Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: The silence of the public square

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  • steven crawford, in reply to Pete George,

    But apparently anyone who perceived Nazi connotations in Dotcom’s performance (and many apparently did) should shut the fuck up about it.

    If they want to be taken seriously, yes.

    I don't think the Nazis where complaining about secret police. And I don't think the internet/mana party are planing any crimes against humanity. Do you?

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4411 posts Report Reply

  • 81stcolumn,

    FWIW:

    I remember chanting. - "Fuck Thatcher, fuck the tax, we want our country back !"

    I was not drunk (though it may have appeared otherwise), it was broad daylight and I was with a large group of youths. I may regret the conjunction of particular verbs and genders now, but I do not regret the sentiment. As someone who had already supported picketing miners before then, I may well have taken offense at any suggestion that I was associated with fascism by virtue of abusing a sitting prime minister. Such a suggestion may have been seen as inciteful at the time. I would also have been quite upset to have my actions interpreted as those of a misogynist would be rapist.

    My long winded point, is to suggest that folk take care when labeling the the actions of others. Particularly young people who can be bothered to say anything at all. Perhaps the best answer is not to guess, bringing to bear whatever expectations and prejudices you possess but to ask; you may be surprised by the answer.

    Nawthshaw • Since Nov 2006 • 790 posts Report Reply

  • Pete George,

    @ChrisHipkins:

    Finally had a chance to see the Dotcom video everyone's talking about. It's alarming. No place for that kind of thuggery in NZ politics

    Getting a bunch of people drunk and getting them to chant abuse isn't political leadership. It's thuggery and megalomania intertwined.

    I want more young NZers to vote to be heard, not because they're being wound up & manipulated by the worst kind of cynicism and thuggery.

    I think that will reflect a much more common view than Dotcom and Harre are trying to portray.

    Dunedin • Since Dec 2011 • 139 posts Report Reply

  • Pete George, in reply to steven crawford,

    If they want to be taken seriously, yes.

    That could be applied to Dotcom and the Internet party, probably more appropriately.

    Dunedin • Since Dec 2011 • 139 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to Pete George,

    That true, I grapple with that as I decide who gets my vote.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4411 posts Report Reply

  • Moz, in reply to steven crawford,

    That true, I grapple with that as I decide who gets my vote.

    I'm more concerned with people who actually associate with criminals and are comfortable with fraud being commited against the electoral system. I leave the Godwin to you.

    Not that I'm suggesting that That Nice Mr Key{tm} would actually commit fraud to keep office, but the whole National Party edifice does seem too comfortable with corruption for my liking. From "airport security rules are only for the proletariat" to "oh, you mean this investment" they seem to like skating as close to the public acceptance line as they can get away with, legality be damned. It might be as innocent as shifting the Overton Window towards public officials enriching themselves at our expense, or as offensive as, well, that.

    Sydney, West Island • Since Nov 2006 • 1229 posts Report Reply

  • Michael Meyers,

    I was at the Party Party in Wellington where something similar happened. I was a little disappointed by speech that Dotcom made but mostly because there was no substance to it. Basically it was just as shown in the video: let's have a revolution, let's get rid of John Key, I want to give everyone here a hug and have a good night. Only about 30 seconds all up. And there was the chanting. No idea where it started.

    There's a lot of dislike for John Key around the country, especially amongst the youth as far as I can tell. The cronyism and the lies leave a bad taste. Despite that, I wasn't particularly impressed by the chanting but I'm sure it's not the first time it has happened. It would probably happen if Key turned up at any concert outside of a Young Nats convention.

    I'm finding the comparison to the Nazis worrying too. I'm guessing it's simple racism: if Dotcom wasn't German, the comparison wouldn't have been made.

    Wellington • Since May 2014 • 56 posts Report Reply

  • Mark Easterbrook,

    I distinctly remember chanting "Fuck Lockwood Smith!" while marching against the Todd Report in 1994. While I feel a little bad about it now - Dr Smith is by most accounts quite a nice man - I think anyone claiming that it's a startling new development is being rather disingenuous.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 262 posts Report Reply

  • linger, in reply to Mark Easterbrook,

    I remember that as the march where we were addressed thusly: “This is not the ‘Lockwood Blows Goats’ march. Maybe we can have one of those next week.”

    But yeah -- all of this is a sideshow. How about some actual policy coverage in our news?

    Tokyo • Since Apr 2007 • 1923 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to Michael Meyers,

    I was a little disappointed by speech that Dotcom made but mostly because there was no substance to it.

    And that doesn’t bother me, because Kim Dot Com is not a politician. He is a celebrity figure. The Internet/Mana members of parliament, and It’s looking there certainly will be at least one – will do the politicking. Not Kim Dot Com. Be he extradited to the USA or not.

    The question, should Internet/Mana be taken seriously, could be should the people who are currently underrepresented in parliament be taken seriously?

    Is the conservative Left (Labour/Greens) taking the politically inarticulate, seriously?

    Doe’s the ’legislation under urgency’ government need to be balanced by public protest and affective opposition?

    Yes, yes and yes. So that we don’t end up with really revolting democracy problems, somewhere down the track.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4411 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to Mark Easterbrook,

    While I feel a little bad about it now – Dr Smith is by most accounts quite a nice man – I think anyone claiming that it’s a startling new development is being rather disingenuous.

    John Key is probably a nice man, but he heads a Government that is disenfranchising large parts of it population, with its lack of consultation before passing legislation. Which is not a nice thing to do.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4411 posts Report Reply

  • Mark Easterbrook, in reply to steven crawford,

    I actually don't believe John Key is a nice man. There's something really cold and hard and selfish behind those eyes.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 262 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to Mark Easterbrook,

    Sorry Mark, I forgot to use the sarcastic potation:)

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4411 posts Report Reply

  • Pete George, in reply to steven crawford,

    And that doesn’t bother me, because Kim Dot Com is not a politician.

    Despite claims at various times that he would leave the politicians to run his party he remains the centre of attraction in the promotion of a political party he owns.

    One could quibble over whether he is 'a politician' or not but he continues to be very political, and the success or failure of the Internet Party will be largely due to his massive presence.

    Dunedin • Since Dec 2011 • 139 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to Pete George,

    One could quibble over whether he is ‘a politician’ or not but he continues to be very political, and the success or failure of the Internet Party will be largely due to his massive presence.

    It’s hard to argue with both at the same time, but let’s say he drops dead from a hart attack, next week. The party will fail or succeed regardless.

    I put my money on Laila Harré being the actual leader of the Internet Party. But if you want to introduce magic into the argument, I will come back with ‘Colin Craig is a man with two front bums’.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4411 posts Report Reply

  • 81stcolumn,

    Despite claims at various times that he would leave the politicians to run his party he remains the centre of attraction in the promotion of a political party he owns.

    Mmmm how refreshing, someone bankrolls a political party is transparent about doing so and we are under no illusions as to why. Compared to financial trust driven politicking or good ol' lobbying I fail to see the problem here. At least an informed choice may be made. I remain uncomfortable at the thought that my vote may or may not be competing with the Alcohol lobby or those who measure success in yards of tarmac/concrete. Especially when confronted by structures deliberately designed to obscure their involvement.

    Nawthshaw • Since Nov 2006 • 790 posts Report Reply

  • Jarno van der Linden, in reply to Michael Meyers,

    I was at the Party Party in Wellington where something similar happened. I was a little disappointed by speech that Dotcom made but mostly because there was no substance to it.

    He is more substantive during the current roadtrip (or at least he was in Nelson), talking about technology infrastructure, tertiary education, and moving the economy away from its dependence on traditional primary produce. He also took part in answering many of the questions from the audience about the party and its policies.

    To me it seemed that he isn't just the posterboy, but is actively involved in shaping the party.

    Nelson • Since Oct 2007 • 82 posts Report Reply

  • andin, in reply to Pete George,

    whether he is ‘a politician’ or not but he continues to be very political, and the success or failure of the Internet Party will be largely due to his massive presence.

    Oh .. get over it. The Nats would fail without The Tefloned one

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1890 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to andin,

    Oh .. get over it. The Nats would fail without The Tefloned one

    Yes I'm over it . Pete, it's really fucking obvious you don't like , feel threatened, or would love to be a politician yourself. Fact is, Internet Mana are politicians and you didn't make it. Simple really, They are more effective than you. We geddit .You hope they fail. Have a wine. a beer a chill pill, wotevs. Bleating on and on and on is not helpful to you or any of us. You state you have friends, go share with them if you need to continuously repeat yourself. And I dont mean that in a bad way.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Jarno van der Linden,

    He is more substantive during the current roadtrip (or at least he was in Nelson), talking about technology infrastructure, tertiary education, and moving the economy away from its dependence on traditional primary produce. He also took part in answering many of the questions from the audience about the party and its policies.

    Also: he has apparently gone well at a series of Mana-organised meetings in Te Tai Tokerau and elsewhere, an environment where getting it wrong wouldn't be forgotten. Taking the Party Party out of context and presenting it as a typical rally is banal and stupid -- and exactly what TV news did.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22817 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Russell Brown,

    an environment where getting it wrong wouldn't be forgotten.

    yes, ask the Waitangi Tribunal about that.. :)

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19705 posts Report Reply

  • Rosemary McDonald, in reply to Pete George,

    Despite claims at various times that he would leave the politicians to run his party he remains the centre of attraction in the promotion of a political party he owns.

    InternetMana is Mr. Dotcom's (what a silly moniker!) pantomime.

    HE writes the script, sets the stage and runs the show.

    He is the producer, the director AND the star.

    How anyone can take him seriously is beyond me. Can't y'all see he's just toying with an election in a tiny country that means NOTHING to him?

    He'll have his fun....then move on.

    Waikato, or on the road • Since Apr 2014 • 1344 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Rosemary McDonald,

    InternetMana is Mr. Dotcom’s (what a silly moniker!) pantomime.

    Almost as silly as Bomber Bradbury.

    How anyone can take him seriously is beyond me. Can’t y’all see he’s just toying with an election in a tiny country that means NOTHING to him?

    He’ll have his fun….then move on.

    Men were executed, women bled
    Beads and fish changed hands and
    Children stayed up late
    Uh huh

    Coloured drums they stretched the night
    There's a taxidermist looking for a fight
    But now he's gone
    Ah yeah, only the stones remain

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4592 posts Report Reply

  • Pete George, in reply to Sofie Bribiesca,

    Fact is, Internet Mana are politicians and you didn’t make it. Simple really,

    I didn't make what? I've learnt a lot and had a lot of fun. Do you know what my objectives have been and are? It doesn't sound like it.

    Fact is that Hone Harawira is a politician whose effectiveness so far is questionable, especially compared say the Maori Party that enabled him to become a politician in the first place.

    Laila Harre is an ex politician who had some success and failures - fairly typical in politics. It's not clear who successful her her current attempt at being a politician will be.

    Is Kim Dotcom a politician? He's a showman and a political party "founder and visionary". It's yet to be seen how successful his brand of politics will be.

    They are more effective than you.

    We geddit .You hope they fail.

    Who's 'we'? Whoever you are you're wrong. I don't "hope they fail". I wish we had a more democratic MMP where they could win as many seats in Parliament as their proportion of support got them without having to resort to compromising deals with other parties.

    A curious thing about political forums is how many participants seem unable or unwilling to discuss issues and only seem intent on trying to piss on people they disagree with or don't like. This is a cross spectrum phenomenon. It doesn't seem to be a very successful way to do politics, seeming to reflect frustration and impotence.

    Dunedin • Since Dec 2011 • 139 posts Report Reply

  • Stewart, in reply to Rosemary McDonald,

    Psychic, are you?

    Te Ika A Maui - Whakatane… • Since Oct 2008 • 577 posts Report Reply

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