Hard News: The positive option of Red Peak
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By the way I nominate Red Peak for the 2015 Public Address Word of the Year. If Kirkaldies can open its (last ever) Christmas shop in September, I can nominate something after only 9 months of a 12 month year.
I am pretty sure that is the end of any talk of "Red Peak"....
izogi, in reply to
I am pretty sure that is the end of any talk of “Red Peak"….
*sigh* Yeah, probably.
I noticed that and I guess I was concerned for a moment. Then I wondered if this is something that anyone globally is going to notice or care about besides New Zealanders who are paranoid about being mis-perceived by someone else's manipulation of their flag. Is it?
Russell Brown, in reply to
Ian Dalziel, in reply to
the lucky country...?*
...an enduring symbol of mankind
the recent perverted use of which
does not diminish its rich heritage
among more enlightened cultures
* ...the Sanskrit term svastika, meaning any lucky or auspicious object, and in particular a mark made on persons and things to denote auspiciousness, or any piece of luck or well-being.
Tom Semmens, in reply to
Yes, but yours involves cutting up and repositioning various bits of a Union Jack to produce a rather sad looking version of a Swastika,
Wheres simply strategically placing four red peak flags produces a very clear swastika.
I never liked the red peak flag for the simple reason I dislike chevrons on anything except Heraldic devices and Spartan shields (actually a Lambda, for Lacedaemonian). This demonstrates why.
Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
The whole thing reminds of nothing so much as one of those interminable corporate sessions where a committee of well-meaning amateurs tries desperately to come up with a mission statement and in the end produces a trite piece of pap that nobody can muster up enough energy to object to.
Agreed. The "Spark" logo or Kraps as we like to call it comes to mind and is exactly what we figured had happened. The relatively new TV program "House of Lies" comes to mind also but that crew, not so amateur.
I think he did it in a desperate attempt to save face...
Yeah, nah. Red Peak is very popular with people who hate John Key and the National Party, and quite popular amongst designers and intellectuals and "experts". It is massively unpopular with "mainstream New Zealanders" - just read the comments on MSM and social media. They are incredulous that anyone sees any merit in Red Peak for any purpose whatsoever, and deeply resent being told that they have crap taste for loving Lockwood's silver ferns. John Key is smug - not desperate. He knows that Red Peak will be utterly trounced in the referendum.
Unfortunately the 'buzz' created for Red Peak by urban liberals has ensured that it will never be our flag - just like Hundertwasser's flag and Tino Rangatiratanga, it's a symbol of division, not unity.
Ian Dalziel, in reply to
Semaphore play – talking flags
…if this is something that anyone globally is going to notice or care about besides New Zealanders who are paranoid about being mis-perceived by someone else’s manipulation of their flag.
But the Brits have ‘skin in the game’, as it were, I guess…
it makes the Australian’s blog
I’m also thinking that for 5% of the population (thereabouts) the Red Peak flag will just be 3 similarly toned Triangles – I have trouble enough defining between the Black and Blue with my aging rods and cones…
(same for all the flags bar the krappy koru one, really)
S’peak’ing of ‘chevrons’ I see Z Energy is buying Caltex
One of The Guardian commenters pointed out the Industrial Design Council of Australia's 1958 logo...
so it does have a design pedigree...
izogi, in reply to
Thanks. I'm not a subscriber to The Australian, but so far the others just seem to be newswire adaptations or reports describing NZ's politically charged paranoia about itself, as opposed to international outrage of the design which NZ's adding to the list.
I'd be keen to know if real people globally would even notice or care about NZ having a flag which, for those with a suitable imagination, could be perceived as a quarter of a swastika. Are we going to be afraid of straight lines next?
My view is the only flag popular enough to have stood a chance against the Blue ensign – the silver fern “black flag” – was disqualified for the most trivial reasons. None of the other designs have the same emotional ’ooomph” as the silver fern black flag.
Perhaps we need to step back a bit and adopt a suck-it-and-see strategy of adopting the silver ferm flag as an official alternative flag to the blue ensign when been flown as a jack on a RNZN warship and as a military flag (after all, the silver fern on black was first widely used to represent NZ troops in the Boer war) alternative to the blue ensign for armed forces use in general, much like the RN white ensign is exclusively a military flag or the (now discouraged) Japanese rising sun flag. That way, we get to use the silver fern black flag when we are feeling patriotic and proud (or xenophobic and disliking of all foreign devils according to taste) at sports fixtures or when our armed forces are in action against sundry enemies.
Over time, it will replace the blue ensign for more and more uses, or it will not and fall into disuse.
Yeah, I'm sure many iwi are loving the fact their niho taniwha patterns are being compared with a paint job on a German Wehrmacht (not Nazi, ffs) box.
Nice exercise in an association fallacy. What was someone saying yesterday about writing for The Sun ? Why don't we bring out the pic of the princesses doing their Nazi salutes while we're at it? Oh wait, they're high Tories, and that type here want to keep that wonderful symbol of colonialism.
Ian Dalziel, in reply to
Ichthys and Scratchy...
Red Peak would lead to chaos. It is obvious.
..that CH looks suspiciously like the ancient underground symbol for Christianity...
'Flag face' may have legs but isn't as nifty as Blair Parkes' excellent 'Brick Face' to my way of thinking...
st ephen, in reply to
Did someone say Nazi salutes?...
David Hood, in reply to
like the ancient underground symbol for Christianity…
That's a good point, three Red Peak flags make a Christianity symbol, 4 make a swastika. Is New Zealand First comparing Christians to Nazis as they are closer to the flag?
I personally don't like red Peak. To me it says nothing about New Zealand. That it is at least different to the other four is a plus but the whole process has given us 5 bad choices from a list of 40 average choices
I'll vote to keep our current flag.
A flag serves two functions, as an emotional statement of nationalistic identity and as a political statement of unity. It is amazing to me that so far in this “debate” we’ve managed to not once mention the primary role of flags as nationalist vehicles and/or political statements. No wonder we keep ending up with feeble corporate logos, anaemic designs befitting an anaemic debate.
A flag makes no sense as something to be concerned about unless you accept that it is a symbol of who and what we are and what the realities of our cultural and political values might be. That is why this debate is so hollow. No one is going to say out loud that the vast majority of NZers will not countenance any design with a heavy Maori influence because that would raise questions about the complete disconnect between the elite and the wider population on the matter of the place and importance or otherwise of Maori in a modern New Zealand. No one wants to say out loud they hate the silver fern black flag because they regard it as symbolic of a bunch of redneck ignoramuses who love rugby to much and they don’t want a bar of that NZ. And no one wants to say that stuff because no one can be bothered with the shit storm it’ll stir up if they do. Which tells me there is no real appetite for change.
So we end up with the curious amnesia of this hollow debate divorced from any sort of political or cultural context. If you want a metaphor for John Key, then I guess this ill-thought out, ego-driven, vacuous, and frivolously poll driven flag debate is as good as any.
The whole thing really is a grim joke.
Ian Dalziel, in reply to
rumbled still skin...
If you want a metaphor for John Key, then I guess this ill-thought out, ego-driven, vacuous, and frivolous flag debate is as good as any.
He is spinning straw into gold!
(or so he thinks...)
william blake, in reply to
Since this flag bullshit is ALL about the P.M.s' popularity any new flag is going to be divisive. It's the reverse of a revolution where a new flag is part of the change, any new flag is going to affirm the sovereignty of the National party. Next up electoral reform, one of the options will be having a monarch.
Sacha, in reply to
After all, remember Novopay? We couldn't even get a simple payroll system to work.
I blame the Queen of Australia for that one.
I’m surprised at how much vitriolic dislike there is of John Key, and how it has been expressed through this process. It’s mostly incoherent, and reasonably unfocused – which makes it useful for populism (Little this week, Peters every week).
So, as disappointing as it is, it’s fairly straightforward that Andrew Little tried to play politics with this.
Let’s explain by way of example: I ask you if you want a new t-shirt you’ll wear everywhere. Your existing t-shirt is old but comfortable. You ask which one, and you’re told that you have to decide if you want it before you’ll be told. A non-preferential yes/no process is designed to produce a no, and Labour know this.
They’re particularly angry on Twitter and Facebook today because their opposition moment has been snatched away by a party in favour of giving more people a chance to choose. It doesn’t help them that Gareth Hughes got a glowing endorsement on the front page of the DomPost today.
George Darroch, in reply to
Does PAS support GIFs?
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