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Speaker: Identification strategy: Now it’s personal

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  • Deborah,

    Raybon Kan in the NZ Herald: If Chinese buy houses and pay you too much - you don't like it

    Being Chinese in New Zealand always puts you on the back foot. We don't play the race card: we show up with it stuck to our face. So, when mainland Chinese house-buyers are accused of being the nation's problem, I can't help but feel attacked as well. Because I don't entirely buy it when you say it's not about being Chinese in the face. We know what you mean when you say foreign ownership. You don't mean state houses being sold to Australia. You don't mean Canadian pension funds. You don't mind the white: you don't see the white. White is how things should be.

    New Lynn • Since Nov 2006 • 1447 posts Report Reply

  • simon g,

    The Herald seems to be churning out columns by the hour. Four or five new ones today?

    The columns themselves might say different things, but the comments underneath don't.

    (I liked Raybon Kan's piece, although (because?) it clearly went over lots of heads).

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1330 posts Report Reply

  • Katharine Moody, in reply to simon g,

    The Herald seems to be churning out columns by the hour. Four or five new ones today?

    This is a useful one - although I disagree with the suggestion to only impose the stamp duty to Auckland properties - we really don't want to exacerbate the problem to a nationwide one;

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11481287

    Wellington • Since Sep 2014 • 798 posts Report Reply

  • Katharine Moody, in reply to simon g,

    (I liked Raybon Kan’s piece, although (because?) it clearly went over lots of heads).

    Chris Trotter refers to it in his recent comment;

    http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2015/07/15/perilous-whites-labour-china-and-the-liberal-intelligentsia/

    Wellington • Since Sep 2014 • 798 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to simon g,

    (I liked Raybon Kan'http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-identification-strategy-now-its-personal/?i=100#post343710s piece, although (because?) it clearly went over lots of heads).

    I'd say it went right over the heads of the significant and growing proportion of NZers whose names don't, and probably never will, appear on a property title deed.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4593 posts Report Reply

  • Dismal Soyanz,

    And meanwhile Phil Twyford goes for the double and shoots the right foot as well:

    "I think the whistle-blower I dealt with did Aucklanders a favour and put this information into the domain out of a sense of public duty. I think Aucklanders owe that person a debt of gratitude."

    The race to the bottom in this country's politics is starting to get depressing.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2010 • 310 posts Report Reply

  • Katharine Moody, in reply to Joe Wylie,

    I’d say it went right over the heads of the significant and growing proportion of NZers whose names don’t, and probably never will, appear on a property title deed.

    Seems like another example of typecasting to me? Just what category do these "significant and growing proportion of NZers " belong to? As it seems to me you have 'profiled' them into some kind of homogeneous grouping that are supposedly less intelligent than you (because the post referred to did not go over your head)?

    Wellington • Since Sep 2014 • 798 posts Report Reply

  • Katharine Moody, in reply to Mike Steinberg,

    Agree.

    Wellington • Since Sep 2014 • 798 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Katharine Moody,

    Seems like another example of typecasting to me? Just what category do these "significant and growing proportion of NZers " belong to? As it seems to me you have 'profiled' them into some kind of homogeneous grouping that are supposedly less intelligent than you (because the post referred to did not go over your head)?

    As a non-property owner and longtime renter I happen to be very much a part of this group - not that that's any of your goddam judgmental business. When Khan reduces his case to what one might be prepared to pay for the 'privilege' of living in one's homeland, he's blissfully ignoring the reality of those who are simply unable to pay.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4593 posts Report Reply

  • Katharine Moody, in reply to Joe Wylie,

    So you are part of this group - but you're smarter than most of them? Is that what you mean? Who's Khan?

    Wellington • Since Sep 2014 • 798 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Katharine Moody,

    So you are part of this group - but you're smarter than most of them? Is that what you mean? Who's Khan?

    Raybon Khan. As for the rest of your questions, bothering to answer them would have about as much point as asking you whether you really are running for village idiot around here.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4593 posts Report Reply

  • Katharine Moody, in reply to Joe Wylie,

    Raybon Khan.

    Oh, it’s Kan, actually.

    I might be an idiot (i.e., not on your level by your standards along with all those other masses of NZers out there), but am I am on ‘your side’ in terms of the injustice of this free flow of foreign direct capital investment in our residential RE market. Just read my posts of the first page of this thread.

    Wellington • Since Sep 2014 • 798 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to Katharine Moody,

    but am I am on ‘your side’ in terms of the injustice of this free flow of foreign direct capital investment in our residential RE market.

    I'd say most of us agree that ugly nativism is a symptom of globalisation benefiting only those at the very top. But at the very least, political leaders like Twyford need to know the difference between a laser-guided smart bomb and a MOAB.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5441 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Katharine Moody,

    Kan. My bad.

    Katharine, I'm not taking sides on this. I'm simply dismayed that Kan, a writer I generally admire, joins so many others in ignoring the growing proportion for whom, regardless of ethnicity, home ownership is a fading dream. If his message goes 'over their heads' it's because it's irrelevant to their situation, not because of any intellectual shortcomings on their part. If I've made that a little clearer then I regret not having said so sooner.

    BTW I've been a homeowner. I even had a stake in a modest commercial property once, but sometimes these things don't last. While it might not be the commonest set of threads in life's tapestry, IMHE there's a bit of it about.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4593 posts Report Reply

  • Katharine Moody, in reply to Joe Wylie,

    If his message goes ‘over their heads’ it’s because it’s irrelevant to their situation, not because of any intellectual shortcomings on their part.

    Right, I get what you mean now - good point!!!

    Wellington • Since Sep 2014 • 798 posts Report Reply

  • Rich Lock, in reply to Kumara Republic,

    But at the very least, political leaders like Twyford need to know the difference between a laser-guided smart bomb and a MOAB.

    Hard not to see this as a massive stuff-up, whether the alienation angle was planned/accounted for, or not.

    From here (which is, admittedly, some way away), it appears that the only thing being discussed is whether this is racist, or not. And the thing not being discussed is the actual underlying issue. So instead of hammering the government on lack of affordable housing, potential problems with massive overseas investment, etc, Labour are spending their entire time explaining how this totally isn't racist, you guys, geez.

    There's a political strategy known as the dead cat strategy that is apparently much loved by everyone's favourite Australian political advisors.

    Seems to me that Labour have carefully prepared, and thrown, their very own dead cat onto the table, and are now desperately trying to get people to talk about something else, while acting utterly confused as to why the only thing their guests want to talk about is the dead cat.

    If that's a correct analysis, then perhaps a peashooter or a nerf gun would be slightly more suitable ordnance. Slightly less chance of massive friendly fire casualties...

    back in the mother countr… • Since Feb 2007 • 2728 posts Report Reply

  • WH,

    We’ve discussed Auckland’s housing market and the extent of foreign ownership of New Zealand’s economy on many occasions here. This is part of a story that goes back past the 1990 sale of Telecom to Bell Atlantic and Ameritech. I find it remarkable that statistical methods that clearly show an unexpected amount of foreign investment activity are being used to obscure the social and economic consequences of that investment. Short of a crash, this is not a trend that is going to stop on its own.

    Phil Goff recently said:

    I would die in a ditch to give people of whatever ethnicity the same rights as New Zealand residents. But I have a very clear view that people from overseas should not be investing in the New Zealand market.

    I think that’s a pretty easy thing to understand if you’re inclined to make the effort, and I’m wary of the way in which unsubstantiated allegations of racism can damage reputations and subvert discussion of what in this case are critical issues. Whilst acknowledging that racism itself is by far the more prevalent and pressing concern, I think more care is needed.

    Putting foreign ownership and ethnicity entirely to one side, my personal view is that we have some very serious and potentially irreversible mistakes with respect to our housing market.

    Since Nov 2006 • 797 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to WH,

    and subvert discussion

    that was my concern at the outset - and sure enough, days later what are we talking about?

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming,

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2935 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to ,

    there’s not much talk about dairy farm land, or power generators being included in ‘the foreign invester problem’.

    Well....not at the moment, and not amongst urban liberals, amongst whom I mostly hang out and who are mostly on this blog. But it wasn't so long ago the the Crafar farms was a daily news item. I had some sympathy for farmers who feel that dairy land is increasingly impossible to get hold of, but also felt the issue smacked of racism. Because it does. Which doesn't necessarily make the farmers' concern invalid. That time, Key dogwhistled a little, but in the end, let it go.

    I can't remember who got the most mileage out of it. Peters? Labour managed to get slagged for being racist? Peters managed to get votes for being racist? National managed to hang onto votes despite not being racist? The Greens managed to get hated by farmers because the Crafars were big polluters and cruel to animals? Anyone remember?

    It was hard to feel quite the same way for me because farms are businesses. If the money they're making is getting repatriated by rich Chinese, or via rich stockholders in Fonterra, it's hard for me to care which it is.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10657 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to ,

    But it’s not racist becouse there is a mass potential votes from to gain from people who are passionate about owning a house in Auckland.

    Also people who want to rent a house in Auckland. In short, everyone in Auckland, beyond the age of about 18.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10657 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to ,

    I do now. Dairy farms fall into the overseas invertment office jurisdiction. Becouse they are productive assets.

    Nup, more because they are sensitive land parcels and/or worth more than $100million See the OIO webpage

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2935 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen Judd, in reply to WH,

    I think that’s a pretty easy thing to understand if you’re inclined to make the effort, and I’m wary of the way in which unsubstantiated allegations of racism

    This makes sense if you view racism as a matter of intent. The pure in heart can't be racist.

    Many people though see it as about what you do and say, not your intent. If you single out a particular group with bad consequences for them, it doesn't matter whether you don't mean them harm. Phil's undoubted commitment to fairness doesn't mean he can't do or say unfair things. You can do a racist thing without malicious intent.

    I think this difference in understanding what it means to be racist -- whether it's about intent, or about consequences in our inherently racist society -- is at the heart of the dispute about whether we can label what's happened as racist as opposed to an unfortunate alignment of data that we really need to use. To put it another way, it's more useful to talk about whether actions and words are racist in effect, than whether people are racist (and implicitly damned) in their hearts.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 3122 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Stephen Judd,

    Great distinction, thanks. Racism is often so pervasive, structural and history-laden we are all swimming in it no matter what our personal intent. Political parties know this stuff. I have seen plenty of people describing Labour's behaviour as racism without describing any person involved as a racist.

    I've heard a pleasing maturity accepting that the underlying issue about foreign capital inflows is valid while decrying the ham-fisted way it has been presented. Also some loudly insisting you can't hold both positions at once, sure.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Stephen Judd,

    To put it another way, it’s more useful to talk about whether actions and words are racist in effect, than whether people are racist (and implicitly damned) in their hearts.

    Exactly.

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2935 posts Report Reply

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