Legal Beagle: Voting in the Flag Referendum
152 Responses
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Feel free to ask other questions!
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Well, we received four sets of ballot papers in the mailbox today: One for me, one for my wife, and two for the couple who shifted out of this house more than a year ago and have never bothered to update their address for anyone who sends them mail. We’ve gotten to the stage that we forward their mail when we can be bothered.
Yay for postal ballots.
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Ian Dalziel, in reply to
Well, we received four sets of ballot papers in the mailbox today: One for me, one for my wife, and two for the couple who shifted out of this house more than a year ago and have never bothered to update their address for anyone who sends them mail
Imagine what it will be like in Chchch...
It is still ripe for enabled Postal voting fraud on a huge scale I reckon.
(well some anyway, this issue is clouding people's judgement) -
There are cynical bastards in our household who reckon the outcome is pre-determined.
Those Who Rule Us probably have the new flag at the mass manufacturing stage already.
This exercise is pantomime.
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If you don’t rank any flag at all with a “1”. Or if you rank more than one flag with a “1”. Or if you vote using ticks, like in a first past the post election.
If you put a single tick next to just one of the options and nothing else, then that will be counted as if you marked the ballot paper with a 1 (as the voter's intention is clear).
But if you put ticks next to more than one of the options, then your vote will be treated as invalid.
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Thanks for this explanation Graeme - could you please extend this with an appraisal of what a spoiled paper will do; and/or how best to register dissatisfaction the the process itself?
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Graeme Edgeler, in reply to
could you please extend this with an appraisal of what a spoiled paper will do; and/or how best to register dissatisfaction the the process itself?
A spoiled paper will be counted as an informal vote. The number of informal votes will be recorded, but not the reasons for that (the only person seeing your beautifully drawn Matariki flag is the drone recording your vote on a computer).
The best way to register your dissatisfaction with the process is to tell people. There is pretty much nothing you can do as part of the voting process that would be recognised as a protest.
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Marion Ogier, in reply to
Really? What if the informals outnumbered the first choice? Or if you don't bother to vote at all - could a low, low turnout be construed as a protest. I really hate this whole process and how we have arrived at this point.
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Ian Dalziel, in reply to
Dante's fernery...
I really hate this whole process and how we have arrived at this point.
I think the Key Party line advice is 'lie back, but don't think of England'
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Emma Hart, in reply to
Really? What if the informals outnumbered the first choice? Or if you don’t bother to vote at all – could a low, low turnout be construed as a protest. I really hate this whole process and how we have arrived at this point.
Really. Really really. A vote is not a protest. If you want to protest, actually protest. If you have at any point objected to the cost of the referenda, I'd suggest binning your ballot paper. It's the cheapest thing to do, and will be reflected in the % turnout.
I was mildly annoyed to see Annette King (I think) on the news the other night advocating that if you wanted to keep our existing flag, you should vote 1 (or 0) across all the flags in this referendum. That's spoiling your vote. Again, you may as well not vote.
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izogi, in reply to
I was mildly annoyed to see Annette King (I think) on the news the other night advocating that if you wanted to keep our existing flag, you should vote 1 (or 0) across all the flags in this referendum.
It's probably not without tactical consideration, though. If she'd not previously told people to spoil their ballot papers, it'd be harder to later say "See! All those people agree with the exact reasoning I expressed for spoiling their ballot papers!"
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Jackson James Wood, in reply to
What if I put Roman numerals or Khmer (១, ២, ៣, ៤, ៥)?
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Graeme Edgeler, in reply to
What if I put Roman numerals or Khmer (១, ២, ៣, ៤, ៥)?
I think the usual response is: working people are processing these things, so don't be a dick.
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The Electoral Commission website has a worked example of Preferential Voting.
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Andrew Geddis, in reply to
Wot Graeme said.
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weka,
Not voting can be interpreted in many ways, the least of which is a protest vote. NZ typically has a low turnout for referenda, so not voting is more likely to be seen as couldn't be bothered/don't care.
Spoling the vote is more likley to be seen as a protest. At the last referendum the spoiled vote was .3% If the flag1 referendum got 20% spoiled votes it would be hard to interpret that as anything other than protest/FJK.
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George Darroch, in reply to
Those Who Rule Us probably have the new flag at the mass manufacturing stage already.
This exercise is pantomime.
I’ve been surprised at the level of antagonism towards this process. It’s not rational; as if this exercise is a disruption of Our Zealand. That the stasis we’re in is comfortable and even optimal.
I’m not voting, because I want a new flag. I believe that we’re better off with a narrative of this process as a trainwreck, so that the next attempt in 2030 is defined as something completely new, rather than a continuation of a failed attempt.
Edit: And because if I vote, my vote will be seen as an endorsement of Kyle bloody Lockwood's Weetbix #1.
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chris, in reply to
couldn’t be bothered/don’t care
In the context of this first referendum:
Prime Minister John Key has made his big pitch for why he thinks the country needs a new flag.
it’s a rejection of this need.
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If they want us to vote, they should put some decent food on the menu. Like pizzas and stuff.
Nobody's going to vote for broccoli.
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Robyn Gallagher, in reply to
There are cynical bastards in our household who reckon the outcome is pre-determined.
It would be extremely difficult to actually do this, given that throughout the whole referendum process there are actual real people involved.
Unless the theory extends to some sort of 9/11-scale conspiracy where hundreds of people are paid off to keep silent for life. Tbh, I don't think the New Zealand government could manage an operation like that without at least something getting messed up.
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If I put a Weetabix in the envelope and send it back then, as well as feeding the hard working voters, is this a valid vote for the Weetabix flag, or would it be spoiled, even if the cereal isn't.
* Weetabix is a good choice for a new flag, as although people think it's Kiwi, it's actually a UK product made under license.
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Ian Dalziel, in reply to
cereal shorthand...
Weetabix is a good choice for a new flag
Que? Weetabix packaging is all yellow and light blue...
Weet-bix surely - the seventh day adventists and all that..
any way with all those fronds who needs extra fibre? -
Joe Wylie, in reply to
Que? Weetabix packaging is all yellow and light blue...
Weet-bix surely - the seventh day adventists and all that..Seven-day adventurers, as the mum of one of my childhood friends called them. Being deaf and functionally illiterate, she had some interesting takes on a number of things.
Weet-Bix predates Weetabix. Invented in Australia in the 1920s, it spread to NZ and South Africa before spawning its UK offspring.
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http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11544460
You guys read this, right?
and this....http://insights.nzherald.co.nz/article/the-flag-debate
I don't know how They will do it....but do it They will.
National/Key keep topping the polls, despite pretty much everyone apart from Henry/Hosking wishing them gone.
This is not rational!
I'm off to polish my hat...
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Graeme – what’s the law regarding advertising? Once a fern is up against the current flag, might we see a torrent of emotional tv spots and fullpage spreads probably featuring all blacks and airforce heros urging us to get frondly with a brave step into a new world?
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