Hard News: Drugs, testing and workplaces
115 Responses
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Tinakori, in reply to
So you are conceding that English was told these things by employers. Therefore he wasn't lying when he said so. Thanks for that. The rest of your argument is more appropriate for a representative of the Society of Jesus than someone employed as a scientist.
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NewShub backs the PM's desperate dog-whistling anecdata.
CEO of Horticulture New Zealand Mike Chapman says it's a real problem, and he has many employees not willing to give up drugs.
"We are getting 50 percent of these Kiwis saying 'no, sorry, I'm not prepared to change my lifestyle, I like taking drugs'," he told Newshub.
The same goes for the dairy industry. A mid-Canterbury dairy farmer who didn't want to be named told Newshub he employed and housed four immigrant workers, and has just employed another one because the only two Kiwis who applied had drug records.
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Katharine Moody, in reply to
So you are conceding that English was told these things by employers.
He may well have been told these things, but that doesn't mean that Bill, like anyone else who reads the news and understands the worker exploitation and human trafficking that NZ is becoming so well known for, would take anything these employers say as being anything but reflecting their interests in cheap labour.
Bill wasn't born yesterday (see below) - he's closer to the truth than the rest of us on the cheap labour scams. He lied using young New Zealanders - deliberately and maliciously - as a scapegoat to legitimize his administration's flawed immigration policy.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10830276
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/313443/facebook-used-to-recruit-illegal-migrant-workers
No better than Trump.
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Joe Wylie, in reply to
NewShub backs the PM's desperate dog-whistling anecdata.
English's stiff and shallow attempts at justifying failed policy show that he hasn't learned much from the good years he enjoyed in Key's shadow. Back in the limelight there's no disguising that the old whiff of political death he exuded as opposition leader is as strong as ever. It's all a bit too reminiscent of this media-assisted humbuggery hiding to oblivion.
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I sometimes wonder if the real reason for "ghost drug-testing" is to reinforce US-style right-to-work dogma & prevent unions organising, particularly in the agriculture sector.
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linger, in reply to
It also indicates that for Blinglish, the off-the-record opinions of unnamed employers will always count more than the lives of workers.
He’s spreading lies, and he’s fully aware of it, the conniving bastard.
Whether they’re originally his own lies is entirely beside the point. -
And if it's anything to go by, addiction to opiods and other drugs is a bellwether for American counties that strongly voted Trump. What if in NZ, those written off/smeared as 'too stoned to work' are swayed by a 'burn it all down' strongman who makes Winston Peters look moderate?
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September 2016:
Immigrant workers needed due to NZers’ work ethic, drug use – PM
Leon Stallard – a grower, a director at Horticulture New Zealand and a former president of the Hawke’s Bay Fruitgrowers’ Association – told RNZ host Jesse Mulligan that he agreed with Mr Key’s comments.
“I would say everything that John Key said, yes, is true – I would tick every one of those boxes, in essence. I mean, labour is one of the most stressful parts of this business other than the weather.”
In the past, growers could rely on local families who would return to work for them each season for years but that was no longer the case, he said.
“I use a theory if I need 30 people, I get 40 people, locals, ’cause on average I only get 30 every day … They just don’t turn up, they couldn’t get a ride, I don’t know, but their reliability, I mean, you just can’t depend on it.”
He was unable to comment on drug use as an issue as the industry didn’t usually test for it.
"We don’t test for drugs – we should, I mean, the theory is if we do test for drugs, we may not have any staff… [although] that’s anecdotal.”
The RSE scheme had “worked brilliantly”, especially in Hawke’s Bay, Mr Stallard said.
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Sorry - doubled up.
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Failed crackpot economic theory creates hopeless underclass, instead of offering to pay to help clean up it's economic fuck ups it blames the underclass and seeks to replace it with indentured labour from the third world.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
The same goes for the dairy industry. A mid-Canterbury dairy farmer who didn’t want to be named told Newshub he employed and housed four immigrant workers, and has just employed another one because the only two Kiwis who applied had drug records.
The fuck? So they're to be banned from ever working again?
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From NBR (paywalled):
Employers and Manufactures Association chief executive Kim Campbell says the problem is bigger than Mr English might be letting on.
“What he hasn’t said, which is a bigger problem, is people aren’t presenting themselves for work for the jobs in the first place because they are whacked [drugged up].”
He says this is evident by simply looking at New Zealand’s economic data.
“We have a headline GDP growth of well over 3%, inflation closer to 1% and an unemployment rate of 5.2%.
“Normally, with this kind of strong economic data, the unemployment rate would be closer to 3%.”
He says the rest are the “unemployable.”
“People like me in businesses are calling [Mr English] and saying either we’re not getting Kiwis applying, or when we do they don’t pass the drug test – so many of them.”
Right. You've been regaling the Prime Minister with your made-up facts about how all those young people are on drugs and that's why unemployment isn't lower because it stands to reason really when you think about it doesn't it because it's "evident".
FUCKSAKE.
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Katharine Moody, in reply to
The fuck? So they’re to be banned from ever working again?
The NZ Drug Foundation pointed this problem out in a tweet - said that past criminal records for possession/social supply was more a barrier to work for many young people. Straight-forward calling English out as a dog whistler:
NZ Drug Foundation executive director Ross Bell said the available statistics showed only a "small minority" failed tests.
"He's [English] a guy who really likes data, so I thought he'd be much more careful - I guess as it's election year you can do that kind of dog whistle stuff…
But of course he will have reached a far smaller audience than this idiot.
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Katharine Moody, in reply to
FUCKSAKE.
Refusal to accept factual data on this issue is one thing, but the complete absence of empathy and compassion in so many National Party members and supporters is even more disturbing.
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Bart Janssen, in reply to
So you are conceding that English was told these things by employers. Therefore he wasn't lying when he said so. Thanks for that.
I am still saying English was lying.
As I explained in the bit that your confirmation bias made you unable to understand -
Those statements would have been checked before English repeated them, by the time he repeated them he would have known full well those statements were false.Repeating something you know is false is a lie.
Pretending it's OK to repeat something you know is a lie just because someone else said it is something we teach children not to do.
But your unwavering defense of our PM is admirable.
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Farmer Green, in reply to
Most employers live in fear of a workplace accident being investigated by the OSH police, and agriculture has some of the worst accident statistics in the country.
The OSH laws in relation to drug use identify "safety - sensitive " workplaces as having a special status.
It is far from inconceivable that , in the event of a farm accident, a farmer could be held liable for having endangered other workers by employing someone known to have used drugs in the past.
You might be incredulous that such fear of OSH exists, but it is common , and it is not paranoid. -
Russell Brown, in reply to
But of course he will have reached a far smaller audience than this idiot.
Oh, good grief.
Hosking declares MSD’s drug-testing + sanctions regime “exposed just how bad the [drug] problem was”.
NO, IT DIDN’T. THAT'S THE WHOLE FUCKING POINT YOU MORON.
(Sorry, that was my text version of shouting at the TV.)
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Katharine Moody, in reply to
And he repeated the diatribe on TVNZ Seven Sharp. I'm seriously thinking of lodging a complaint with the broadcasters and then the BSA. Did that regarding the JK 'cage' stunt and eventually the BSA made the right call on that one... but their ruling hardly got a mention in the press :-). Wet bus ticket, but nonetheless satisfying to get positive outcomes from push back on these objectionable antics.
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Moz, in reply to
locals, ’cause on average I only get 30 every day … They just don’t turn up, they couldn’t get a ride, I don’t know, but their reliability, I mean, you just can’t depend on it.”
Translation: I don't pay locals enough for them to afford a reliable car each, or even one reliable car between three or four of them. The pay is so low that if anything better turns up they'll do that.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that the essence of "casual workers", they work when it suits them and the boss... if you don't want casual workers, hire permanent ones. Or is "casual" only supposed to go one way - they're always available whenever the employer happens to want them, but by god they had better turn up promptly and enthusiastically whenever the boss calls.
I think it's telling that the wages and conditions on dairy farms only attract the truly desperate locals. People with recent drug convictions who are finding it impossible to get any other work, anything at all, so they're willing to go and live on a dairy farm and get treated like sh!t for sh!t pay.... nope, not good enough for this prince of the land, he demands a better class of peasant.
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Benedict Collins with the actual numbers on Checkpoint yesterday.
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Farmer Green, in reply to
The essence is contained in the compulsory employment contract which must contain the phrase - "the hours of work are such as shall be agreed from time to time between the parties".
So it always goes both ways. And at the end of each casual employment session , the contract is concluded. A new casual session is a new contract. It works perfectly for both parties. -
Farmer Green, in reply to
ng that the wages and conditions on dairy farms only attract the truly desperate
That is no small exaggeration : it seems like a gross generalisation to me.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
The OSH laws in relation to drug use identify “safety – sensitive ” workplaces as having a special status.
It is far from inconceivable that , in the event of a farm accident, a farmer could be held liable for having endangered other workers by employing someone known to have used drugs in the past.Nowhere in any advice that I can find is blanket banning suggested as a reasonable move. Employment NZ's drug and alcohol advice certainly goes nowhere near the idea. Ditto for Safer Farms.
And employer with reason to believe there's a safety problem can generally require both pre-employment or employee drug tests, as part of a drug and alcohol policy.
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Farmer Green, in reply to
I don’t disagree with your statement, but every individual has the right to impose a blanket ban if he / she does not want the risk or the hassle. The pool of suitable labour to select from will be much smaller, but the right to be selective remains.
The employer does not get to decide if there is a safety problem: the problem is presumed by OSH to exist if the industry is deemed safety sensitive. -
Katharine Moody, in reply to
I think the thing with farming is that it has never suited an hourly-rate type wage model - that's the essence of the family farm and the nature of the old NZ farming community - relatives and other farmers pitched in without the need for remuneration when required, and the farmer him/herself never put him/herself on a time clock in considering his/her average wage.
So the problem with our intensified and corporate style of farming today is that more hired help is needed - and particularly in today's environment of lower and lower commodity pricing - it is never going to work out to be particularly economic in hiring wage workers - hence the trend toward exploitation of overseas workers.
Just my thoughts - in other words, only supported by anecdotal evidence :-).
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