Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: These things we must now change

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  • Neil,

    He also identifies Labour’s positions on immigration and housing at the last election. I think it should be possible, in principle, to debate immigration policy settings like any others, but something happened during the campaign that impressed on me how easy it is for that debate to spill over into something else.

    There’s been no indication that the Prime Minister or Deputy Prime Minister are the least bit interested in addressing how their parties contributed to ethnic divisions.

    Since Nov 2016 • 382 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen, in reply to andin,

    and death visits

    Death did visit, and I was still the same atheist I've always been.

    Besides I hadn't had the salmon mouse anyway.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4460 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    I hadn’t had the salmon mouse anyway

    a classic 'narrow squeak' then?
    ;- )

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7950 posts Report Reply

  • Pete,

    So the draft legislation is out and this is a big turning point
    Forget how I and other licensed shooters feel betrayed by our govt - I put this sole point to Jane and John voter- the police have failed in their current licensing system to keep track of where anything is (remember INCIS?) right now with the system looking at B-cat/E-cat/C-cat which is Pistols/ARs/Collectors incl machineguns to you lot

    I have two licenses, I've met others with 5.They have lost track of pistols sold and tried adding ones that don't exist. They can't run the current system and yet they want your tax dollars for a bigger newer shinier registration system

    There is a big clusterfuck brewing and they have alienated so many of us for so long that we are inclined to fight them. This schism is akin to the Springbok tour

    There's no gun lobby but there's a whole lot of us who have complied with every stupid law for too long and now we are being screwed over because of a terrorist

    Also please stop asking if I'm gonna shoot everything/one in sight? It's insulting
    I don't even approve of The Walking Dead because I think it habituates people to killing their fellow humans - zombies don't exist
    No I am not even remotely interested
    Guns are fun and useful

    No I don't need a semiautomatic and you don't need a car

    I can't really be arsed arguing but I feel it is important at least to stand here with a sign noting the point where we cleave into two countries

    Since Apr 2008 • 106 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Pete,

    You seem intent on providing evidence that you are not a fit person to hold any sort of firearm licence,

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2935 posts Report Reply

  • simon g, in reply to Pete,

    Pete, the advantage of our current voting system is that you would only need 5% to make sure you are represented in Parliament. Possibly even less, if you can persuade one like-minded MP with an electorate to represent you (David Seymour seems keen!).

    You are opposed to legislation that (so far) Labour and National support, plus 2 other parties, so if there is the depth and breadth of feeling that you claim, then the dissenters have a clear and peaceful path ahead. Engage in the democratic process. Win votes. Get elected.

    We won't be "two countries". Just the same one, with new representatives in Parliament, if you succeed. That's how it works.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1330 posts Report Reply

  • Pete, in reply to simon g,

    Yes absolutely you are correct and I am not trying to push an agenda or drop screeds of paragraph-less stream of consciousness anti-1080 type ranting

    I am trying to be the sign on the map that says "Here be Draggonnes" pointing out that this has been a major event outside of this leftwing echochamber and that the repercussions will be longstanding and deep

    You folks won't see it here because you have a small footprint on this sort of area

    Never mind, carry on, let NZ lemming tell me I'm not fit and proper whatever, we are not any threat to you and have never been one but we walk amongst you and this is where a lot of us have parted ways

    Carry on, have fun, I wish you all the best of luck

    Since Apr 2008 • 106 posts Report Reply

  • andin, in reply to Pete,

    this has been a major event outside of this leftwing echochamber

    What the changing of gun legislation?
    Enough with the dismissive rhetoric too
    The thought ever crossed your mind you may be in an echo chamber?

    Guns are fun and useful

    Im pretty sure you are in the minority with that sentiment.

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1890 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    Meanwhile back in Australia... The Shooter, Fishers and Farmers Party,
    https://www.smh.com.au/national/no-other-party-has-taken-the-hammer-to-our-gun-laws-like-this-one-20190331-p519e6.html
    I like how they position themselves in "the Dead Centre"
    I suspect they don't mean Alice Springs....
    (after all that's 'The Red Centre', right?)

    also see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooters,_Fishers_and_Farmers_Party

    They seem angry and their legacy will involve 'cross heirs'....
    The AFL should be the only ones with 'a right to bare arms'!

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7950 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Pete,

    I can’t really be arsed arguing but I feel it is important at least to stand here with a sign noting the point where we cleave into two countries

    Hell, you almost had n=me there Pete - until I realised it was the April Fools Day

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7950 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Pete,

    I don't need a semiautomatic and you don't need a car

    I don't need a Ferrari to take the kids to school. Or a gun to make me feel like a man.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Pete,

    the repercussions will be longstanding and deep

    Meaningful change ought to provoke some resistance. However, it will prevail this time.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • andin,

    “Here be Draggonnes”

    Or senile old coots who like to think they call a spade a digging implement with which someone will be buried probably themselves under their own bullshit https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12218204

    If the police are being dicks make an official complain, just saying they are makes you look dumb

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1890 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen, in reply to Pete,

    You folks won’t see it

    I lived in the US for 3 years, half of that in Texas and Arizona. I've been to dinner at people's houses where they assured us that they made up for us in average gun ownership.

    Because I worked with these people and socialised with them, I decided I needed to do some research on the whole gun thing.

    That's why I already knew NZ had vastly more guns than most folks realised (including semiautomatics and high caliber "military style" ones).

    I'm a scientist, I'm used to reading scientific literature. I'm used to digging deep into subjects and separating data from anecdote and speculation from facts.

    Everything I read said the same thing. Gun ownership is terrible for society. And more significantly, gun ownership is a huge risk factor in suicide and harm to family. There are a couple of countries that are weird outliers (looking at you Switzerland) but overwhelmingly countries with more guns in private hands suffer more harm. Mostly to the gun owners and their families.

    It's a public health issue.

    So here's the thing, you seem convinced we're ignorant left-wing echo-chamber nuts. But all you present is your own anecdotes. You claim you represent law abiding folks whose guns would never harm anyone. But the data from NZ is the same as anywhere else - if you own a gun you are hundreds of fold more likely to harm someone than if you don't own a gun. That alone should give you pause. That the people likely to be harmed are yourself or your loved ones should terrify you.

    There are legitimate reasons to own a gun and legitimate reasons to even own a high powered semi-automatic.

    BUT the number of people who own guns in New Zealand is far higher than is legitimate or reasonable.

    AND the number of guns they own is far higher than is legitimate or reasonable*.

    For simple public health reasons New Zealand needs far fewer guns. So few that registering and tracking them would and will be simple.

    *note "collecting" is NOT reasonable when what you are collecting is a lethal weapon. Try Magic the Gathering if you want to collect something.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4460 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell,

    +1 - I also lived in the US for 20 years, the whole guns as quasi-religious deities thing there is just sad ... and dangerous - more guns in homes means more deaths (suicide, kids, accidents, domestic violence) - given that I don't see any reason why "collecting" has any real reason to exist in NZ

    I'd go further, I think that sport shooting (handguns etc) should be banned too, so we miss out on an Olympic medal every century or so, who cares

    I'll make my previous suggestion again - the "good keen man test": if you want to keep your arms license you have to turn in a brace of deer tails to the police every year

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2622 posts Report Reply

  • simon g,

    David Seymour has decided to "object" in Parliament, not to prevent new gun laws being passed, but to get himself a headline before they do.

    If Simon Bridges had any leadership skills or political antennae at all, he would now say: "David is free to do as he wishes, but National are not obliged to assist him, so we will be campaigning hard to win Epsom at the election. ACT will need to get over the threshold by themselves."

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1330 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Pete,

    No I don’t need a semiautomatic and you don’t need a car

    I do need a car, and you still don't need a semiautomatic. My car saves me an hour every day of commuting via public transport, enables transport of whole family rapidly around on the weekend to locations that can't even be reached any other way. What actual practical use is your military style semi automatic weapon? Put in actual real economic terms, and considering the alternatives (eg paying a pest control guy person to sort the pests out periodically)? Now, do those really, in your opinion, outweigh the tremendous danger that these firearms clearly present, as demonstrated patently only a few weeks ago?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10657 posts Report Reply

  • Alfie, in reply to Pete,

    No I don’t need a semiautomatic and you don’t need a car

    Er... one of these things transports us from A to B, whilst the other gives its owner the ability to extinguish life on an industrial scale. That's an odd analogy, at best.

    I'm still not sure what your argument is Pete, or if you even had one. For me the underlying question is, what possible justification does anyone in NZ have for owning military-style multiple-killing devices?

    Nicole whatever-her-name-is from the gun lobby is using her 15 minutes of fame to repeat the NRA line, that gun owners' rights are somehow being trampled in this process. To suck that one up you'd have to believe that a relatively small group of New Zealanders has some inherent "right" to possess their very own weapon of mass murder. Or two... or ten.

    Look around, Pete. From where I'm sitting the overwhelming majority of kiwis are no longer prepared to tolerate the flawed laws which allowed this tragedy to happen. We've had enough. And we fully support our government's speedy response. It's as simple as that.

    At this particular time in our country's history, anyone demanding continued citizen access to military weaponry inevitably comes across as a rather sad person, shouting pointlessly at some imagined approaching darkness.

    You don't need to be that man, Pete.

    = = =

    And while I'm here, David Tipple can go fuck himself.

    Dunedin • Since May 2014 • 1437 posts Report Reply

  • Alfie, in reply to ,

    Using a military style semiautomatic weapon to produce your own meat product is actually can actually save a tiny bit of money, if you’re not counting the bullets.

    Because semi-autos allow you to dice the animal as you kill it? Our laws will still allow five and seven shot magazines. Anyone who needs the multi-shot capacity of a military-style weapon to kill an animal is not a hunter -- they're a butcher.

    Dunedin • Since May 2014 • 1437 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to simon g,

    David Seymour has decided to “object” in Parliament, not to prevent new gun laws being passed, but to get himself a headline before they do.

    David Seymour spent so long telling reporters what he was going to do that he failed to show up in the Chamber in time to do it.

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2935 posts Report Reply

  • simon g, in reply to nzlemming,

    "Well, I believe you may get your headlines, Mr. Ismay." ( Titanic )

    Let's name and fame the reporter who delayed Seymour's arrival in the House simply by twirling her hair with her fingers, gazing at him dreamily and whispering "Ooh, David, tell us more ... ".

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1330 posts Report Reply

  • Simon Armstrong,

    Free countries don’t typically feature armed po-po do they? What exactly are the military style weapons they see fit to flaunt in public at every opportunity?

    New Zealand • Since Jan 2015 • 79 posts Report Reply

  • Tom Semmens, in reply to ,

    Because semi-autos allow you to dice the animal as you kill it? Our laws will still allow five and seven shot magazines.

    Given that there are some people who think the only acceptable weapons with which men should fight boars is a plastic spoon and a couple of hellhounds named “Adolf” and “Satan” that even their owner won't pat unexpectedly, anyone who can’t hit an angry pig with a seven round mag deserves to be tuskered.

    Sevilla, Espana • Since Nov 2006 • 2217 posts Report Reply

  • Moz, in reply to Alfie,

    one of these things transports us from A to B, whilst the other gives its owner the ability to extinguish life on an industrial scale.

    It’s cars that are used to “extinguish life on an industrial scale”. Even this year guns will kill far fewer kiwis than cars do, it’s not even close – the “right to drive” costs 380 lives a year just in direct kills. And “industrial” is the right term, they don’t just chop us up a few at a time, they spread a layer of toxic crud across the whole country while being supported by a network of dodgy companies funding secretive lobbyists.

    People arguing for public health based restrictions need to be very selective if they want to keep cars.

    That said, I think gun laws in NZ are ridiculously lax, I think the Thorpe report should be implemented and if anything tightened rather than loosened. Guns in Australia are straightforward to get for those that need them, and there’s a problem here with private arsenals as well as city boys going into rural areas and blazing away without thinking that “the bush” has people in it. We should aim for "significantly more restrictive than Australia" not "nicer to gun lovers than...".

    Sydney, West Island • Since Nov 2006 • 1233 posts Report Reply

  • Moz, in reply to Simon Armstrong,

    Free countries don’t typically feature armed po-po do they?

    By that measure there are almost no free countries. You've excluded UK, Australia, Aotearoa, Sweden. I'm struggling to think of countries where the Police rarely carry firearms.

    Sydney, West Island • Since Nov 2006 • 1233 posts Report Reply

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