Polity: Behavioural economics and Hekia Parata
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You seem to be labouring under the delusion that teachers make school budget decisions, rather than boards of trustees who are usually parents.
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Here's hoping - assuming Key gives one toss about improving educational attainment, and thinks a deck-chair shuffling exercise in "behavioral economics" is better than directly funding the things you want schools to do (although of course they don't want schools engaging in non-sport extra-cirricular activities with the poors) - that if they did set up such an initiative, it'd be called something less juvenile and patronising than "Nudge".
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The alternative view is that National sees this as a possible outcome, and also sees it as a win, their view being that since private school children all pay separately for the "extras", why should public school children get a free ride for things that aren't core curriculum?
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I'd say it's a positive if schools spend their money on salaries for actual teachers instead of trips to Japan or having a former AB coach the rugby team.
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Rob Salmond, in reply to
You seem to be labouring under the delusion that teachers make school budget decision
No, not really. But I am saying it's much harder for a BOT to decide to fund a jazz band if there's no teacher with their hand up to run it, maintain the equipment, and so on.
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Moz, in reply to
delusion that teachers make school budget decisions, rather than boards of trustees
I have not seen very many extra-cirricular activities run purely by parents, though, although a lot of them "help out". It's actually very difficult for parents to create and run programs like that without help from the staff. If staff were actively resisting I'd say no chance at all. Even something simple like a chess club ($200 for chess sets, a classroom at lunch)... oh, which classroom? Uh, one where the teacher permits it, of course. I'm sure the board will be happy to mediate between a teacher unhappy about the state of their classroom after chess club, and the parent who is running the chess club. And of course no teacher would ever disagree when a pupil wants to participate in a chess competition during school hours.
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James Littlewood*, in reply to
You seem to be labouring under the delusion that teachers make school budget decisions, rather than boards of trustees who are usually parents.
Maybe. But what evidence is there to suggest parent trustees will be any less incentivised to do the wrong thing than school management?
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Rob Salmond, in reply to
I’d say it’s a positive if schools spend their money on salaries for actual teachers instead of trips to Japan or having a former AB coach the rugby team.
I'd say those aren't the only two options...
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Why do I see the promulgation of something called 'behavioural economics' and feel the chill hand of evil? Managerialism in a workplace is bad enough. But to really destroy a nation, you need a government willing to apply it to everything.
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Rob Salmond, in reply to
Good news for Rob: behavioural economics and managerialism are not the same thing. Phew!
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bob daktari, in reply to
possibly because its neither behavioral, economics nor does it make much sense
I worry when people with power act as if the real world is a academic exercise with points for effort... damn the consequences PR will tidy that stuff up
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Rob Stowell, in reply to
Phew!
On paper they may just be good friends. But there are rumours of a far closer relationship :(
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Sacha, in reply to
Was bad poetry involved?
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Teachers are only one aspect of schools. What about libraries, librarians, teacher aides and all the other support staff? Under bulk funding they all shrank. They have little power around the board table or even in the staff room. Where do they fit in under global funding and behavioural economics?
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Every time Rob posts something, a little bit of me dies. Because all he ever does is display how firmly a talentless Labour party is marooned in the 1990s. FFS mate, you have to come up with something a bit better than economic rationalism as a reason to not impose economic rationalism.
The thinking of the NZ Labour party is so yesterday that it is actually the day before. I know "third way" politics was supposed to coincide with the end of history, but I didn’t think it also coincided with the end of thinking.
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mark taslov, in reply to
I worry when people with power act as if the real world is a academic exercise with points for effort
The possibilities are endless, bonus payments for great doctors and nurses when patients recover; for great WINZ staff when people come off benefits; for great police when crime drops, for great jazz equipment maintainers when instruments – though raucously played – function as designed. Or we could just leave this approach to the Act party.
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Things like school trips to Japan are funded by parents and fundraising - not school funds. It's cheaper for a kid to go with the school than for a family to go and usually the teacher doing it has all sorts of educational contacts to set up a good trip for the kids so it's actually a good deal - if the families can afford it.
It's the overseas school sporting trips that I don't see any merit in. They are only trivially educational and, for most cases, it would be better for the kids to travel internally, especially Aucklanders.
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mpledger, in reply to
People subvert the statistics when their income or job is on the line which means the whole thing becomes pointless.
Look at the burglary statistics in South Auckland as an example.
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mark taslov, in reply to
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waihekeislander, in reply to
Those are both options at present. Trips to Japan or an AB coach would currently be funded by Ops grant and/or fundraising. If a school chooses to instead spend that money on teachers they can do that now. The global funding proposal is altogether different. It means baseline teacher numbers could be cashed up to spend on the trips or AB coach - there is nothing about global funding that would lead to more teachers.
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Well done, Rob. That;s the first post of yours that has created debate and dissension among your target audience other than the Chinese names contribution, which was rather unproductive. And I mean that entirely unironically. I am however surprised that the representatives of the various teachers unions have not demanded a retraction and apology, Their demand for your resignation I assume will be dealt with internally.
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Adam H, in reply to
All economics is behavioural: money and how we measure it is not a law of nature, it's a figment of our collective imagination. It is a form of Theology.
The problem is that the "profession" uses Greek when describing it's belief systems, which seems to have fooled people into thinking there are some universal rules.
Repeat after me: "economics is a social science".
Nothing wrong with that, but it shouldn't be confused with Natural Science.
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two central ideas in behavioural economics:
1. People respond to incentives.
Carrot
2. Therefore, policymakers should give people an incentive to do the right thing.
Stick
And we're just clever monkeys, tho, our best achievement is deluding ourselves it seems.
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Adam H, in reply to
And we’re just clever monkeys, tho, our best achievement is deluding ourselves it seems.
Yep. That.
I guess what leaves me most frustrated with the economics profession are the ones like Friedman who seem to think that using Greek notation is an excuse to behave like a sociopath. Look what it did to Thatcher:
I think we've been through a period where too many people have been given to understand that if they have a problem, it's the government's job to cope with it. 'I have a problem, I'll get a grant.' 'I'm homeless, the government must house me.' They're casting their problem on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families."
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And we’re just clever monkeys, tho, our best achievement is deluding ourselves it seems.
Yeah. Behavioural economics is good for explaining how most of the people most of the time don’t know shit about what they’re buying, why, or with what.
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