Speaker: Copyright Must Change
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can't count
More like won't count. what the fuck are you doing actually counting 100 pages on a pointless discussion forum. have you not got drinks with umbrellas to be sipping on beach front apartment balcony's?
you give excess a bad name.101 is the completion of 100 pages. the first post on page 100 isn't the 100th page, its the start of the 100th page 19 posts later you reach 2000 posts and 2000 divided by 20 per page is 100.
or do you want to try some creative accounting.
I blame kyle, he insisted on this whole accuracy thing.
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a) hasn't liked or listened much to anything since 1982,
and how long has hip hop been around. didn't you say 30 years, so doesn't that same statement apply to you? you're still hyped by a genre that's been around for 20 years and to be honest hasn't progressed as much as it should have in that time. the wiff of stale is strong in this one.
besides I listed genres from all the years in between. MVB was 88- 92, iron and wine and surjan stevens is this century, etc etc.
But in a war of bitching technical details are beside the point. please continue with the the cat scratches, I'm kind of enjoying it.you're just upset that I don't see the world as you see it.
and chances are if you were to mention how hiphop was one of the greatest music genres ever half the population would look at you blankly. its one of the greatest from your perspective. ie western middle class, that's valid to you and I respect that. but the world is made up of all kinds. perhaps if you were to ask latin american or muslims countries how they felt about your claim you might get a different response.I'm not going to make sweeping generalisation about what essentially boils down to a matter of taste. I'll leave that to you.
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I'm not going to make sweeping generalisation about what essentially boils down to a matter of taste. I'll leave that to you.
Liking or not liking the genre is neither here nor there Rob. I don't like huge parts of it but so what. I'm not a fan of bluegrass but I'm well aware of it's influence and importance, same with Choral Music or Gregorian Chant. To deny it is just, lets be generous, ignorant.
And I'm thinking that not understanding it's importance or being an informed observer of what's happened since about '82 probably disqualifies you from discussing contemporary issues like copyright in the digital age.
What's' yer fave Buzzcocks' B side?
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Liking or not liking the genre is neither here nor there Rob.
apparently to you it is which is what's reeked about your comments on it.
And I'm thinking that not understanding it's importance or being an informed observer of what's happened since about '82 probably disqualifies you
and it would too, if it were true, but you know it isn't so you can drop that whole act.
I said I don't like it personally and I'm not denying its had a big impact but for you to say itsone of the most vibrant and important musical genres of all time
is a little premature, and possibly a little blinkered from your personal perspective. Russell was fairer with his "of the popular music era" comment and if he'd added on "in western culture" that would have been more on the money. but we're not here to pretend we're in the book high fidelity, so perhaps a little less of the my record collections better than yours might be applicable. I don't mind it to hype up the post count to 100 but really, where is there to go from here, 200 is not worth the effort I think you'll agree.
What's' yer fave Buzzcocks' B side?
"harmony in my head", but that was a double a side I think.
not a massive fan outside of that though. who needs the buzzcocks when we have the mint chicks. hang on, that whole cyclic music thing is going to mess with your imagined music high ground. I won't go there. -
is a bit bitter and twisted that there is no audience for the music his mates and scene are making and playing,
correct me if I'm wrong but haven't I made this point quite a few times already. its not that there is no audience it's that the audience expects to pay less. the gigs are full, but full of people wanting to pay less than they did way back in your day some time last century. contemplate the implications of that rather than being offended that someone pointed it out.
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is a little premature, and possibly a little blinkered from your personal perspective. Russell was fairer with his "of the popular music era" comment and if he'd added on "in western culture" that would have been more on the money.
Thus proving how woefuly out of touch you are..do you have any idea how far hip hop has moved into Asia, Africa and much of the third world..it's massive, perhaps the most global of all post jazz based genres. I found it funny that you tagged things like electronica and drum'n'bass above..two genres that couldn't exist without the massive influence and vibrancy that the hip-hop revolution bought.
I might sound arrogant Rob, but your comment was still ignorant and I reckon that aside from a few old buggers moaning into their beers about the good old days you're pretty much on your own here.
contemplate the implications of that rather than being offended that someone pointed it out.
yep contemplated it, worked out that lotsa people are doing ok out there, although they've been discounted by you upthread because they do have an audience that wants to pay to see them. It still comes down to you not making people excited enough to want to pay to see you. Nothing else matters. I dunno how many times I've heard people recite this over the years and it's always someone else's fault.
And I've contemplated this century and the fact that my name appears on a fair number of records, including a number one single and several platinum albums..but I guess they don't count since people like them, eh?
Like I said, it's harder to make music that people like rather than music that people don't like..the latter usually need someone to blame. End of post.
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I think it's time to kill this thread because I actually quite like you and it's getting us into areas we don't need to go to
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I actually quite like you and it's getting us into areas we don't need to go to
I love you too bro,
.... man hug???
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I've got an Epiphone guitar and valve amp, that I don't really know how to play. Its ornamental.
Beats an air guitar any day.
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Beats an air guitar any day.
I prefer to beat air drums. Tried to start a band actually but it's hard to think of a name since Quiet Riot is taken.
Also, posting in thread I quit, lol.
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I prefer to beat air drums.
my mental image of this might not actually match the cold hard reality of it but it gave me a chuckle.
drumming including the air variety is all in how you hold your mouth while doing it. if you master that you have a solid career ahead of you, air on otherwise. -
justgot round to finishing reading that article linked above which was in yesterdays press and a reprint of a may 10th article from the guardian
end of free - from the guardian
It is the music business that has been caught struggling in the web the longest. The decline in profits in the industry has been dramatic. In 2008, 95% of the music that was downloaded from the internet was illegal. The future, many believe, now lies in music-streaming websites such as Spotify.
Mike Smith, managing director of Columbia Records, believes his industry made a "fundamental error" in letting people think music was free.
"When you listen to streamed music through Spotify, somebody is still being paid," Smith says. "These things are only free as a way of selling their site to you, or their newspaper, or their brand. Unfortunately, a mentality has grown up in our society that believes an album is free."
and this
the public's search for "something for nothing" will go on forever. In the words of the Roman poet Juvenal, one of the oldest pundits available on the web: "All wish to possess knowledge, but few, comparatively speaking, are willing to pay the price."
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Yeah, it was an interesting article.
For all his multitude of sins, you can't accuse Rupert of not understanding the media business. I think he's right about 'free' being unsustainable, but wrong about paywalls/subscriptions being an option. Been done...
Micro-payments and strict copyright enforcement might just make it work, but.... but but but... (I was surprised to find a p2p feed of super 14 live, just when I wanted it. It's still there... Mr Murdoch?!)
People expect free. They like free. I know I do.
And the jury is still out on webvertising. Not enough money to go round is just one part of it. Niche audiences are by definition smaller, but potentially more lucrative.
Except it's easy to block internet ads. I don't, but, to be honest, I find them easy to ignore- except for the annoying ones, and who wants to reward them. I can't think of one I've ever clicked. I've certainly never bought anything that way.
I think that's because on the net, we're a much more "active" audience. If we want to buy something, you bet we can find it. And fast, and compare prices, and look second-hand, and find out how much it costs in New York...
Advertising has attempted to adapt- I'm sure there advertising games and short-films and undrempt of widgets being developed- but that's a risky and expensive strategy.
Spotify might just get by on advertising- but at the moment, even the giants, with a multitude of ears/eyeballs- like Spotify and Youtube- find it hard to turn a profit on that model. -
3410,
I prefer to beat air drums. Tried to start a band actually but it's hard to think of a name since Quiet Riot is taken.
The Silent Knights?
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I prefer to beat air drums. Tried to start a band actually but it's hard to think of a name since Quiet Riot is taken.
The Silent Knights?
would all depend what genre you're air drumming in.
if you're a post rock Canadian wave band perhaps the librarian drum academy would but high brow enough.
mayby some retro 90's grunge with Mr Ssshhhh
or perhaps you'd like to re invent the madchester scene from pissy old chch on your parents money with some
bang bang sssshhhh
don't know if there's a hip hop equivalent cos they steal all their drum beats....
what? too soon?
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bang bang sssshhhh
make that bang bang quiet
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don't know if there's a hip hop equivalent cos they steal all their drum beats....
what? too soon?
Heh. Air turntables yes, but air 808 would be a new one.
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but air 808 would be a new one.
maybe that's all the guys with their arms folded standing behind the dj.
all step entered drum patterns they did before the show. hit start and watch it play back. -
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Except it's easy to block internet ads. I don't, but, to be honest, I find them easy to ignore- except for the annoying ones, and who wants to reward them. I can't think of one I've ever clicked. I've certainly never bought anything that way.
I follow add links if it's of interest, but only once. Either the site gets bookmarked and I go there directly thereafter or I ignore the place for a few years and give it time to evolve or die.
The main problem for advertising is many sites that advertise aren't selling anything but more add space, which can't work. You need something for visitors to buy, with money, like archive access, so those who link to you and your products and services can take a big chunk of any resulting order (and not get much of anything otherwise). 'S the model that works for someone other than the add server, eh.
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I apologise if this story has been previously added to the thread, but I've not had the time to follow it properly since about page 24.
This was flagged on boingboing, so some may have seen it. As a teacher, who could possibly be in breach of copyright at anytime, from photocopying resources to making use of youtube - I was pretty stunned at the MPAA's suggested solution to using DVD clips.
Basically it involves pointing a camcorder at a TV screen "in the dark" and then editing the resulting footage with VLC.
Apparently it's OK to do cam copies at home - but not in the theatre, coz crappy copies are OK if you're doing it for educational purposes.
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Hi tim, yes that was posted only a few pages back.
as a teacher how do you use and how do you want to use copy protected material from dvd for teaching. we're short on real world examples and would love to hear your requirements.
then editing the resulting footage with VLC.
not sure if vlc allows for editing. its simply a multi file format playback program, and a really good one at that. presumably you'd have to have access and skills with final cut pro, or i movie to trim your material to the parts you needed as you would if you extracted from dvd.
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Up for consideration during the 2009 exemption hearings is whether this exemption should be extended to apply to faculty teaching in all disciplines, and whether the exemption should apply to students.
That's the interesting part right there.
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as a teacher how do you use and how do you want to use copy protected material from dvd for teaching.
I'd be interested to hear that, too. Do you want to be able to copy dvds and hand them out to students? Or is it simply making a back-up copy, or copying a dvd from a library, to use in class?
There are all sorts of new initiatives on the education front- e-cast for example.
But I don't understand where education sits with the Feb law changes- and I should, really. The copyright expert on our campus- and the law lecturers whom she asks for advice- are also vague on the new law's provisions for education.
That is a problem with the new legislation: we ought to at least know where we stand!- -
as a teacher how do you use and how do you want to use copy protected material from dvd for teaching. we're short on real world examples and would love to hear your requirements.
First up - the amount of paper based analog school content that is photocopied and breaks copyright is far greater than any digital content being abused.
I regularly use youtube clips, on Friday used a clip of sepak takraw, as a bit of an intro to Thai language lesson - it was from StarTV I think, so was probably breaking copyright. I try to use teachertube more regularly, as most of its content is created by teachers and students for an education market. If I make use of flickr images in presentations, I search for Creative Commons licensed content.
But I'm conscious of breaking copyright...
I play my iPod in class - with music from my collection - that's probably breaking copyright - playback in a public space.
I have read my students "To Kill a Mockingbird" and "Under the Mountain" - and then showed the movie and TV series on DVD in class to compare and contrast with the books. Probably breaking copyright again.
I have taught a series of lessons on basics of film making - and used some clips from "The Incredibles" extras DVD, which highlighted the process from storyboarding, to modelling, to final shot. In some lessons looking at the oceans, and issues of pollution, I've shown clips from the BBC's "Blue Planet" DVD series.
Again - breaking copyright most likely.
Should I now be following the MPAA's instruction and capturing this content with a DV camera, exporting into iMovie, editing into clips, laying off to VHS or playing off the laptop, to playback in class?
I'm confused by this MPAA clip - they want me to degrade their intellectual property, so as to share with a class. What are they seeking to protect - the content? or the delivery mechanism?
I should state that I disagree with those teachers who will just slap a movie into the player at the end of a term - it reduces the job to babysitting, and despite having days like that myself - it's not right. If we, as teachers are to make use of digital content in the classroom, we need to be planning and integrating its use effectively.
At my school we have quite a few resources on VHS, even some film reels lying around. I'd guess that many schools around the country have the same. Should we purchase all of that intellectual property again, in the DVD format? Or should we be able to encode it to a digital format ourselves - with or without the MPAA's approved "point cam at screen" approach.
We're starting to make use of digital audio a lot more - podcasts of audiobooks, Rainbow readers and such.
I'm actually more frustrated at the standard and level of the conversation about copyright issues. I'm no expert on the matter, but NZFACT's education section on their website is IMO a threatening, misguided, deliberately ugly view of the copyright debate.
http://www.nzfact.co.nz/education.html
The page is riddled with silly commentary, including the statements like this:
"Schools and universities today harbor some of the swiftest computer networks in New Zealand, a situation which unfortunately has led some people to download and illegally distribute films and TV programs. "
Yes - it's the school's high-speed networks that are to blame.
I don't see NZFACT attacking Telecom or TelstraClear for providing the network services.
Then there's this gem:
"If you use peer-to-peer file-sharing services, you risk breaking the law, downloading a serious computer virus, sharing your personal data, which can lead to identity theft, and getting exposed to pornographic materials"
Yes - that's right - P2P will lead to identity theft, a very, very serious computer virus, and even boobies. I'm surprised they don't include the line "and blow up your computer!"
The pdf that they sent out to teachers and schools is quite an offensive design, loaded images that show "evil" apparently lurking behind every screen - it's the same graffiti style font that the "Don't download!!!!" video clips before every movie screening has.
http://www.nzfact.co.nz/press_releases/P2P Illegal filesharing.pdf
As I read that, and look at the MPAA's aforementioned link, it strikes me that protecting/preventing delivery channels (revenue streams) from being used by others apart from themselves is NZFACT's main purpose - not protecting content or ideas.
A simpler way of discussing what's copyright/copywrong is as Gever Tulley suggests in his TED speech from 2007 - buying a song off iTunes, burn it to CD, then rip the CD to an mp3 - and play it back on the computer. You're breaking a law - which might frighten or give some students a buzz - but it's a much better place to start the discussion - then NZFACT's stance of ALL P2P is BAD, mmkkaayy....
Sadly, in my view, some students do now subscribe to the view that all downloading is stealing - they've seen the "Don't Download!" ads and believe it. I asked them if copying TV shows to VHS is stealing - they said "No" - so I asked what was the difference between me torrenting a TV episode from the internet. They couldn't tell me.
(Actually I had to change the question and ask if copying to a hard-drive/DVD player was stealing.)
They've never heard of Creative Commons, or fair use. I'd hazard a guess that most teachers haven't either.
I had one student reading the text version of Cory Doctorow's "Little Brother" on the class computer - he'd brought the file in from home, and other students were accosting him and telling him that was illegal. Having read the book myself and knowing that Doctorow has released the entire text in a variety of formats, it was easy to sort the situation, but it's scary when students see all online formats as wrong - because of what they've been told. Introducing Google Books to them was quite an eye-opener - they couldn't understand how so much content could be available to view.
This is not the brave new world - this is where we are now - and rather than have the reactionary example of Sione's Wedding being stolen (physically) and Tem Morrison constantly talking down to the education sector, it'd be good to be discussing the reality.
But I won't hold my breath - this stuff isn't covered in the curriculum - and it takes some serious thinking around what is a complex issue. You can't assess it, so it won't be part of the new national standards.
I hope that answers your query Rob and robbery - I don't pretend to understand all of the legal issues. I do want to use digital content in my classroom lessons, and I want to use all content fairly.
Teachers are constantly using and reusing each others ideas - knowledge in our eyes is not a commodity - it's what we do on a daily basis - we create and share content. We're paid to do just that - to meet our students in the world they're in and help them make connections with that knowledge. We don't charge for the sharing or the knowledge.
That's not to say we don't want to pay for knowledge - but it would be sad if it was easier to not use available knowledge, because of prohibitive legislation, or if the methods of using knowledge was insanely difficult.
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