Yeah who knows. But massive majorities were not uncommon at all.
apparently committed, mainly a list inspired by simple right wing pundits who love to say “p.c” a lot
Well now they've got one they can pin on National.
Well now they’ve got one they can pin on National.
Ah, but don't forget that Labour also voted for it.
Yeah, most of them. Sorry, the context was bills submitted by non-Labour members becoming indelibly associated with the Labour Party, just slipping it across the floor. If there's anything to take the edge off this election result it's the vanilla centrality of successive New Zealand Governments.
And it was passed by parliament with conscience votes.
No it wasn't. Both Labour and National whipped the final vote. 113 to 7.
It also destroyed United Future as a political entity, by the by. Big changes around that thing, and still a massive amount of misinformation.
Sure, but high p.r profile such as twitter is a big vehicle for them because they are members of a huge historic "state sponsored" national sport that dwarfs all other sporting cultures. It should be free of this.
As individuals yap away.
I haven't seen a mention of it but some people I spoke to mentioned the Capital Gains Tax proposal as a reason to not vote Labour
Turkeys and Thanksgiving..
They could also start to take A hardline attitude to media bias,,as the Democrats did in the U.S. Pointing out commentators who are clearly cheering p.r instruments of the New Zealand National Party,
Doubt who in NZ has the balls to do it. Looks like whining when coming from politicians.
Similarly with the 'think tank' situation - these organisations are not independent so don't report them as if they are.
I still can't understand why people don't call bias, spin and deceit when they see it. It was nice to see David Slack at least make an attempt on the Panel recently. But why did we have to wait so long? Why does no one call out the other crazies like Denise The Strange Orbit or Jock Anderson? This program leads into the the major news broadcast in the country. It is too important to let cozy Jim get away with his schtick.
I know NZ is a small country but the 'mateyness' of our media is tiresome.
Labour's loss last night wasn't as big as National's loss in 2002.
Labour seats, 2014 = 32 (24.69%)
National seats, 2002 = 27 (20.93%)
That’s definitely my take on it. Ian has some corroboration.
You hit the nail on the head. I’ve heard lots of positive things about how good a local MP Ruth Dyson has been. People vote for a good hardworking local MP, then consider which party they feel offers leadership to the country. Labour just didn’t front with a team people could believe offered leadership.
Harkanwal Singh's excellent interactive for the Herald tells the story. Even where people clearly wanted their Labour candidate back in Parliament, they did not back Labour. I read earlier that Labour only won the party vote in five electorates. I'm not sure that's true, but it feels it.
Now we’ve got the left being held responsible because it turns out that our government is quite corrupt and that it deliberately set out to spy on us, and feeds a lot of secret attack lines to a guy who churns even right wing stomachs. These are features, not bugs. Initially undocumented.
And I make no apology for caring about all of that. It concerns me, deeply.
I get that in large part these are "beltway issues" but I think what has been discovered is troubling and needs setting right. The overwhelming nature of the victory unfortunately makes that less likely.
Internet/Mana [.......]. Labour just killed them stone dead.
Bit early to be making that call, perhaps? Internet seemed to have some good ideas and some talent, but perhaps need to reorganise without Dotcom. Mana seems a bit more solid, and I couldn't shake the feeling that what happened in Te Tai Tokerau was the Establishment ganging up to get rid of the upstart Little People. But perhaps if Mana could go underground and rebuild for the next 3 years, they might have a base from which to stage a comeback next time?
Nationals winning margins were huge, two ticks everywhere. Labour needs to scream “party vote” next time.
Also Cunliffe profiled badly in our media. Folk didn’t warm to him. This does need to be investigated but not today.
Cunliffe should just say “get real” to anyone who thinks the Labour Party are in a position to reflect purposefully less than 24 hours after the result. These “resign” stories are a beat up and are an example of a headline driven media.
The Herald's electorate boundary tool. It's the proposed boundaries not the final ones, but very few actually changed markedly from the proposal.
And I make no apology for caring about all of that. It concerns me, deeply.
Winston Peters is going to make bringing those responsible for Dirty Politics to account as his legacy, I believe. As he said in one interview - why would Key call him .. unless, that is, he wanted to silence him. And he then stated he wouldn't sell out anyway.
He's a man on a mission - no one more up to it, either. He'll get his man :-)!
Hone took a massive gamble with KDC. It didn't pay off.
Unless Kelvin Davis stuffs up in TTT then Hone is finished as far as I can see - he can't really move to another Maori seat as he doesn't have the family ties. People who I know that supported him in the past have lost their trust. Quite sad really.
Bit early to be making that call, perhaps?
I hope so, but being completely wiped from political power is a very heavy blow. It’s the kind of blow we all wish on ACT, but National will never deliver, even when they are supposedly in this awesome position. Which does make you wonder whether they themselves really believe that they’re in that position. I didn’t get a sense of it from any of the interviews of their leaders apart from Key* last night. They need Dunne and whatever the latest ACT guy who hasn’t yet got busted is called, otherwise they’ve got a 1 seat majority without NZF.
*And with Key I simply can't tell what's going on in his head. The words change, but the face and tone stays the same. I can fully imagine him elaborating on a plan to get rid of ACC with the same folksy managerial tone that he'd use to describe getting rid of an unused old coffee machine in the kitchen.
Yes, Labour only need to learn one lesson at this stage. The rest can wait.
Lesson being ... immediate post-election resignations didn't work in 2008 or 2011. Leave Cunliffe in place while the party has an honest and far-reaching inquest (I'm not confident that they can, but I know they should).
If Labour MPs had spent the last 6 years at the beach, the party vote wouldn't have been any worse. Take a long break from Gower-itis ("I want answers and I want them now! Gimme the drug!"), start again in 2015, after the summer.
I have my doubts about Cunliffe's ability to be a caretaker while the bigger, deeper issues are addressed, but if he cares for his party and people, that's what should do.
The opposition has a lot of ammo, if aimed correctly, who knows.
Democracy isn’t about imposing ideas, it’s about listening to and reflecting the will of the people. To find the answer as to why the left lost, much can be learned from how the right won.
Wow! Somebody said it.
A lot of talk here about tactics ; very little about policy.
Did anyone notice that National was NOT promising tax cuts?
O.K. I don't belong here , obviously, so anything I might say is coming from the wrong side of the fence to be taken seriously, but Labour and the Greens were both promising big tax hikes.
Non-negotiable policy? It sure looked like it.
Oh well, only turkeys vote for Xmas.
Bit early to be making that call, perhaps? Internet seemed to have some good ideas and some talent, but perhaps need to reorganise without Dotcom. Mana seems a bit more solid, and I couldn’t shake the feeling that what happened in Te Tai Tokerau was the Establishment ganging up to get rid of the upstart Little People. But perhaps if Mana could go underground and rebuild for the next 3 years, they might have a base from which to stage a comeback next time?
I'm hoping against hope they stay Internet Mana. Laila and Hone are great together as is evidence so brilliantly in this Herald interview;
And I'm also hoping that Dotcom's legal team keep him in NZ and he stays with IMP in that visionary role. We have an internet-age Einstein on our shores here. I hope we can benefit from him building one tech company after another, based in NZ and wildly successful worldwide.
I'm hopeful that Hone will get over his lover's quarrel with the Maori Party ; are they really so far apart?
Cunliffe needs to address his warmth factor and labour need to reflect on the possibility of a warmer, more media savvy leader.
D.C can state that he indeed did look Prime Ministerial at times and that Dirty Politics over shadowed his "month in the electoral sun." It's a tough one. Reflection needs to be done in a sensible adult like fashion.
By your analysis, parties should not promise to move on superannuation, or property bubbles, or environmental protection, or anything that might need to be addressed.
Were you a big fan of Muldoon's economic management?