Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: The sole party of government

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  • Kumara Republic,

    On a lighter note, the Key Govt has made The Daily Show.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5430 posts Report Reply

  • Jack Harrison, in reply to Kumara Republic,

    “Pretty legal”

    "enamie of enenem"

    wellington • Since Aug 2014 • 296 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to Jack Harrison,

    The Eminem lawsuit has already gained more coverage than Dirty Politics...

    - Entertainment Tonight
    - Guardian
    - MusicFeeds AU
    - Daily Hate Mail
    - Bloomberg
    - NME
    - Deutsche Welle
    - ABC US
    - LA Times
    - Rolling Stone
    - BuzzFeed

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5430 posts Report Reply

  • Vaughan little, in reply to Wildo,

    Yeah. Man ban is bullshit. I'd have been happy with a target of at least a third of caucus members being female. But the heroic thing to do would have been to develop systems of female candidate development. Spotting talent in the ranks and growing it. That's way better, and more credible, than a sudden 45% floor from out of nowhere.

    China • Since Jul 2013 • 2 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Kumara Republic,

    we're so pretty, oh so pretty, legal...

    the Key Govt has made The Daily Show

    Jeez Joyce is a stand out ain't he...
    If only Oliver and Stewart knew the rich picking s to be had from our political system and its shenanigans...

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7944 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart, in reply to David Hood,

    Electorates where National’s vote went up:
    “Hutt South” “Port Hills”

    Huh. And the main reason it went up in Port Hills would be the boundary changes, which were designed to do exactly that.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4651 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to Emma Hart,

    Electorates where National’s vote went up:
    “Hutt South” That’s interesting, from a geotechnical point of view. And not so long ago, a storm serge made its way several blocks inland.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4414 posts Report Reply

  • Not The Messiah, in reply to Amanda Wreckonwith,

    Sorry I am 18 pages late with this ( still wading my way thru the 20 pages ). I am pretty new to this excellent blog site.
    Your comment re Mr. Mora struck a nerve. I have just made a Formal Complaint to Nat Radio about him. I heard a few weeks back one of his guests, I think her name was something like Denise from a Strange orbiting Planet, she was pouring obscene scorn on the poor. Usual stuff - get a job, plenty out there, stop spending on grog, fags etc...But what hurt most was when she said the poor should stop having babies. I also complained about other show host most notably the early morning attack chihuahua Guy On Something. I don't expect the unexpected in their reply but it seemed a more positive thing to do than taking an axe to my radio.

    Reading through this and other threads it strikes me that there are so many onto it and intelligent posters here. You guys and gals should throw a party. Maybe call it the Sensible Party or I remember what NZ once was Party. Cheers.

    Auckland • Since Sep 2014 • 38 posts Report Reply

  • Not The Messiah, in reply to tussock,

    An observation..a little off subject but it strikes me as odd that you do not need to show any ID when voting. I showed my line drawing person mine anyway, I told my guy this and showed him my ID anyway - he smiled pleasantly.
    Aside from hacking how hard would it be ( yes I know it is illegal ), given 1/4 of eligible voters don't, to go round voting on their behalf? You would probably get a pretty good strike rate if you had done a bit of investigation beforehand on who your target non voters might be.

    Auckland • Since Sep 2014 • 38 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to steven crawford,

    Living in the material world...

    ...a storm serge made its way several blocks inland

    ...and the very fabric of the land
    'twill' ever be 'worsted'!

    Suits you, sir!

    ;- )

    </sorry, couldn't resist that image...>

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7944 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell,

    yes but a rising tide of civil servants is more of a stereotypically Labour image .... in this case I assume this storm serge is caused by fired civil servants washing up on the tide

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2622 posts Report Reply

  • izogi, in reply to Alfie,

    I accept your point that online voting would make that type of influence easier for an abuser. But don’t the males you’re describing already exert a high level of psychological control over their victims?

    Aside from what Emma said, the issue’s also not limited to abuse. Any occasion when a voter thinks others might treat them differently if they vote in a certain way risks coercing them to vote in that way if there’s a possibility that others might find out how they’ve voted. And if it’s even possible to take away evidence of how you’ve voted, you can guarantee there will be coersion all over the place (whether friendly or malicious) for people to start showing off evidence of how they’ve voted.

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 1139 posts Report Reply

  • Not The Messiah, in reply to Not The Messiah,

    Oooops – sorry about that double up. I am not only new to this but a crap typer and proof reader as well…next time use the preview button you idiot.

    Auckland • Since Sep 2014 • 38 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to izogi,

    Aside from what Emma said, the issue’s also not limited to abuse. Any occasion when a voter thinks others might treat them differently if they vote in a certain way risks coercing them to vote in that way if there’s a possibility that others might find out how they’ve voted.

    It’s also worth remembering what the introduction of the secret ballot in 1870 replaced:

    The New Zealand Parliament – alarmed by reports of electoral abuses in Auckland – soon decided that the electoral laws needed tightening up.

    So in 1858 it passed a series of reform acts, which defined and prohibited treating, bribery and ‘undue influence’. Candidates were banned from employing musicians and displaying banners. The placement of committee rooms and polling booths in pubs was also outlawed.

    At the time, some politicians urged the adoption of the secret ballot (often called the ‘Australian’ or ‘Victorian’ ballot, as it was first adopted in Victoria in 1856). They claimed that this would help stamp out bribery, treating and intimidation – because there would be less incentive to try to influence or threaten electors if their votes could not be traced.

    But not everyone thought that voting should be secret. To many, the vote was not an individual right but an important ‘public trust’ granted to certain citizens to exercise on behalf of their community. Open (public) voting ensured that the holders of this trust were accountable to those who were excluded from the franchise – including, for example, women.

    In 1858 Parliament introduced a new verbal voting system. Each elector was required to state the name of the candidate he wished to vote for out loud to the polling official. The official would then record the vote in a poll book, and the elector would sign his name alongside the entry.

    This method, its supporters claimed, would at least require the elector to be sober enough to speak. Of course verbal voting was not secret – in 1860 one Auckland newspaper even published a list showing how every elector had voted.

    FWIW, I party voted National and don't give the proverbial rat's arse what you all think about it. It's also helpful that I live in a country where it is illegal to discriminate on the basis of political opinion. But the point here is that I choose to disclose who I vote for, otherwise it's none of your fucking business. As it should be.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart, in reply to Not The Messiah,

    it strikes me as odd that you do not need to show any ID when voting

    Do you think people who don't have ID shouldn't be able to vote?

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4651 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Emma Hart,

    Do you think people who don’t have ID shouldn’t be able to vote?

    There's also serious penalties for impersonating an elector for the purposes of committing electoral fraud, and there are mechanisms in place to detect said fraud which is incredibly rare.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Chris Waugh, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    But not everyone thought that voting should be secret. To many, the vote was not an individual right but an important ‘public trust’ granted to certain citizens to exercise on behalf of their community. Open (public) voting ensured that the holders of this trust were accountable to those who were excluded from the franchise – including, for example, women.

    Interesting argument. No longer applicable, of course, unless under-18s want to hold their parents/guardians to account.

    In 1858 Parliament introduced a new verbal voting system. Each elector was required to state the name of the candidate he wished to vote for out loud to the polling official. The official would then record the vote in a poll book, and the elector would sign his name alongside the entry.

    This method, its supporters claimed, would at least require the elector to be sober enough to speak.

    Now that's setting a high standard! Geez, if you're too drunk to speak, how could you handle a paper ballot?

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 2401 posts Report Reply

  • David Hood,

    The name on the electoral roll also only had to be in "a commonly understood form" (I used to do data matching on 19th century electoral rolls, and can testify to this producing some variation in names between elections).

    Keep in mind the 19th century requirements were also framed around a much lower level of literacy than today.

    Dunedin • Since May 2007 • 1445 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to David Hood,

    Far out, so the wooden spoon goes to Tamaki Makaurau. Less than half of the Maori enrolled in Auckland showed up to vote.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10653 posts Report Reply

  • Not The Messiah, in reply to Emma Hart,

    It was just an observation.
    Are there many people these days without ID of some sort? ( I don’t know ) I would have thought pretty much everyone would have something - drivers licence seems a good start?
    I realise it is illegal and I am Not saying it should be done at all, it just seems possible.

    Hacking is also illegal and there is much debate about Public Interest.

    I always thought secret taping of conversations was not admissible in court ( I could well be wrong again here ), but I have seen it done and deemed admissible in an Employment Tribunal case…shocked me at the time and it certainly changed the outcome of this case.

    In the area of Dirty Politics it seems so much dubious, possibly illegal stuff is going on.

    Again just an observation. I hope this hasn’t caused offence.

    Auckland • Since Sep 2014 • 38 posts Report Reply

  • David Hood,

    National benefited from the Labour stay home, but in the Maori electorates Labour benefited from the Maori Party/ Mana even greater stay home. Some commentators have described this as Maori turning out for Labour, but I don't know that is quite the way to look at it.

    Dunedin • Since May 2007 • 1445 posts Report Reply

  • Not The Messiah, in reply to Not The Messiah,

    I know nothing is completely foolproof but perhaps when they send out Electoral Forms before every election an ID specifically for voting ( with photo? ) could be provided and a mechanism/ system for checking this could be set up, it wouldn’t be that difficult. Most places in NZ have a Post Office or Police Station or Bank, whatever, fairly close by. There are exception to this but it would cover most voters.

    I am not saying it should be done in NZ but in many ( most? ) countries Voting is compulsory.

    Auckland • Since Sep 2014 • 38 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell,

    I think the number of countries with compulsory voting is pretty small, Wikipedia lists ~30 if which only 11 actually enforce the law

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2622 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to Not The Messiah,

    Most places in NZ have a Post Office or Police Station or Bank, whatever, fairly close by.

    May have been true 20 years back but National fixed that for us.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to David Hood,

    Electorates where NZ First's vote went up:

    So, had Winston managed a Labour / Green / NZ First coalition (playing MMP the way the right do) we could all be smiling now.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

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