

I love that phrase

Four weeks sounds like an awful lot

Oh, you'd hate living in Europe, with their 5-6 weeks annual leave as standard.

And look! look how backward they are! Gosh, we really should model ourselves more closely on the US, with their standard two weeks. I thank our lucky stars we…

Ummmm, how are "tokens for x days off during the year" any different to annual leave?

Law could specify they can only be used one day at a time, not in blocks.

Ummmm, how are "tokens for x days off during the year" any different to annual leave? Did I miss something or are you just arguing for zero public holidays and 5 weeks legislated annual leave?

Something like it. There's only one weeks of stats – I don't know what the…

(Just so everything is locally adapted...)

We will not rest until New Zealand has as many public holidays as Spain

And siestas?

No, Martin, but I'm really scratching my head to see why these are such special cases. If you want to make a social good argument, all well and good – all I'm suggesting is a little consistency.

I'm right with you there, Craig. That list of special cases seems pretty,…

But more stuff is open at Easter.

Simon, do you think that's partially a function of population size?

Village life in the UK, centred around the pub, would perhaps suggest otherwise.

And even in the smallest Asian hamlet public life rarely stops at 6pm.

And since there is no way to completely shut down hospitals, prisons and the police force (as examples), there is no point in public holidays?

No, Martin, but I'm really scratching my head to see why these are such special cases. If you want to make a social good argument,…

There are other holidays (ANZAC day, Easter) that I don't feel strongly about but I still appreciate having a day when I know the whole family will be off work and school without needing complex negotiations.

There is NO sense of community when the basis for some of stat holidays is a dying( christian) religion and very few of us are even interested in the bloody (word used advisedly) thing

For starters, the basis for most of our religious stat holidays is as much heathen as…

And while the surchage does frustrate me – the people that charge on Sunday are…

You know, I never thought there were so many people (on this thread anyway) annoyed by public holidays. Lucky for you I'm not a dictator, or you'd really be suffering.

We will not rest until New Zealand has as many public holidays as Spain.

Shut down everything or let everyone make up their own minds.

And since there is no way to completely shut down hospitals, prisons and the police force (as examples), there is no point in public holidays?

You know, I never thought there were so many people (on this thread anyway)…

Poorer families sometimes actually do the main celebration after Christmas, because they want take advantage of all the sales, and have a merrier event, rather than one where their poverty is rubbed in their faces.

Up to a point, Ben, but many of us bourgoise soft pedal the big Christmas…

I don't think there's anything wrong with Christmas, or any of the…

The rural – urban divide...especially if we throw small towns into the rural quarter.

Working years are different when the work is seasonally-based (whether farming, fishing, or tourism.) But – given the fact that the majority of ANZers live…

There's a value in shared statutory holidays.

I agree – just not *all* the current ones.

I think there are. I think most people are doing roughly the same things at Christmas in New Zealand.

Well, apart from the police officers and doctors and nurses who are expected to be on call on Christmas Day. If anything, as Damian said in his OP, it's the ad…

And so, in the meantime, I find your comments out of touch and current reality. There are no 'lives ..lived along the same contours' to any archipelago-wide extent: there is not any generality wherein/whereby "people...have something in common."

I think there are. I think most people are doing roughly the…

I can understand what people are saying about holidays bringing people together as a society. But my feeling…

But... my house is so much more comfortable, and I can choose who I invite over. And I'm in charge of the music.

Oh, I can do that too, it's just I have the choice whether to do that or perhaps some nights wander outside, sit at a buzzing cafe…

My intimate community living just has nothing to do with what you envision-
(for instance: one of my closest…

Then you know very little about Kai Tahu: I live in a very small community – and I am the only Kai Tahu living here. Over the years, and with lots of neighbourly support (we include Lativan/German/Irish
and USA people here), I have…

Anyway, as my first post implied, my experience living in a northern hemisphere country has demonstrated clearly that these festivals mark seasons, and the religious element is window dressing. We all know this of course, but celebrating halloween when all the…

this is fuckwittery. For very many reasons, this just never happens.

There is NO sense of community when the basis for some of stat holidays is a dying( christian) religion and very few of…

edit: Just in New Zealand I mean.

I think that stat-days-off are in a state of flux- as are rather a lot of other matters we current generations (given…

Indeed, Martin. You know, the idea of a pluralistic society where anyone would question why we all should honour Christian religious festivals thanks to, effectively, a historical accident is really fucking appalling. Just because I'm a devout Catholic doesn't mean you should have to be.

But I hurl myself into…

life bubbles until late around shops, cafes and the streets

But... my house is so much more comfortable, and I can choose who I invite over. And I'm in charge of the music.

(This post has been brought to you by I Am Fucking Old and Pathetic, Incorporated.)

It kills community and I love the way everywhere here in Asia, and across much of Europe & in places like NYC, community thrives, people communicate and life bubbles until late around shops, cafes and the streets.

I was fascinated by that in NYC. I arrived there at about 7pm, went…

Indeed, Martin. You know, the idea of a pluralistic society where anyone would question why we all should honour Christian religious festivals thanks to, effectively, a historical accident is really fucking appalling. Just because I'm a devout Catholic doesn't mean you should have to be.

It does raise the question…

You know, community.

One of the things that most irks me in New Zealand is the way everyone retreats into their boxes at 6pm, mostly not to be seen till the sun comes up again. It kills community and I love the way everywhere here in Asia, and across much…

god forbid, SHOPPING FOR A HOBBY.

I hear your pain and I have a song for you, and all of us who really, really loathe shopping.

Mojo Nixon – Burn Down the Malls

I believe there is a value in having public holidays (secular ones if you will) that we can all share.

Agree – like Waitangi Day. Others seem to rely on everyone "sharing" the same preferences and cultures.

I really do like the idea of having some days where everything stops all at once.

This – yes.

On the contrary, it means people can share the holidays that mean something to them.

I see a value in that we, as a society, have a set of public holidays that are fixed whether they mean something to you personally or not. Take Anzac Day as an example. It…

I was arguing against the idea that we should all have an individual stack of public holiday tokens that we could invoke at will. I believe there is a value in having public holidays (secular ones if you will) that we can all share.

And how does having tokens make…

If your boss is saying "Jim's willing to work Easter and he's got more kids than you and, hey, there's a recession on..." how likely are you to insist that your family time is more important than this "voluntary" work day?

This kind of pressure comes on people all the…

Just because I'm a devout Catholic doesn't mean you should have to be.

Certainly not and I wasn't referring specifically to religious festivals. I said public holidays but yes, in some cases they do overlap with religious festivals. Although I believe that for most people, the festivals' religious origins have…

What kind of society would we have where we can't even agree on having public holidays at the same time. As far as I'm concerned that's kinda the point. You know, community.

Indeed, Martin. You know, the idea of a pluralistic society where anyone would question why we all should…

really like Ben's idea that everyone gets an allowance of stat days that they can use throughout the year as they please

What kind of society would we have where we can't even agree on having public holidays at the same time. As far as I'm concerned that's kinda the…

I really like Ben's idea…

Aimful driving is boring. Give me aimless or give me…

but it seems a peculiarly privileged way of looking at things to assume that everyone doing shiftwork or beavering away on a public holiday has the same sorts of "choices" as you or I do.

I don't assume that. And I don't accept that my choice of timetable has…

Also, I hate 3am feeds with all my soul, and I've only been doing them for three weeks. :)

Danielle, they don't last forever, and I'm impressed that you can feed, think and type at the same time.

What nightworker owls know is – we only work well in a different part of the continium of work time (and, more importantly, we DONT work well at earlier times.) I can go catch fish at – to me, absurdly early…

a quaint throwback to times when we didn't have electric light

Quite a few people in the labour movement fought very hard, and some of them died, for the quaintness of regulated working hours. It's not like I don't see the necessity of some things in society being accessible at…

I don't think we need to become that place.

I wouldn't object. You never know when you need to buy stuff. I certainly don't know when other people need to, when they're up and about, doing their thing. The world is full of shift workers, people working late, emergencies, insomniacs,…

DRIVING AROUND AIMLESSLY

Actually they did. It was called going for a Sunday drive, and was a chance to use and show off the family car which had been cleaned and polished on Saturday.

This is what happens to you when you spend the first 30 years of your life able to buy fried chicken, shotgun shells and a 60 inch television from the same giant store at four o'clock on a Tuesday morning. I don't think we need to become that place.)

I've…

But then, I remember when weekends were weekends, and people stayed at home and didn't fuck about DRIVING AROUND AIMLESSLY or even, god forbid, SHOPPING FOR A HOBBY. Beats the shit out of me why everything has to stay open all the time.

There is something deeply appealing about this…

I find it strange that the unions are seeking to protect these few stat days, when there's a line in the sand about protecting worker's time that's about four km that way, well and truly crossed years ago.

Its because of how a line was crossed years ago. It was…

As I said, last night I spoke to workers, plural, who would rather work and get the time and a half. It probably betrays my libertarian past, but I believe that their individual wishes are just as valid as that of the NDU, for instance.

I find it strange that…

Yeah, absolutely important, that wasn't what I was saying. But the wishes of one (for a holiday) shouldn't have precedence over those who would quite like to work.

I'd also like to point out that I'm rather pleased that there are certain places (looking across the road at the police…

But I do think being able to contract out of stuff – say being able to contract out of not one week, but all four weeks of your annual leave – could be open to abuse: Not all employment relationships are created equal.

Yeah, no kidding. Sheesh.

Don't see the problem. Don't like it? Don't sign it.

Yeah, I kinda agree with this. Certainly the libertarian angel/devil sitting on one shoulder does, and it's probably how I'd apply it to my own situation, where I consider I have a degree of negotiating ability and power. But I…

But what about the individual wishes of (say) the NDU members?

Yeah, absolutely important, that wasn't what I was saying. But the wishes of one (for a holiday) shouldn't have precedence over those who would quite like to work. I hasten to add that I don't think people should be…

Don't see the problem. Don't like it? Don't sign it. If you really DO object to working Sundays/religious holidays, then retail (and that's the real issue) may not be your…

It probably betrays my libertarian past, but I believe that their individual wishes are just as valid as that of the NDU, for instance

But what about the individual wishes of (say) the NDU members?

Well yes, but the application of that to the Easter trading laws rather assumes facts not in evidence, doesn't it? It isn't like the NDU's out there campaigning for repeal, is it?

As I said, last night I spoke to workers, plural, who would rather work and get the time…

There's a difference between being for the benefit of the workers, and being for the benefit of the workers in spite of what the workers want.

Well yes, but the application of that to the Easter trading laws rather assumes facts not in evidence, doesn't it? It isn't like the…

I don't know what the profit is, and likewise don't know what a normal percentage of labour is (though a…

In Australia most people get paid extra for working weekends, you don't see them charging a surcharge

FWIW I was in QLD over Easter and some (most?) restaurants were applying public holiday surcharges (around 10% from memory)

planned power cut that hit Tokoroa every Boxing Day morning for a number of years

Bastards. How could people cook meth without electricity?

I once ran out of cigarettes on a Saturday afternoon in Berlin. An excellent way to learn about Ladenschlußgesetz

Curiously, having copious amounts of booze on the property at all times has…

How about if we just make alcohol and BBQ supplies (it is, after all, the last Friday before daylight savings ends) an 'essential item' under the Act?

Surely thats redundant... alcohol IS a BBQ supply, no?

If people don't want to drink or work on the Friday and Sunday then DON'T DRINK ON THE FRIDAY AND THE SUNDAY AND LEAVE THE REST OF US ALONE!!!!

Hint: not working isn't as easy as not drinking.

@Kyle: I think the point is that the 15/20% is extorionate (or at least, less dramatically, higher than it should be) given that labour is only one factor in the total cost equation. The bacon, lettuce and tomatoes purchased the day before didn't cost them 20% extra, for instance..

Well…

@Richard: I like to think I did what was suggested by Haydn suggested afterwards – I just charge more *all of the time* so that I don't have to fart around with special charges.

@Kyle: I…

I did buy ahead this year after being caught out last year somewhat.

But then was caught in a morning crush at…

Sunday trading (in alcohol) only started in December 1999. Must've been hell for some before then.

Giving the sight of supermarkets on the Thursday and Saturday, you'd think that people were stocking up in advance of some sort of natural disaster.

Or perhaps people were stocking up on the last…

I think I addressed the response about stocking up in advance. If I didn't, let me clarify, simplify: Why the fuck should I? Yup, that's my point.

Sunday trading (in alcohol) only started in December 1999. Must've been hell for some before then.

I was quite happy…

Screw the impact on domestic violence, crime stats, road deaths and general mayhem that alcohol causes, a member of the grossly self-entitled chattering classes is incapable of planning ahead to stock up on Easter Sunday!

I think I addressed the response about stocking up in advance. If I didn't, let…

And they bug for the reason that: if you're smart enough to calulate the percentage you need to add to every purchase on a given day in order to overcome the expenses of paying staff time-and-a-half and a day in lieu, then, you should be…

Even though they probably can't sell advertising

My wife rather dryly noted that the number of scheduled programmes appeared to have doubled.

Screw the impact on domestic violence, crime stats, road deaths and general mayhem that alcohol causes, a member of the grossly self-entitled chattering classes is incapable of planning ahead to stock up on Easter Sunday!

If they're that much of a concern to parliament, you think they'd do something about…

We must drop everything and change the laws to end this outrage now!

If I have to work, but can't buy a box of beers afterwards, why should people get to watch TV? If you really want to watch TV, surely you could tape some the day before, like I'm supposed to do with the wine.

But only if it runs off batteries…