Up Front by Emma Hart

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Up Front: Say When

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  • Deborah,

    In the room the women come and go
    Talking of Michelangelo....

    For I have known them all already, known them all:—
    Have known the evenings, mornings, afternoons,
    I have measured out my life with coffee spoons

    Triple merge.

    New Lynn • Since Nov 2006 • 1445 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __, in reply to recordari,

    As an antidote to Prufrock, I've always liked that song by Pete Seeger about old age.

    Old age is golden, I think I've heard said
    But sometimes I wonder as I crawl into bed
    My ears in a drawer, my teeth in a cup
    My eyes on the table until I wake up

    and

    When I was younger, my slippers were red
    I could kick up my heels right over my head
    When I was older my slippers were blue
    But still I could dance the whole night thru

    Now I am old, my slippers are black
    I huff to the store and I puff my way back
    But never you laugh, I don't mind at all
    I'd rather be huffing than not puff at all

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3887 posts Report Reply

  • Jackie Clark, in reply to Ross Mason,

    No, Ross, I say so. It also must be said that Emma's glorious tits are only to be described such because Emma, of course, is glorious.

    Mt Eden, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3136 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    I'm turning 40 in ten days but I figure you're only as old as you feel inside, and since inside I feel 65 the passport age doesn't seem at all daunting.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen Judd,

    A USENET classic:

    When I am an old man I shall screw midgets
    I shall stuff both my ears with taupe mint-flavored panties
    And I shall beg my pension money, while wearing a monkey suit,
    From alarmed pedestrians in the safety islands of urban traffic arteries,
    And spend it on riotous living in marbled penthouses,
    And on mailorder gewgaws, and say we've no money for church.
    I shall sit down on the pavement for no apparent reason,
    And gobble up frozen samples of my fellow citizen's expectorations
    And run my cane up the nearest furry mammal
    To make up for the inhibitions of my youth.
    I shall wander disoriented in a bathrobe
    Into other people's gardens
    And take a whizz there.
    You can wear terrible shirts and grow more fat.
    Be my guest. And eat a pound of sugar all at once
    Or better yet: three of lard.
    I practiced these things a little yesterday
    And now am safely housed in a concrete blockhouse,
    With quilts and padding on the walls
    And bars on the doors.
    I have a companion, though. She wears a purple dress
    Has a surprised-looking Pekinese on a leash
    and three pounds of Polish sausages in her red hat.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 3122 posts Report Reply

  • Ngaire BookieMonster, in reply to Emma Hart,

    I read Sidney Sheldon at 13 so I'm pretty sure in a short five years I shall be dissolute and on the streets...

    At the foot of Mt Te Aroh… • Since Nov 2009 • 174 posts Report Reply

  • Islander,

    Yessss! And even, Yay! Thank you Stephen J!

    As someone who feels entirely comfortable in my heavilybuilt body, and doesnt mind that bits are sagging or greying,* I’d urge Emma et al to do whatever, dress however, feels comfortable & good. You’ve got great boobs? Flaunt ’em!

    Life is too short to live within other people’s expectations.

    *I’m really pissed off at the bits that arnt working properly however-

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen,

    From what I've seen over the years most folks look better in clothes than they do naked, especially as those years add up. And for most folks it takes years to figure out what really makes them look better as opposed to what just fits. And then for most folks it takes years to discover sometimes there is a reason well designed clothes cost more and more years to actually be able to afford those clothes. And it takes years for folks to figure out what their style is, as opposed to what is meant to suit them.

    All of which seems to make getting older a good thing from the perspective of looking good in clothes.

    But none of that has anything to do with how much cleavage should be shown. If you feel good in the clothes and they make you happy when you wear them and they make you look like the person you want to be seen as ... then why the hell not show some flesh.

    And Megan is right too, it doesn't matter what shape you are, you can and should enjoy wearing clothes you like.

    And Emma I've seen you and seriously if you don't stop deriding your figure I will have to give you a good talking to ... including finger waving!

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4451 posts Report Reply

  • Megan Wegan, in reply to Tom Beard,

    Yet there's an element among the "slut-shamers" that seems to loathe bodies. They're not only uncomfortable with their own bodies, but uncomfortable with other women who are comfortable with theirs. Sex can be okay, but only when it's in the context of "intimacy", and not when tainted by such shallow, dirty things as physical attraction.

    It's also about control. Women who are comfortable with themselves are much harder to control. Women like that are messy.

    Welly • Since Jul 2008 • 1275 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    And Emma I've seen you and seriously if you don't stop deriding your figure I will have to give you a good talking to ... including finger waving!

    Let me be more explicit. (Ha, try and stop me, etc.) I do have a lovely figure, IMO. Other people are free to not find it so, that's fine. But it's along curvy lines, and requires a waist. In loose drapey things I tend to look like a horse. I look better in clingy things, shaped, well-cut... the kind of thing some people might find 'slaggy'. Right now I'm fine with that, but I can see it becoming problematic as I get older.

    Also, this seems a good place and time to say, possibly upcoming, the Tits Out For Ourselves website. Stay tuned.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4650 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __,

    I heard a lovely story about a well-known Chch actress who went to a school reunion in a tight, short, low-cut dress, when all the other women were dressed demurely. They would have been in their late 40s or early 50s. Some of the men leered, and one sidled up to her and said, "You don't look like you've got anything on under that..."

    In response she flashed her breasts at him, saying, "I haven't!", and he went away, mortified.

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3887 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen, in reply to Emma Hart,

    But it’s along curvy lines, and requires a waist. In loose drapey things I tend to look like a horse. I look better in clingy things, shaped, well-cut… the kind of thing some people might find ‘slaggy’.

    So colour me confused, you look better in clothes that flatter your (curvy) figure, clothes that prove you have a waist rather than allowing people to assume you are shaped like a brick ... and you are wondering if this is a bad thing to do?

    Yeah yeah I know you are talking about perceptions of age and appropriateness I get it. But really I'm being obtuse because it's such an obvious answer. What other people believe is appropriate is only important if you care about offending their sensibilities. And sometimes you do, but most times their sensibilities are their problem not yours.

    As for whether you look better with tit's out or in a sack ... I'm a boy what do you expect me to say?

    As an aside I love shopping for clothes with my wife and will happily stand for hours watching her try on things, offering opinions and carrying bags. I'm sure there is a career doing that.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4451 posts Report Reply

  • recordari, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    As an aside I love shopping for clothes with my wife and will happily stand for hours watching her try on things, offering opinions and carrying bags. I’m sure there is a career doing that.

    +1
    Sometimes I like it so much I go shopping for dresses without her. True story.

    AUCKLAND • Since Dec 2009 • 2607 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    I look better in clingy things, shaped, well-cut... the kind of thing some people might find 'slaggy'.

    I was surprised by how demurely you dressed, TBH, given your claims of unabashed slagginess. I was expecting a tank top, miniskirt and CFM boots.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10641 posts Report Reply

  • Jacqui Dunn, in reply to recordari,

    Sometimes I like it so much I go shopping for dresses without her. True story.

    My brother chose clothes for me when I had a period of total ineptness, and they became my favourites.

    Deepest, darkest Avondale… • Since Jul 2010 • 585 posts Report Reply

  • Jackie Clark, in reply to BenWilson,

    It’s how you wear the clothes, Ben. Not what sort of clothes you wear. Peoples’ perceptions are funny things. I have always maintained that people who know you really well, and love you, don’t actually really see your physical manifestation. They see you. An example of this is the number of people who have commented on peoples’ body size to me. I look at them, and wonder aloud if they haven’t noticed there’s a fairly fat person beside them. Oh, you’re not fat, they’ll say. Well, yes, I am. As muscled as I may now be after a couple of years being a gym bunny (My brother told me, tonight, that I had fantastic legs. That was a little strange.), I still have a very voluptuous covering of body fat. Beats the shit out of me, also, that people still don’t understand that sexy is very subjective and that beauty really is in the eye of the beholder. We all see things very very differently.

    Mt Eden, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3136 posts Report Reply

  • Nik C,

    You are probably going to want to internet punch me for this, but I'm 22 and I worry about what's 'appropriate' to wear. I mean, I know there's a definite cut off date for short shorts and knee socks (NOT worn together, thank you.), but I'm not sure when it is. 25? I don't know.

    It seems that when you're very young, you can wear what ever you want. Then you hit twenties and until you're about seventy, your options keep getting more limited. Then you hit eighty, and stop caring, and wear whatever the hell you like, and wonder why you played by the rules for so long.

    Since Aug 2009 • 11 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    but I'm 22 and I worry about what's 'appropriate' to wear.

    At 22, I was still working it out, as Bart basically described. At 23, I had my first child, and it became all about stuff that allowed me to get my breasts out in public.

    I was surprised by how demurely you dressed, TBH, given your claims of unabashed slagginess. I was expecting a tank top, miniskirt and CFM boots.

    I love me some boots. But in general I play to my strengths, so it's more cleavage than legs and midrift. And part of the working-out process was discovering that my legs look better in seemingly-demure moleskin pants than in a short skirt.

    But yes, the claiming of slagginess is to some degree a sarcastic response to the amount of slut-shaming I've copped over the years. Self-defence.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4650 posts Report Reply

  • Isabel Hitchings, in reply to Lilith __,

    Counterargument: Helen Mirren, topless or in red bikini, age 63! She looks great and knows she looks great.

    Much as I adore Helen Mirren I have a bit of an issue with her being used as the example in this discussion. HM is slim, conventionally attractive and doesn't particularly look her age, of course she gets a "pass" for wearing skimpier clothes than the average 60 year old.

    Christchurch • Since Jul 2007 • 719 posts Report Reply

  • Megan Wegan, in reply to Emma Hart,

    But yes, the claiming of slagginess is to some degree a sarcastic response to the amount of slut-shaming I’ve copped over the years. Self-defence

    Absolutely. A sarcastic response, and a defence.

    HM is slim, conventionally attractive and doesn’t particularly look her age, of course she gets a “pass” for wearing skimpier clothes than the average 60 year old.

    Yeah, it'd be different if we were talking about Roseanne Barr, who is a similar age.

    Welly • Since Jul 2008 • 1275 posts Report Reply

  • Tamsin6,

    I will turn 40 next month. These days, it's less about what I'm flaunting, and more about what is chafing.

    London • Since Dec 2007 • 133 posts Report Reply

  • recordari, in reply to Megan Wegan,

    Yeah, it’d be different if we were talking about Roseanne Barr, who is a similar age.

    Maybe as a counter, counter-argument, Cher. Last Friday on Graham Norton they had Cher with Dawn French. Frankly, I'd much prefer to look at Dawn French, who is totally comfortable in her skin, than Cher with her stiff upper lip, and face that doesn't move when she laughs. As an actress, I can admire her, although probably won't be seeing Burlesque until it reaches TV, but Mirren and a few other historical sex symbols, seem to be aging much more gracefully, without wearing a Mask.

    AUCKLAND • Since Dec 2009 • 2607 posts Report Reply

  • Jackie Clark,

    You know who I love? Bette Midler. Always have, always will. Now there's a woman who knows from tittage.

    Mt Eden, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3136 posts Report Reply

  • recordari, in reply to Jackie Clark,

    She was on Graham Norton too recently. (Maybe it was a repeat?) Thought she was awesome.

    AUCKLAND • Since Dec 2009 • 2607 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Isabel Hitchings,

    Much as I adore Helen Mirren I have a bit of an issue with her being used as the example in this discussion. HM is slim, conventionally attractive and doesn’t particularly look her age, of course she gets a “pass” for wearing skimpier clothes than the average 60 year old.

    I’d recommend watching the last series of Prime Suspect, where she looks every bit like a barely functional alcoholic at the end of her last tether, ticking off the handful of days to her retirement. Also rather interesting that her highest profile role in The Queen wasn’t exactly the Frocky Horror Picture Show. (Though, if I wanted to be a tad bitchy they could have slapped some padding on Mirren if they were going for verisimilitude.)

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

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