Up Front by Emma Hart

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Up Front: The Up-Front Guides: The Weasel Translator

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  • Ben McNicoll,

    Which is also what I thought of the Campbell Live vox pops… the NOs seemed embarrased by their position and were out of there quick, and you got the sense they knew the culture had moved on.

    Grey Lynn • Since May 2007 • 115 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell,

    If you live in Dunedin all your MPs are in the YES camp but one 'UNKNOWN' - drop him a note at Michael.Woodhouse@parliament.govt.nz

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2608 posts Report Reply

  • Lyndon Hood,

    Just actually looking at the standing orders on voting and matching it to my memory, I think it ultimately depends on the parties whether MPs vote individually. They can still split their vote if the speaker takes votes by party, and I imagine they can still vote as a block if the speaker “considers that the subject of a vote is to be treated as a conscience issue” and takes a personal vote.

    That said, it is exactly the sort of thing that gets treated a conscience issue. So we can expect the excitement of people walking through doors by way of voting.

    [edit: or rather, through doorways. it's not that exciting]

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 1115 posts Report Reply

  • richard, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    Romney-esque dog-fucker analogies either

    Surely that is Santorumesque? He is the "man on dog" guy. Romney is the "dog on car" guy.

    Not looking for New Engla… • Since Nov 2006 • 268 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __, in reply to Lyndon Hood,

    we can expect the excitement of people walking through doors by way of voting.

    [edit: or rather, through doorways. it’s not that exciting]

    Wouldn't it be great if someone just locked the "No" door? End of problem. :-)

    This is a human rights issue. I can't believe we're having to have this discussion.

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3887 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Telfar Barnard,

    Wow that video footage was as depressing as usual. I am so bleeding sick of weasel from politicians. When they're still repeatedly saying "I haven't given it a moment's thought" despite having had quite a few moments available to give it such thought, oye, I just want to shake them! Why is it so hard to be honest? Surely any politician watching that can see that Richard Prosser, despite not even being able to see the right side of the fence from dark and narrow little valley he's lost himself in, looks like less of a twit than all of those sitting on it (and also trying desperately to look like they're not sitting on it, just leaning, and hoping that they can arrange themselves - or the fence - so that it looks like they're leaning from the same side as where the viewer stands...)

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 580 posts Report Reply

  • Phil fryer,

    For me, the issue a bit like gay's in the military, anyone dumb enuff, to wanna -
    should be able to, but, its a bit of a 1st world issue, don't imagine its a hot topic, after the top 75 countries in the world economies,but seriously, humor is often the best sorta protest,to "clarify" the "issues"!
    & Graeme E, welcome to the long of wishful thinkers, on the subject or integrity in Politics

    Laingholm • Since Mar 2011 • 34 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Phil fryer,

    should be able to, but, its a bit of a 1st world issue, don’t imagine its a hot topic

    With all due and sincere respect, I’m fucking sick of hearing that from (as often as not) enormously privileged straight people. You know what? I have no less respect for Russell and Fiona because they’ve raised two great chaps and faced their full measure of adversity without benefit of clergy or a civil unification. But, gee, isn’t it great that it was their choice?

    Telling me to sit at the back of the bus and be fucking grateful that someone deigned to put cushions on the seat is annoying. Marriage equality doesn’t have to mean a damn thing to you, but please pay the courtesy of acknowledging it does matter to me.

    ETA: And none of that means I don't also fully own my own privilege in being a gay man in a country where that doesn't make me a criminal - or a corpse. But, hell... it is possible to figuratively walk and chew gum at the same time. Isn't it?

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Richard Wain,

    As ol' Mikey Havoc always used to say about the National Party minister... Secret Smile Tony Ryall... Sheesh.

    Since Nov 2006 • 155 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Telfar Barnard, in reply to Phil fryer,

    its a bit of a 1st world issue

    Also, I'm a bit tired tired lately of hearing this line presented as a reason why I or anyone else shouldn't care about any given issue.
    1. It's not just a first world issue. People in developing countries have their own debates about the topic; their politics are as capable of including such social and "moral" debates as ours. South Africa, for example, has seen its way to allowing same-sex marriage despite not yet being considered a first world country. Clearly it mattered enough to some people there for it to be passed into law.
    2. Even if it were a first world issue, how would that matter? New Zealand is a first world nation. Given that our MPs can only make laws for New Zealand, the majority of their work will always (or at least I hope always) be things that could be considered "first-world issues".

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 580 posts Report Reply

  • Dinah Dunavan,

    Some time in the past, over 20 years ago, I was at a family dinner with a (now former) MP. He talked about supporting choice in abortion law. At the time the new law was being debated he had been warned that his electorate would not support his pro-choice vote. That the (silent) moral majority would be so angry at his stance that he would lose his seat, or his majority would be drastically reduced. The reality was that his majority increased quite substantially at the next election.

    So what does this tell me? That the silent moralist are not in the majority, and/or that election night gains have little to do with how an MP votes on one or more issues.

    It is just weasely for an MP to refuse to state what they believe in.

    Dunedin • Since Jun 2008 • 186 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart, in reply to Dinah Dunavan,

    That the silent moralist are not in the majority, and/or that election night gains have little to do with how an MP votes on one or more issues.

    It is just weasely for an MP to refuse to state what they believe in.

    Indeed. And we have the polling data on this. When John Key says he thinks his electorate is opposed, what he's saying is that he reckons they're twice as bigoted as the rest of the country. The only demographic that has less than 50% support for gay marriage is "over 55". And "Helensville", apparently.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4650 posts Report Reply

  • Keir Leslie,

    On the other hand, Helensville is substantially more rightwing than average in NZ, & presumably older than average. So I dunno, I do think that Key may be right in that marriage equality might not have a majority in Helensville.

    Since Jul 2008 • 1452 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to simon g,

    Never mind their "principles", it's the basic intelligence of our MPs that astounds.

    To me it's the basic cowardice, because I can't for a minute believe any one of the people who said they hadn't thought about it were telling the truth. To that end, Horan was at least not actually lying. He is indeed a homophobic wanker, something I'll find amusing to the end of my days considering how many men I've seen him rolling around with wearing nothing more than rubber undies, and how many of them he tore off.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10641 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    By amusing I don't mean I approve of him being homophobic, or find that funny. It's just ironic. There's massive psychological overcompensation going on with that guy.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10641 posts Report Reply

  • steve gray,

    Will louisa Wall be up front about her own dearly held Christian views and that she is supporting this bill, and let us be honest, there is only 2 bits of difference between the civil unions act and the marriage act, 2 differences, it seems an awful lot of energy is going into this bill, which is happening because Louisa is a Christian and wants to marry in her 'Gods' eyes. waste of energy and time.

    Wellington • Since Jul 2012 • 5 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to steve gray,

    Will louisa Wall be up front about her own dearly held Christian views and that she is supporting this bill, and let us be honest, there is only 2 bits of difference between the civil unions act and the marriage act, 2 differences, it seems an awful lot of energy is going into this bill, which is happening because Louisa is a Christian and wants to marry in her ‘Gods’ eyes. waste of energy and tim

    Would you be rather more explicit than this gush?
    Thank you steve gray
    and welome to PAS-

    cheers - Keri, resident asexual-

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart, in reply to steve gray,

    which is happening because Louisa

    unless this is a sentence which goes on to say, "wrote the bill and put it in the ballot", bullshit. It's happening because it's time, and past time. This is history, Steve. You can't even make a convincing case that it doesn't matter to you.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4650 posts Report Reply

  • Isabel Hitchings, in reply to steve gray,

    It really doesn't matter to me who wrote the bill or whether its passing would affect them in any way. It also doesn't matter how I feel about marriage as an institution. All that matters is that some same sex couples do wish to marry and there is no just reason why they should not be able to.

    Christchurch • Since Jul 2007 • 719 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to Isabel Hitchings,

    All that matters is that some same sex couples do wish to marry and there is no just reason why they should not be able to.

    Tautoko!

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Will de Cleene, in reply to Graeme Edgeler,

    I would welcome your arguments on why you consider these matters to be issues of conscience.

    These matters do fit the historical mould of conscience votes. i.e. morality laws. The HLR, CU and most previous alcohol reform bills have all been conscience votes.

    Raumati • Since Jul 2011 • 107 posts Report Reply

  • izogi,

    Yeah. Me and and Colin Craig: we're not going to surprise you with our views on gay marriage.Yeah. Me and and Colin Craig: we're not going to surprise you with our views on gay marriage.

    What have I missed about why so many people care about what Colin Craig thinks? (Not criticising you, Emma, but he just keeps coming up all over lately!) Few people voted for him, and aside from all the cash he has to blow, he doesn't have a say in any direct way. Is this just a case of media wanting to give equal airing time to the most accessible and obviously extreme critic of whatever's going on, no matter how irrelevant they might be?

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 1139 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to izogi,

    why so many people care about what Colin Craig thinks

    Most don't. Media care because he may be National's only viable hope of forming a government next election. And he has all that money to spend on advertising..

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19688 posts Report Reply

  • steve gray, in reply to Emma Hart,

    there are only two differences betwixt the marriage act and the civil unions act. one is already being addressed with the adoption act bipartisan party review. as people seem obsessed with finding out if people are against change due to religious reasons, I have heard that Louisa is religious and want to know what her motivation is. And shouting 'IT"S TIME' is just disingenuous. we are gay, not straight, and nor do we want or need heteronormalized existences.
    x and hi keri.

    Wellington • Since Jul 2012 • 5 posts Report Reply

  • Tess Rooney,

    Hey all. Does anyone know where I can find the actual bill. I looked on Parliaments website and it talked about the intent of the bill but there was nothing more specific than that.

    Since May 2009 • 267 posts Report Reply

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