I think it’s your enormous influence over the party that Tom is bitter on...
I am not bitter on anything. I think she would be a great candidate one day, but her selection in Rangitikei set her up to fail, represents a tin ear from the selection committee and presents her in the future for a constant narrative as a "failed candidate sliding in on the list". Is that how a functioning and well informed selection panel should deal with promising candidates?
For the third time now, tell me how better you think it should be done. Because you're long on bitter recriminations and short on real ideas.
You obviously don’t know anything about Deborah, or rural New Zealand
After last night, who in current Labour party culture does? You? Not bloody likely! It certainly isn't me, I was convinced the polls were out by 5%. More fool me.
So we've gone from "Labour picks bad candidates who under perform" to "Labour picks good candidates who perform as expected but tarnish their personal brand". This is not exactly convincing material.
For the third time now, tell me how better you think it should be done. Because you’re long on bitter recriminations and short on real ideas.
I have finally had the time to do a big long post on this actually, but given I am about as popular as a pork chop in a synagogue around here I think it would really take up to much room. I guess I am asking for permission.
So we’ve gone from “Labour picks bad candidates who under perform” to “Labour picks good candidates who perform as expected but tarnish their personal brand”. This is not exactly convincing material.
Whereas you appear to have completely failed to understand we got wiped out last night and just offer a load of lame excuses.
National had a big business re-election budget, a friendly biased media and up to a month ago a secret slandering machine.
It’s not a fair contest and has never been. The strange media story tellers we have love the easy story of pinko socialists versus bizness savy normal nu zilders.
Hopefully when this result settles we can start the process of unraveling our dirty political environment with a look into the elephant in the room, the systematic and cynical organisation of right wing political influence .
Well I, for one, vote strongly that you do, because I've asked you to do this many a time and got nothing back, and yet you persist on carrying on about PAS like the pork chop in a synagogue that you have made yourself. I've asked you on Dimpost several times too and got nothing, unless you aren't Sanctuary.
Do tell what your actual plan is. At as much length as you like. Put it out there in detail. There will never be a better time.
I've got a really good idea but I'm not going to tell you because you don't like me enough???
Yeah nah, I think I do get that Labour got thumped. That's why I'd like change that works, not half a dozen prejudices unsupported by evidence.
You got it.
Give him a chance. He might come through, but not if he's got to answer a bunch of aggro. I'm really genuinely curious to hear what the vision behind the bitterness is. It might make sense, or it might be incoherent cliches strung together. What I don't want it to be is silence.
The strange media story tellers we have love the easy story of pinko socialists versus bizness savy normal nu zilders.
And that's exactly the narrative that many members of my family fell for. My mother was telling me that the "hounding" of Collins over the Oravida affair was just a beat-up and had no relevance to her ability to do the job. She would have felt even more strongly about the Whaleoil and NSA revelations, which aren't relevant to "ordinary people", and are just an excuse for lefties to pile on to the current govt.
Despite the fact she's a cook, working full time at the age of 67 for the "award" wage (no more than that), living in rented accommodation in South Auckland. Nope, the current govt (somehow) does a "good job" of taking care of her.
I didn't give my party vote to Labour despite looking like a likely sort. One of my reasons is that they have done such a crappy job in Opposition around education (my field) despite the clusterfk that is Novopay and IES. Special education funding and services have been severely strangled over a number of years, and is ripe for exposure and a flaying, but there's no sign of Labour tackling that one. When literacy levels come up for discussion they pop up and say they'll put more Reading Recovery teachers in despite there being 30 years of evidence on what is actually needed (early screening and intervention for phonological awareness if anyone is interested, and then balanced instruction that includes phonics, but PA first). The teachers I know have no love for National but there was serious disenchantment with Labour too. For me, Labour have failed to speak up clearly and loudly about important issues and propose convincing evidence-based solutions. Their voice has been quiet, unconvincing and reactive. I didn't enjoy voting this year.
@Raymond, there was an NZ First candidate in the mix this time. 2000 or so NZF party votes there last time, so I'm guessing that some of the non-National vote moved around in ways that I can't quite work out yet. I'll do some serious number crunching on it once the special votes are in.
On top of this shit sandwich of a result….
Went out this morning, pissed down with lashing rain soon as I closed the door. Liverpool lost 3 fucking 1 to West Ham.
No doubt about it, absolutely, definitely must be NATIONAL SHITE DAY
OK here is my thoughts. First of all, Labour – like all the Anglosphere social-democratic parties – needs to re-define it’s mission, what and who it stands for and what it wants to achieve. Managerialism as a status quo poor cousin to a well funded right wing party is not an option. Identity politics has failed, because the progressive left is just wedged against the majority on issues that don’t put food on the table. Labour is a party of revolutionary change, it needs to define what it wants that next revolutionary change to be and to promote that vision. Watching Greenwald and Snowden in the town hall reminded me that people will come out a cold night and cheer if you give them a bold but achievable vision. And to me, if dirty politics and the dropping participation rate and the irrelevance of gotcha politics amongst elite cadres tells me one thing it is that our democracy is broken, and it it needs a social democratic party to fix it before a constituency for economic reform can be rebuilt to challenge the neo-liberal hegemony. So I would like to see Labour dedicate itself to a great democracy project. It would have three parts.
1/ – Electoral reform:
– Term limits. When even the Green leadership starts exhibiting comfortable job for life syndrome you know it time for term limits. And show me a politician offering to clip the wings of fat cat politicians who ever lost votes. No more jobs for life on a party list.
- Campaign finance reform. Forbid parties any source of income except from membership fees that are capped by the electoral commission. State fund parties based on polling, number of MPs and membership with party membership the main criteria. So, for example, for every financial member the party get X dollars of state funding per year. No more elite cadre parties where palace courtiers decide who gets on the list or makes it for candidate selection.
– Fixed election dates, electronic voting, every voter gets a $20 gift voucher which they can bank or donate to charity.
- Election day would be a paid public holiday like Xmas- paid upon presenting your employer with evidence you voted. Otherwise, don’t vote – don’t get paid for your day off.
2/ – Media reform:
- Digital citizens: All New Zealand households will have a right to free broadband internet access to any .govt.nz site, via a government ISP. The portal would contain a VoIP option and access to Broadcasting NZ
- Sell of TVNZ, but forbid whoever buys it from using the name NZ in the title, or calling it’s channels TV1 0r TV2. Create a new state owned TV company incorporating RNZ, Kiwi FM and a new online entity (bcnz.govt.nz). Fund it properly by a 21st century “broadcasting fee” – a levy collected by the ISPs on all internet accounts for every gigabyte downloaded.
- Forbid foreign ownership of the NZ media. Forbid any one company from controlling more than 30% of any print or broadcast media outlet (bye bye Sky monopoly). Make any not-for-profit media company or owning trust tax free.
3/ – Deepening democracy: Participation in the community is the the warp and weft of a civil society. It builds the ties of deep democracy and devolved power to communites is the best way to create a better society.
- The replacement of all benefits with a non means tested UBI (plus top ups). The UBI will be payable to all New Zealanders regardless of income upon the completion of 208 hours of community or voluntary work per year, unless you are exempted (sickness or having small children being obvious exemptions).
- create community juries for about every 25-40,000 people run on weekends and in evenings at local halls and schools where minor offenses are dealt with. The jury will consist of 8-12 locals plus an advisor and a presiding official. They juries will decide guilt and a range of summary punishments. All convictions are wiped from the record after 12 months.
- Devolve various central government powers to new local authorities modeled on the lines of Swiss cantons. The new local authorities will be free to organize themselves as long as they respect basic principles of democracy, central government laws and protect minorities. They will have the power to levy various taxes and be responsible for all the current territorial powers plus transport, housing, education, and some environmental laws.
There. It is all about democracy.
Labour are politically dirty to half the voters in the country, when pushed for an answer for this perception , the same voters point to "media beat up" political crimes such as big socialism under Helen Clark, having gay candidates and stopping the smacking of tiny children.
I think that quite a substantial proportion of Labour voters feel that way too. The pinkos just happen to be the Green party and anything further out. It matters not one whit that they themselves were once a party like this. Too far down the memory hole. Also too far down the memory hole is having once been the kind of person who might actually choose to vote for such pinko ideas. And the very same people who cried foul about Muldoon being elected with a minority of total votes and getting nearly the same hold on power that Key got yesterday, complain about how this is all MMPs fault. FFS if it were FFP now, Key would have got a two thirds majority.
It's not just Goff's but other electorates where the Labour party vote is well down on the candidates vote. ie Ak Central,Te Atatu, North Shore, Northcote to name a few.
OK Tom, so half of that is the policy of IMP who just got shanked off the entire political grid. Is that really your vision for Labour?
It’s not just Goff’s but other electorates where the Labour party vote is well down on the candidates vote. ie Ak Central,Te Atatu, North Shore, Northcote to name a few.
In Auckland Central and some other electorates that will be because Green voters got the memo and backed the Labour electorate candidate.
You asked me to tell you what I think would be constructive, and I have. I didn’t see the internet party calling for devolution.
You got any better ideas?
Also I don't remember ever seeing any consensus here on PAS about whether the direction of the Labour party was right or wrong.
So, again, asking, what was the Labour party's "direction"? How would the country be substantially different if they'd had a landslide? Other than everyone here being nicer today? In a few words, that people can remember?
Port Hills voters vote for Dyson as a person, not an embodiment of a bunch of party ideology. She works bloody hard, she’s very prominent in the electorate, and she comes across very well as genuine and down to earth. It’s not a grand strategy, it’s people doing what they’re supposed to be doing with their candidate vote: picking the person they like.
Which, to float a crazy notion, may well be why a lot of people don't vote straight tickets. As Emma says, that's exactly what constituency MPs and their staff are supposed to do. It's no less real, important or worthy of respect because it seldom makes the six o'clock news. I was at dinner last night with a couple who'd just moved up from Christchurch and they both voted for Nicky Wagner because she and her electorate staff had been really helpful to them.