Hard News: The miserable archive
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We were talking about the Tenancy Tribunal making stuff up. Here it is, literally, from a real estate website.
In certain cases, we have found one adjudicator of the opinion that any level of Methamphetamine contamination is too high, even if it is under the Ministry of Health guidelines. Adjudicator Hogan states in Tribunal order of Harris v Thomas Baseden Real Estate that "in my view, if the property is contaminated with methamphetamine, at any level, it is unclean and in breach of section 45(1)(a)." (provide the property in a reasonable state of cleanliness). In the same order, adjudicator Hogan states that a landlord should , as a matter of best practice, have a property tested at the commencement of a tenancy.
Adjudicator Hogan's opinion is shared by Head Adjudicator Melissa Poole. Ms Poole confirmed the Tribunal stance that any level of Meth was too high even if it was under MOH Guidelines whilst she was speaking at the REINZ Conference in early August.
So any level of meth, even below the MoH guidelines, represents unacceptable contamination? It's just bonkers. And it had real consequences.
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Idiot Savant, in reply to
When I appealed, guess who heard the appeal? The same guy who made the original decision. These people are a joke.
That right there is an insta-fail on administrative law grounds.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
That right there is an insta-fail on administrative law grounds.
Wait till you hear about how they determine essentially criminal allegations on the balance of probabilities.
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so who appoints the 'judges' on these tribunals? who prosecutes? can tenants get legal aid?
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Russell Brown, in reply to
so who appoints the ‘judges’ on these tribunals? who prosecutes? can tenants get legal aid?
Tenants can only turn up with legal representation in certain circumstances, and many of the adjudicators are lay people.
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Joe Wylie, in reply to
The cyanide can kill the photographer if they fuck it all up by adding the sulfuric acid at the wrong time. But the photograph it self isn’t going to have any halmfull residual cyanide.
I guess some people never really got over those primary school stories about the kids who died of lead poisoning after being jabbed with the lead of a pencil.
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We used to have a NZ Guidelines Group with a team of researchers highly skilled in analysing and grading scientific evidence. This whole saga shows why we need such an independent and skilled team in a public agency so the process cannot be captured by any interest group.
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Moz, in reply to
“for the same level of contamination" ... That’s also bullshit. Methamphetamine is not the same as the bubling chemicals and gas, which are used to manufacture it.
I'm not sure whether that's a reading comprehension fail or a political answer - you've responded to something I didn't say with a tangentially related diatribe. But sure, verbal me and rant, be my guest.
"same level of contamination"... you can't get that by using different chemicals, that's not how contamination works.
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Whether methamphetamine contamination in a dwelling is via use or manufacture the exposure risk is the same
You can also (in a weasel way) read it as true if you take "exposure risk" to mean the risk that you might get exposed to it.. instead of the implied "the risk of health affects after exposure".
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Tom Semmens, in reply to
We used to have a NZ Guidelines Group with a team of researchers highly skilled in analysing and grading scientific evidence. This whole saga shows why we need such an independent and skilled team in a public agency so the process cannot be captured by any interest group.
Funnily enough, I have been reading the British Wreck Commissioner’s Inquiry report into the loss of the Titanic (because why? I have no real idea). As far back as 1887 a parliamentary committee chaired by none other than Sir Charles Beresford warned the 1855 regulations were inadequate in requirement for the provision of lifeboats.
However, the Board of Trade was animated mainly by a spirit of light handed regulation, was completely captured by the shipping industry and had, by the 1880s, largely lost it’s expert members in favour of ceremonially appointed stooges of the establishment. And so it complacently ignored all the evidence in favour of self-regulation, refuted expert advice (including that of it’s own inspectors), and attacked it’s critics as Cassandras and trouble makers.
Until one clear, freezing night in 1912…
Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose.
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Spinoff has an excellent article
Andrew Mckenzie HNZ and a lot of people at HNZ and on Tenancy tribunals should be in fear of losing their jobs over this. Rightly so -
william blake, in reply to
God that's brutal, it outlines social engineering toward a class system which is not the old NZ way. Who's culture have we imported ,and why hasn't MPI stopped it at the border?
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andin, in reply to
The people involved have shut up and are using the johnkey tactic of hand waving it away, saying nothing to see here, move along please.
They need to be made accountable. -
As reported by Radio New Zealand Andrew McKenzie was asked about a Deloitte report at select committee...
... the Deloitte report the agency commissioned last year.
That report again told Housing New Zealand the guidelines were designed only for cleaning up meth labs and warned its eviction campaign was not based on a solid foundation of research or science.
"Housing New Zealand spent $50,000 on a report from Deloittes. As I understand it that report told you that the standard you were using was not sound, and yet you continued to use the standard - is that right?"
At the same committee meeting Andrew denied getting the advice from the Ministry of Health. I am not a journalist, but methinks that Deloitte report would be OIA'able....
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Sacha, in reply to
that Deloitte report
Courtesy of Benedict Collins: dropbox pdf, 24 pages.
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Andrew McKenzie needs to go for a start. He was/is earning $46000 a month . He is not morally fit to hold this job, judging by his behaviour
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Tom Semmens, in reply to
God that’s brutal, it outlines social engineering toward a class system which is not the old NZ way. Who’s culture have we imported ,and why hasn’t MPI stopped it at the border?
Something psychologically very, very dark happened during the John Key era.
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BenWilson, in reply to
Something psychologically very, very dark happened during the John Key era.
If it did, John Key was a symptom of it, rather than a cause. I just don't think he was anywhere near as influential as his fan club and his haterz made out. National's polling would appear to be almost completely decoupled from its leadership ATM. Labour's clearly is not, otherwise the Jacinda bounce is inexplicable, nor is the Cunliffe flop.
Key was a surfer on the human wave. He rode it, but he did not cause the wave.
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Key was a surfer on the human wave.
Thats him 2nd from the right
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Joe Wylie, in reply to
Thats him 2nd from the right
Spooky, considering he'd have been barely 5 years old, though those reptilians really hit the ground running once they're out of the egg.
BTW the Wall of Surf party outpolled the Communist League and Blokes' Liberation in the 1990 election, though there's been no suggested Key connection AFAIK.
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Key was a surfer on the human wave.
He rode it, but he did not cause the wave.Spooky indeed...
He is after all merely a particle, but one that could seemingly pass through both slits - if you could observe him you wouldn't know what he was up to, but if you knew what he was up to you couldn't see him - and he could adopt many superpositions - he was everywhere and nowhere, baby! -
Theres one question I’d like to ask, but will never get an honest answer, from all those on the govt side during this debacle. They obviously mistakenly thought they were dealing with monkeys, the arrogance just drips off them.
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Today's Tremain
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Adam H, in reply to
WHAT?? So a law can be interpreted differently by a government?
Yes. It's one reason I left the public service after National got in. Their weaselly VFM bullshit gave a licence to every closet arsehole in the public sector. Tone comes from the top, but its the front line who let it happen. -
nzlemming, in reply to
Key was a surfer on the human wave. He rode it, but he did not cause the wave.
The wave is neo-liberalism. We've reached the point where it crashes on the rocks destroying those who cling there.
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