Up Front by Emma Hart

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Up Front: Say When

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  • Tom Beard, in reply to Jacqui Dunn,

    Possibly, at least from people I know. Same with spinach in the teeth (highly unlikely in my case), BO and undone fly.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 1040 posts Report Reply

  • Jacqui Dunn, in reply to Tom Beard,

    Possibly, at least from people I know.

    I would suggest that their reaction would be readable - no words necessary. Or, if words, along the lines of "there's only a week between a bad haircut and a good one".

    Deepest, darkest Avondale… • Since Jul 2010 • 585 posts Report Reply

  • Pat Hackett,

    Before my life-raft sinks, I would like to point out than men and women alike are to happy to refer to Helen Mirren as the poster-girl for good-looking older women. How much does Mirren's longer locks play a part in this impression (subconciously). If she had a Judi Dench cut, would the impression of Mirren still be the same?

    Also, most women I know are happy to point out when they think their husband's hair is shite (too long, too short, too grey etc) as well as when other aspects of his grooming are not to their desire (mustache, goatee, sideburns, nasal hair, eyebrows, ear hair etc). But one mention of his preference for her hair, and all hell breaks loose.

    Auckland • Since Oct 2010 • 95 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    I'm with Paul. There's nothing wrong with saying you don't find it attractive. That's not the same as saying everyone won't find it so, or that it should be changed.

    Criticism of appearance might be a affronting when unasked for, but when it is asked for it should be honest. If I'm looking scruffy, and I wonder why women aren't showing any interest, I'd actually rather know that it's the scruffiness causing it, rather than, say, my offensive opinions or my sleazy behaviour.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10641 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle, in reply to Pat Hackett,

    How much does Mirren’s longer locks play a part in this impression (subconciously).

    Fuck only knows. The point is, you don't get to hand out haircut instructions unless asked.

    Also: 'women are like this, men are like that' anecdata makes me stabby.

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • recordari,

    Just to clarify, I don't actually approach strangers in the street and make NTM comments on their hair, or any other aspect of their appearance. That was to add a satirical air to my post, to hopefully reduce the backswing.

    This is, and rightfully so, a sensitive area, because making apparently innocent comments about people's appearance can very quickly fall into the category of 'judgey-pantedness', 'oppressive social normativeness', or other long words ending in 'ness' (dumbarsedness 4egs). While that is something we have to come to terms with as social human beings, it would be good if the instruction manual had a bit more detail on this subject.

    I'm looking forward to that FAQ I've heard rumour of.

    AUCKLAND • Since Dec 2009 • 2607 posts Report Reply

  • Mike Hollywood,

    I'm thinking you should have left it where it was Pat ... that first hole was pretty deep.

    Since May 2009 • 51 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso, in reply to Mike Hollywood,

    that first hole was pretty deep.

    Yes but to keep digging is very masculine, hence becoming.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    Also, most women I know are happy to point out when they think their husband's hair is shite (too long, too short, too grey etc) as well as when other aspects of his grooming are not to their desire

    There is a difference between me saying "Honey, I think you look better clean-shaven," or him saying "I like you with your hair long," and saying "All women should have long hair," or "All men should be beardless." The former is fine, the latter not so much.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4650 posts Report Reply

  • recordari, in reply to giovanni tiso,

    Yes but to keep digging is very masculine, hence becoming.

    Step 1. Awareness. ;-)

    Here, have my spade, I'm trying to give them up.

    AUCKLAND • Since Dec 2009 • 2607 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen, in reply to Deborah,

    but that’s a technical mismatch between what you want to achieve, and what you have achieved

    That's the key. And it's also part of Emma's original post. The question is, is there a point at which Emma's desire to wear one style clothes mismatches her desire to conform :P.

    While I agree telling older wimmin to grow their hair is asking for a slapping, the point made is that if you look at different age groups there is a distinct changing of style. When someone breaks that mould it stands out. And you can sometimes disguise which grouping you are in by adopting the style of a different group.

    Whether you should is another question entirely. Actually scratch that you definitely should and frequently. For one thing it's fun messing with people's perceptions and for another it's the only way you discover other styles.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4451 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen, in reply to BenWilson,

    than, say, my offensive opinions or my sleazy behaviour.

    Yeah 'cos I hate it when I'm trying for sleazy and fail

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4451 posts Report Reply

  • Rich Lock,

    As an aside I love shopping for clothes with my wife and will happily stand for hours watching her try on things, offering opinions and carrying bags.

    Ok, now you're just trolling.

    back in the mother countr… • Since Feb 2007 • 2728 posts Report Reply

  • Megan Wegan, in reply to Deborah,

    I’ve always worried about that “old ladies have short hair” thing. I have curly, frizzy, insane hair? I still haven’t figured out how to make that "appropriate" at 33, let alone at 63.

    Welly • Since Jul 2008 • 1275 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen, in reply to Danielle,

    you don’t get to hand out haircut instructions unless asked

    Ok but when I'm shopping with my wife and standing outside the changing rooms I have sometimes commented on the clothes being tried on by other women, sometimes negatively - it's never been received with anything other than pleasure and perhaps relief ... because the sales assistant busily telling the woman she looks simply wonderful is full of crap.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4451 posts Report Reply

  • Jacqui Dunn, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    Oh no! Was that you?

    Deepest, darkest Avondale… • Since Jul 2010 • 585 posts Report Reply

  • Deborah, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    [Emma's] desire to conform

    Hmmm.... umm.... are we talking about the same Emma here?

    New Lynn • Since Nov 2006 • 1445 posts Report Reply

  • Megan Wegan, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    yeah, but again, that's the difference between helpful advice, and saying "you must have your hair like this".

    It's the difference between saying "that's not entirely flattering around the buttockular area" and "your ass should be smaller, you giant heifer".

    Welly • Since Jul 2008 • 1275 posts Report Reply

  • recordari,

    Look, someone's made this helpful instructional video.

    AUCKLAND • Since Dec 2009 • 2607 posts Report Reply

  • Martin Lindberg, in reply to Rich Lock,

    Ok, now you're just trolling.

    My thoughts exactly.

    Stockholm • Since Jul 2009 • 802 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    While I agree telling older wimmin to grow their hair is asking for a slapping, the point made is that if you look at different age groups there is a distinct changing of style. When someone breaks that mould it stands out.

    This. And yes, it's not about conforming to the 'should', just knowing when the 'should' kicks in so I at least know if I'm conforming or not.

    Also. The TOFO FAQ. Every time I type that I think about how much Gio likes acronyms.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4650 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen, in reply to Martin Lindberg,

    Ok, now you're just trolling.

    My thoughts exactly.

    Not even!

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4451 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    Megan, I think we should take Bart Drunk Shoe-Shopping with us.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4650 posts Report Reply

  • Jackie Clark, in reply to Emma Hart,

    In a fit of extreme envy, I have thought about skyping you tomorrow with my own TO. But I can't say that you lot will appreciate my breasticles as much as I do.

    Mt Eden, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3136 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen, in reply to Emma Hart,

    just knowing when the ‘should’ kicks in

    Maybe this is more dependent on whose opinions you actually care about.

    Not meant as an “I don’t care what you think” statement but instead recognising that at 15 you care tremendously what the 15 year old girl next to you in class thinks, whereas at forty-mumble you may care more what your colleagues at work think or what the other parents at the PTA think or what your partner thinks when you go out to dinner with them.

    Perhaps the real difference as you get older is realising that those groups may be different and your level of caring what they think about you may be different.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4451 posts Report Reply

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