Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: The Police Ten 7 State

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  • Sacha,

    NZ's reputation dented overseas again.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19706 posts Report Reply

  • izogi,

    According to Stuff and today’s 5pm Radio NZ Bulletin, Police have apparently apologised to Dr Jarrod Gilbert, amended guidelines around vetting of researchers, given him access to the data he requested, and are revising the contracts they issue with data.

    Has anyone seen any details of what they're actually changing?

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 1139 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to izogi,

    Police media release, polished to a fine glow. Includes:

    "Police will also be updating the research agreement, including removing any language that may be interpreted as restricting the independence of academic research.

    “I want to stress that this was neither the intent nor purpose of the agreement."

    Someone really needs to learn how to write contracts then.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19706 posts Report Reply

  • linger, in reply to Sacha,

    As others have already suggested, it may be that Police didn’t actually “write” this one – some untrained minion just copied a lot of boilerplate in from somebody else’s overly ass-covering contract. ’Cos who’d have thought you could ever have too much ass-covering? … Oh, right.

    Tokyo • Since Apr 2007 • 1923 posts Report Reply

  • izogi, in reply to linger,

    Uhuh. I reckon they did consciously write it, though. A higher management steering committee or similar probably decided exactly what they wanted, and likely commissioned a lawyer or three to go over the wording of the contract to make sure it was airtight in that regard.

    Most likely they didn’t think or bother to consult any relevant staff or lawyers on how the law actually required NZ Police to handle information requests, because higher management probably never seriously considered it might be relevant.

    An OIA request asking for records detailing how the contract wording originated could be interesting, but it might be thought embarrassing enough that with an agency like NZ Police, it’d end up on the Ombudsman’s desk before getting anywhere.

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 1139 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    the wages of sink…
    Karma?
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/74568834/56m-police-payroll-project-in-trouble-says-treasury-report
    some interesting bits come to light in this story…

    The Treasury said it was monitoring a total of 38 major projects worth a combined $20.5 billion as of June, plus two secret projects being undertaken by the Government Communications Security Bureau (GCSB) about which it would not reveal details. One of the GCSB’s projects is likely to be its Project Cortex cyber-security initiative.
    Of that $20.5b spending, $7.3b had been committed to projects that had “amber/red” or “red” warnings against them, the Treasury report showed.

    Looks like the Chchch (w)anchor projects are in the “amber/red” too…
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/74564697/anchor-project-delivery-appears-unachievable

    Looks like we may as well dispense with the expense of having a Treasury, no one in Government listens to them, and they only tell people stuff they don’t want to hear – what killjoys!

    Don’t parade on my reign…
    Brownlee, English, Key, et al…

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7943 posts Report Reply

  • Dismal Soyanz, in reply to izogi,

    because higher management probably never seriously considered it might be relevant.

    +1

    Possibly one of the side effects of trying to inculcate corporate management style into the public service.

    Which on reflection is being generous. We are unlikely to ever know (ie proven rather than stated by a spokesperson) if it was a sin of commission or omission.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2010 • 310 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace,

    Appropriate here is Giovanni's latest post about the police raid on Nicky Hagar's house.

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3214 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Hilary Stace,

    Nicky Hagar’s house.

    Ahem - Nicky Hager
    :- )

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7943 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    Nicky Hagar’s house.

    Ahem - Nicky Hager
    :- )

    Indeed. To quote Tom Semmens, it's high time we stopped confusing Nicky Hager with a horrible viking.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4593 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace,

    Now the police are searching the house of those dangerous journalists Barry Soper and HDPA http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/national/police-search-sopers-apartment-in-search-of-e

    (Sorry about Hager spelling, just know it rhymes with lager, and will take care to spell correctly in future)

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3214 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace,

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3214 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Hilary Stace,

    From that article, it seems Hager didn’t get treated fairly, I guess the Police forgot to ring him to warn them of an imminent search, unless of course you work for a large organisation. Why did they ring Soper instead of Du Plessis?

    Soper told the Herald police had made contact yesterday to tell him a search warrant had been issued for the couple’s apartment.

    “You have to be joking,” Soper said he responded. He told the officers he was going out that evening so wouldn’t be available and asked if they could come this morning.

    And they did…..

    Nice for some eh? “Nah wont be home come back thursday at 4.” Talk about treating Soper differently

    ETA, I've seen 2 tattoos lately "FTP" and "Fuck The Police" .People prepared to tatoo that on their skin for life. I really do understand why they feel this way.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • izogi, in reply to Sofie Bribiesca,

    it seems Hager didn’t get treated fairly, I guess the Police forgot to ring him to warn them of an imminent search

    Heh. Different treatment because he wasn't a suspect?

    Oh, wait.

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 1139 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Hilary Stace,

    It's really hard to get my head around quite how stupid the person had to be that launched the investigation. There's a sort of bureaucratic daftness that could only result from complete immunity to self-reflection. The sad part is that probably the very cops doing it would have just been shaking their heads at the stupid waste of time that had been inflicted on them from some lofty management level above. That's really why they joined the force - so they could prove a gun had been purchased illegally, by a person who bloody well said they did that, and then gave the cops the gun, before they ever even knew it had happened, and as a direct consequence, it's now much harder to get guns that way, so the police are safer from guns. They literally joined the force so that they could make the world slightly less safe for police, by making journalists just that little bit more uninclined to help them in their work.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10650 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Hilary Stace,

    searching the house of those dangerous journalists Barry Soper and HDPA

    I wonder if they tried just asking her for a handwriting sample?

    They must have some stock phrases and words they use for gathering an overview for graphological analysis.

    It is not as if HDPA has denied doing it – albeit to prove a point – they’d probably love the exposure of a court case…

    .. I guess the police just hate amateur detectives…

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7943 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    I guess the police just hate amateur detectives

    This is an episode of Columbo. We already know who did it, that's always the first scene. It's not meant to be a mystery, but about how no-one can withstand endless questioning from an idiot. First proved 2400 years ago in Athens.

    Of course we're all going to look silly when it turns out to have been an elaborate ruse and the two journalists really used the gun to top Mike Hoskings and replace him with a remote controlled muppet, throwing all suspicions off themselves by going public that they bought a gun without a licence. No one will ever notice, until the day that Hoskings says something actually intelligent and the police give him a probing search to get him back for being a smartarse. During the rubber glove check for his journalistic integrity, they find that they can control his mouth. They quietly put him back, seizing the remote control as "evidence".

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10650 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to BenWilson,

    it's great when musings cross over from twitter and grow legs. #onya

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19706 posts Report Reply

  • Rosemary McDonald, in reply to BenWilson,

    and the police give him a probing search to get him back for being a smartarse. During the rubber glove check for his journalistic integrity, they find that they can control his mouth.

    Please, I beg you, warn the overly imaginative of us when putting images like this out there.

    Two brain scrubs in a week. Bye bye last neuron....

    Waikato, or on the road • Since Apr 2014 • 1344 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    Bill stickler…
    I had to laugh this morning listening to Bill Ralston going into bat for Heather du Plessis-Allan and under-siege journalists.
    He wasn’t so understanding or forgiving when the same thing happened to long-form investigative journalist Nicky Hager – Ralston tweeted:

    Just to annoy rabid tweeters: Shouldn’t someone who accepts stolen goods be raided & why did he wait till today to announce it?

    Hager was, if we use Ralston’s definition, breaking the law to help the law and society…
    What changed Bill?
    or is it just that Heather is better looking?

    source:
    https://twitter.com/BillyRalston/status/518971923397480450?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7943 posts Report Reply

  • Alfie,

    Former District Court judge Roy Wade has written to Police Commissioner Mike Bush over his department's heavy-handed treatment of HDPA and the extremely foolish search of her home.

    Dunedin • Since May 2014 • 1434 posts Report Reply

  • izogi, in reply to Hilary Stace,

    Yes, it’s very appropriate. Raiding Nicky Hager’s home and Heather du Plessis-Allan’s home seems questionable enough, but (from GT:)….

    we must remind ourselves of the extent in which this case was also quite ordinary. That is to say, of the fact that the Police acted the way they did because it is natural to them; because this is how executive power works, and because – like at Ruatoki in 2007 – it comes with very little cost or likelihood of checks.

    …how frequently are Police raiding people’s homes, roughing up and confiscating their stuff, and unnecessarily causing great stress and alienation, for often unjustifiable reasons, which we simply don’t hear about?

    There’s evidence of a serious culture issue here. It shouldn’t be okay to stop at questioning how a couple of journalists and their own families have been affected.

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 1139 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    Just the facts...
    Getting access to Police files may not be the only issue - first the police have to be able to find them!
    They are now letting criminals go un-prosecuted because of bad file management...

    A teenage thug who threatened a five-year-old girl with a knife during a robbery has been let off after police lost his case file.
    The police error prompted a stinging rebuke from Judge Tony Fitzgerald, who said it was concerning they had not taken adequate steps to find the file, or to create a new one.

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7943 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    ...and then there's this:
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/74698391/outsourcing-death-inquiries-meredith-connell-paid-to-draw-up-coroners-rulings
    Conflict of interest or just trying to clear up a backlog?

    Chief coroner Deborah Marshall has outsourced more than 100 death inquiries to her old law firm.
    The Ministry of Justice confirmed Marshall had contracted Auckland firm Meredith Connell to draw up 116 coronial findings, at a cost of $68,000, in an effort to reduce a major backlog of files around the country.
    ...
    It was revealed last week that ccoronial services staff are under huge workload pressure, with some case managers dealing with up to 300 outstanding files. There have also been claims of bullying against senior management.
    Heather Baggott, the general manager of special jurisdictions at the Ministry of Justice, said Meredith Connell did the work between March and June in a one-off "short-term initiative".

    When clearing one problem creates another one, something is well wrong with the system, the funding, or both...

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7943 posts Report Reply

  • chris, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    When clearing one problem creates another one, something is well wrong with the system, the funding, or both…

    Seriously Ian, when we have reached a point where we have preteens hanging themselves in our primary schools, a media gagged from factually reporting the issue, a Government unable to publically debate the underlying impetus and a society – from whom these developments are hidden, with no possibility to correct itself – no one’s fussed because so few know – then we are so far past any “when” threshold for speculating that something *might* be wrong with our system that the more pressing question is will we ever be able to make things right.

    As our leader wags on that his terrorism watch list numbers the same as last year and the leader of the opposition indulges in a spot of skydiving, a community rocked by this news have to explain to their pupils and own children that her name doesn’t make the news because they’re afraid the rest of the children might copy and then answer questions querying why the Government would think that they would want to copy their school mate. Well heck, why not? We've build lie upon lie upon lie.

    Just be sure not to miss your local Santa parade.

    Mawkland • Since Jan 2010 • 1302 posts Report Reply

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