Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: These things we must now change

Kumara Republic

Tue, 09 Jul 2019 19:38:39 +1200

That nice Mr Molyneux is showing his true colours again.

True colours indeed. More in this thread:

https://twitter.com/BenRoss_AKL/status/1148420739344678912

And no matter how loudly the self-proclaimed freeze peach fundies get worked up, deplatforming & boycotts do actually get results. Deep down, we need to follow the dark money...

https://twitter.com/saeen90_/status/1148359680982433798

I’ll leave the…

simon g

Tue, 09 Jul 2019 08:34:56 +1200

That nice Mr Molyneux is showing his true colours again.

It's worth noting that the fraudulent "Free Speech Coalition" still have their website up, reminding us that Molyneux was the victim that really mattered to them. (They haven't said anything at all since May, so I guess there haven't been…

simon g

Fri, 26 Apr 2019 22:07:55 +1200

Yesterday and today the Al Noor Mosque had two very different visitors: Destiny "Church" and Prince William. What a contrast.

The latter gave a speech that was moving, heartfelt, personal. And – considering his position – remarkably direct. I'm no royalist, or celeb chaser, but I was seriously impressed. He…

Moz

Fri, 19 Apr 2019 16:41:06 +1200

Over 99% of licenses are approved.

Part of that is because there are people who don't even bother applying (the criteria are public), but mostly because there are easy ways to scam the system. But that's because we live in a free society, the police don't already have a tidy…

simon g

Mon, 15 Apr 2019 21:28:44 +1200

As mentioned on another thread, I don't think polling in the immediate aftermath of 15/3 is justifiable, but today's TVNZ poll was conducted 3 weeks later. In fact, it was during Peak Seymour, and (to their credit) when National were supporting the new gun laws going through Parliament.

Point being,…

Ian Dalziel

Fri, 05 Apr 2019 10:40:23 +1300

One wonders if the police have the time to do the job properly.
I foresee a flying phalanx of frontline forensic clinical psychologists.
An authoritative touring Turing Test, enforcing the extraordinary ordinance for operating and using ordnance..

Bart Janssen

Fri, 05 Apr 2019 10:00:21 +1300

why has he even got a fire arms licence at all

Over 99% of licenses are approved.

One wonders if the police have the time to do the job properly.

Alfie

Fri, 05 Apr 2019 07:59:12 +1300

Here's some more background on Tipple, c/ Reed Fleming on Twitter.

Fit and proper person? Jeez... he barely qualifies as human. It's hard to imagine how Tipple could get even the most basic gun license, let alone operate the biggest gun shops in NZ.

Paul Campbell

Fri, 05 Apr 2019 00:11:17 +1300

How is it he's allowed to sell guns in NZ? he was jailed in the US for attempting to smuggle guns (into NZ)

Alfie

Thu, 04 Apr 2019 15:22:25 +1300

Tipple’s just had his say in front of the finance and expenditure committee. And there’s nothing in the Herald report to suggest he’s developed any empathy over recent days. Guilt doesn’t seem to affect some people.

Tipple admitted that since March 15, Gun City has sold “dozens, not hundreds” of weapons…

andin

Thu, 04 Apr 2019 09:47:28 +1300

There are some who just dont want to change, those private pools of loathing are just the right temperature for them. Comfort creating fear and hate is an odd neural pathway

simon g

Wed, 03 Apr 2019 22:43:16 +1300

Tomorrow is the last day to submit to the select committee, so please consider doing so if you support these law changes. Apparently the NRA-spam is flooding in.

Alfie

Wed, 03 Apr 2019 18:35:31 +1300

It’s really a tasteless threadjack to continue this discussion of the right to automobiles in this thread
+1

Meanwhile... David Tipple just doesn't know when to shut up.

"We didn't ban big white trucks after the Nice murders..."

Fuckwit!

Paul Campbell

Wed, 03 Apr 2019 16:48:58 +1300

To be fair that's something that happens at every Indian airport these days, they've reduced some of the more aggressive security stuff inside the airports, but added a front line screening at the door, I guess to keep out the bombers.

Contrast this with NZ where normally you almost never…

BenWilson

Wed, 03 Apr 2019 14:19:58 +1300

Ah, no. I think the cost is too high for the benefit.

Sure, I understand you feel that way, but perhaps you could at least admit that the benefit is at least an order or magnitude more than military style assault rifle ownership, in order to keep this thread slightly…

Richard Stewart

Wed, 03 Apr 2019 13:38:23 +1300

So you're supportive of entitled tossers who move into an area fully aware of a local activity that has existed for nearly 90 years, and then expect said activity to move away because they don't like it?

Moz

Wed, 03 Apr 2019 13:11:26 +1300

you need to bring up the enormous utility of cars to counterbalance their obvious social cost

Ah, no. I think the cost is too high for the benefit. It's *you* that needs to overstate the benefits in order to justify the costs, since you're the one pretending cars are worth…

BenWilson

Wed, 03 Apr 2019 12:49:23 +1300

People arguing for public health based restrictions need to be very selective if they want to keep cars.

Well, you need to bring up the enormous utility of cars to counterbalance their obvious social cost. I don't think anywhere near the same argument can be made for guns. Most NZers…

Moz

Wed, 03 Apr 2019 12:14:00 +1300

Free countries don’t typically feature armed po-po do they?

By that measure there are almost no free countries. You've excluded UK, Australia, Aotearoa, Sweden. I'm struggling to think of countries where the Police rarely carry firearms.

Moz

Wed, 03 Apr 2019 12:11:18 +1300

one of these things transports us from A to B, whilst the other gives its owner the ability to extinguish life on an industrial scale.

It’s cars that are used to “extinguish life on an industrial scale”. Even this year guns will kill far fewer kiwis than cars do, it’s…

Tom Semmens

Wed, 03 Apr 2019 08:27:13 +1300

Because semi-autos allow you to dice the animal as you kill it? Our laws will still allow five and seven shot magazines.

Given that there are some people who think the only acceptable weapons with which men should fight boars is a plastic spoon and a couple of hellhounds named…

Simon Armstrong

Tue, 02 Apr 2019 18:30:13 +1300

Free countries don’t typically feature armed po-po do they? What exactly are the military style weapons they see fit to flaunt in public at every opportunity?

simon g

Tue, 02 Apr 2019 16:23:04 +1300

"Well, I believe you may get your headlines, Mr. Ismay." ( Titanic )

Let's name and fame the reporter who delayed Seymour's arrival in the House simply by twirling her hair with her fingers, gazing at him dreamily and whispering "Ooh, David, tell us more ... ".

nzlemming

Tue, 02 Apr 2019 15:57:38 +1300

David Seymour has decided to “object” in Parliament, not to prevent new gun laws being passed, but to get himself a headline before they do.

[[https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/386156/david-seymour-misses-chance-to-slow-gun-legislation-debate|David Seymour spent so long telling reporters what he was going to do that he failed to show up in the Chamber in time to…

Alfie

Tue, 02 Apr 2019 15:54:36 +1300

Using a military style semiautomatic weapon to produce your own meat product is actually can actually save a tiny bit of money, if you’re not counting the bullets.

Because semi-autos allow you to dice the animal as you kill it? Our laws will still allow five and seven shot magazines.…

Alfie

Tue, 02 Apr 2019 15:41:50 +1300

No I don’t need a semiautomatic and you don’t need a car

Er... one of these things transports us from A to B, whilst the other gives its owner the ability to extinguish life on an industrial scale. That's an odd analogy, at best.

I'm still not sure what your…

BenWilson

Tue, 02 Apr 2019 13:44:30 +1300

No I don’t need a semiautomatic and you don’t need a car

I do need a car, and you still don't need a semiautomatic. My car saves me an hour every day of commuting via public transport, enables transport of whole family rapidly around on the weekend to locations that…

simon g

Tue, 02 Apr 2019 13:08:15 +1300

David Seymour has decided to "object" in Parliament, not to prevent new gun laws being passed, but to get himself a headline before they do.

If Simon Bridges had any leadership skills or political antennae at all, he would now say: "David is free to do as he wishes, but…

Paul Campbell

Tue, 02 Apr 2019 12:27:30 +1300

+1 – I also lived in the US for 20 years, the whole guns as quasi-religious deities thing there is just sad ... and dangerous – more guns in homes means more deaths (suicide, kids, accidents, domestic violence) – given that I don't see any reason why "collecting" has any…

Bart Janssen

Tue, 02 Apr 2019 11:24:20 +1300

You folks won’t see it

I lived in the US for 3 years, half of that in Texas and Arizona. I've been to dinner at people's houses where they assured us that they made up for us in average gun ownership.

Because I worked with these people and socialised with…

andin

Tue, 02 Apr 2019 07:09:04 +1300

“Here be Draggonnes”
Or senile old coots who like to think they call a spade a digging implement with which someone will be buried probably themselves under their own bullshit https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12218204

If the police are being dicks make an official complain, just saying they are makes you look dumb

Sacha

Tue, 02 Apr 2019 00:11:27 +1300

the repercussions will be longstanding and deep

Meaningful change ought to provoke some resistance. However, it will prevail this time.

Sacha

Tue, 02 Apr 2019 00:06:28 +1300

I don't need a semiautomatic and you don't need a car

I don't need a Ferrari to take the kids to school. Or a gun to make me feel like a man.

Ian Dalziel

Mon, 01 Apr 2019 23:11:24 +1300

I can’t really be arsed arguing but I feel it is important at least to stand here with a sign noting the point where we cleave into two countries
Hell, you almost had n=me there Pete – until I realised it was the April Fools Day

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsgdLWOhoJA

Ian Dalziel

Mon, 01 Apr 2019 23:04:56 +1300

Meanwhile back in Australia... The Shooter, Fishers and Farmers Party,
https://www.smh.com.au/national/no-other-party-has-taken-the-hammer-to-our-gun-laws-like-this-one-20190331-p519e6.html
I like how they position themselves in "the Dead Centre"
I suspect they don't mean Alice Springs....
(after all that's 'The Red Centre', right?)

also see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooters,_Fishers_and_Farmers_Party

They seem angry and their legacy will involve 'cross heirs'....
The AFL…

andin

Mon, 01 Apr 2019 22:43:33 +1300

this has been a major event outside of this leftwing echochamber

What the changing of gun legislation?
Enough with the dismissive rhetoric too
The thought ever crossed your mind you may be in an echo chamber?

Guns are fun and useful
Im pretty sure you are in the minority with…

Pete

Mon, 01 Apr 2019 22:26:42 +1300

Yes absolutely you are correct and I am not trying to push an agenda or drop screeds of paragraph-less stream of consciousness anti-1080 type ranting

I am trying to be the sign on the map that says "Here be Draggonnes" pointing out that this has been a major event outside…

simon g

Mon, 01 Apr 2019 21:36:18 +1300

Pete, the advantage of our current voting system is that you would only need 5% to make sure you are represented in Parliament. Possibly even less, if you can persuade one like-minded MP with an electorate to represent you (David Seymour seems keen!).

You are opposed to legislation that (so…

nzlemming

Mon, 01 Apr 2019 21:28:30 +1300

You seem intent on providing evidence that you are not a fit person to hold any sort of firearm licence,

Pete

Mon, 01 Apr 2019 21:00:08 +1300

So the draft legislation is out and this is a big turning point
Forget how I and other licensed shooters feel betrayed by our govt – I put this sole point to Jane and John voter- the police have failed in their current licensing system to keep track of where…

Ian Dalziel

Mon, 01 Apr 2019 09:30:11 +1300

I hadn’t had the salmon mouse anyway
a classic 'narrow squeak' then?
;- )

Bart Janssen

Mon, 01 Apr 2019 09:17:04 +1300

and death visits

Death did visit, and I was still the same atheist I've always been.

Besides I hadn't had the salmon mouse anyway.

Neil

Sun, 31 Mar 2019 21:09:31 +1300

He also identifies Labour’s positions on immigration and housing at the last election. I think it should be possible, in principle, to debate immigration policy settings like any others, but something happened during the campaign that impressed on me how easy it is for that debate to spill over into…

andin

Sun, 31 Mar 2019 19:12:17 +1300

haha yeah might; ))

Sacha

Sun, 31 Mar 2019 17:25:47 +1300

If some deranged arsehole was pointing a gun the words 'Please god no!' might be one of the things I would scream

Appealing to their ego like that might work, I guess.

Moz

Sun, 31 Mar 2019 15:43:50 +1300

Tamihere said: when the chips are down and death visits, everyone seizes upon faith

I kept the faith and I kept voting
Not for the iron fist but for the helping hand
For theirs is a land with a wall around it
[[https://g.co/kgs/KNr9rN|And mine is a faith in my fellow…

andin

Sun, 31 Mar 2019 09:11:22 +1300

huge dig at atheists and agnostics
I guess your mean this little gem of stupidity
'but when the chips are down and death visits, everyone seizes upon faith – everyone'.

Do the chips really need to be down for a visit from death? Jeez these so called columnists and their…

Simon Lyall

Sat, 30 Mar 2019 23:47:53 +1300

There is this article by John Tamihere which is mostly-okay and ends with:

And so, March 15, 2019 is a significant day in our nationhood story and it will empower us to stand up against intolerance, hate and the infliction of hurt solely because of colour, race or creed.

but that…

andin

Sat, 30 Mar 2019 11:55:37 +1300

Mike Hosking and all the other angry shock jocks to the logical outcome of constant ravings against the “enemy”

The Hosking lunacy and Philip Neals crap are exposed as factually wrong by Spinoff Guest writer Lisa Marriott

Hosking and ilk need to be shown up for the muck…

Russell Brown

Sat, 30 Mar 2019 11:38:46 +1300

I assume thats the one where she just repeats what some ‘Journalist’ at The Australian says, or should I say where she echoes what she’d like to say from out of the pages of a Murdoch Newspaper.

That column was an embarrassment. Just hapless.

Audrey Young’s column in the Herald…

Tom Semmens

Sat, 30 Mar 2019 10:51:26 +1300

I was wondering how it would take things to get back to normal. As it turns out, about two weeks.

it is all well and good for the Herald and it’s owners to throw their hands in the air in horror and exclaim “how did we get here????” but the reality…

Micky

Sat, 30 Mar 2019 08:51:56 +1300

Define 'conservative Muslim'. Would the Sultan of Brunei meet this definition?

John Farrell

Fri, 29 Mar 2019 11:44:12 +1300

Someone has weaponised the shooter's "manifesto"

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/vigilantes-counter-christchurch-manifesto-with-weaponized-version/

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 28 Mar 2019 15:20:58 +1300

I watched the Australian QandA show with Liberal party Vice President Teena McQueen and the Stuff article was bang on about a trainwreck
That woman is like an Aussie Sarah Palin – no idea about reality for average people and the comments at You Tube are largely supportive of her stance…

simon g

Thu, 28 Mar 2019 13:12:50 +1300

From Christchurch terrorist to Canadian "free speech" fraud, Lauren Southern: one degree of separation. Linked by his cash, linked by their work.

"Free Speech Coalition", still nothing?

Bart Janssen

Wed, 27 Mar 2019 15:05:55 +1300

+1 more

Alfie

Wed, 27 Mar 2019 09:39:37 +1300

I will fight this ban however I legally am able and will never again aid or assist anyone who has supported it

Hey Pete. I'm sure it's not you... it's those other 4.9m kiwis who have it completely wrong, eh. I assume you're not defending anyone's god-given "right" to possess…

andin

Wed, 27 Mar 2019 07:04:54 +1300

Yes thats the one. I wont link to any of that shit all they do is count numbers clicking over, its bad enough that I clicked on it and read it.

Ian Dalziel

Wed, 27 Mar 2019 06:53:02 +1300

Her lazy contribution today on Stuff is just that, lazy journalism.
I assume thats the one where she just repeats what some 'Journalist' at The Australian says, or should I say where she echoes what she'd like to say from out of the pages of a Murdoch Newspaper.
I'm starting…

andin

Wed, 27 Mar 2019 06:49:07 +1300

I am ashamed of this country

You allowed to say silly stuff like that just dont do anything silly is all we ask.

Al Jazeera has just ripped One Nation a new one
The excuses are coming thick and fast ... their just arabs..... they taped us when we were…

Sacha

Wed, 27 Mar 2019 00:04:50 +1300

I am ashamed of this country

Really? Other nations seem to be praising how we are handling this terrible situation. I do not recall any previous NZ leader being projected onto a skyscraper either.

nzlemming

Tue, 26 Mar 2019 22:45:08 +1300

Apropos of guns and gun lobbying, Al Jazeera has just ripped One Nation a new one in Australia.
https://youtu.be/QYyX7O02yOg

nzlemming

Tue, 26 Mar 2019 22:42:53 +1300

I dont know who Tracy Watkins( a search gives little to no clue as to what she is about although I noted with dread some connection with Whaleoil) is or whether she was just doing her word quota for the day.

She's Stuff's "political editor". Total brown-nose for National. Misses…

Susan Snowdon

Tue, 26 Mar 2019 22:18:31 +1300

will never again aid or assist anyone who has supported it

Gosh, that seems a bit harsh.

Ian Dalziel

Tue, 26 Mar 2019 21:22:40 +1300

You do realise all Parties voted for this ban – so will we have to have a new gun lobby party that you can bring yourself to vote for?

The Gun Lobby so successfully turned Paula Bennett's head in 2017 that she only adopted 7 out of 20 recommendatons -…

simon g

Tue, 26 Mar 2019 21:12:28 +1300

Sorry you feel that way, Pete.

Many of your previous comments (under the name) suggest you are not an unreasonable person, so I hope you can reconsider in time. Not for Labour's sake – that doesn't matter at all, because all serious parties support the ban. But for the wider…

Pete

Tue, 26 Mar 2019 20:50:34 +1300

I'm just one person now implacably opposed to ever voting Labour again since this semiauto ban but there are quite a few of us now

I will fight this ban however I legally am able and will never again aid or assist anyone who has supported it

I am ashamed…

andin

Tue, 26 Mar 2019 18:55:47 +1300

they would have to be a moron.

Well they cant misconstrue that ;-)

I should not read opinion pieces some days. I dont know who Tracy Watkins( a search gives little to no clue as to what she is about although I noted with dread some connection with Whaleoil) is…

BenWilson

Tue, 26 Mar 2019 17:09:58 +1300

Given my earlier post that I approve of the gun ban wholeheartedly, they would have to be a moron. Quite aside from the fact that the good-guy-with-gun meme is not about suppressing freedom of hate speech, it's usually about shooting someone in self defense or the defense of others. Which…

Farmer Green

Tue, 26 Mar 2019 16:55:06 +1300

Because there may be some who would misconstrue what you said as the "good- guy- with- a- gun" argument.I am sure that you and I agree that there is no place for that in this country. So it is good to make that explicit.

BenWilson

Tue, 26 Mar 2019 16:41:54 +1300

Why do you feel the need to ask that?

Edit: No, on second thoughts, I don't want to know.

Farmer Green

Tue, 26 Mar 2019 15:51:24 +1300

by all means available.

Where available=legal I assume.What I mean by that is , up to , but not including, taking the law into your own hands.

BenWilson

Tue, 26 Mar 2019 13:22:21 +1300

There are some views I will never have synthesis with, and will shut them down everywhere I encounter them by all means available. The free speech I saw in the gunman's video as I tried as fast as I could to find YouTube's report mechanism is something no one needs…

Farmer Green

Tue, 26 Mar 2019 10:02:00 +1300

I applaud your final sentence. A corollary might be that there is no synthesis to be had when the explicit aim of one view is the proscription of the other.

Sacha

Mon, 25 Mar 2019 20:13:09 +1300

Their free speech is gone forever.

If anybody had any doubt about the priorities of the so-called "Free Speech Coalition", they can have none now.

Yes, and any of their fellow travellers. It's clear whose 'rights' they are all fighting so hard for. There is no 'debate' to be had…

Craig Young

Mon, 25 Mar 2019 17:00:18 +1300

For those who were concerned that Christchurch was being singled out unfairly for having unduly high numbers of racist knuckledraggers, here's an interesting Newsroom piece by Steve Deane dealing with his experience of neofascist skinheads in Petone as a child and adolescent...: https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/03/25/504416/growing-up-with-skinheads

andin

Mon, 25 Mar 2019 16:53:52 +1300

The FSC has sent out multiple tweets condemning the decision, along with multiple retweets

I dont go out of my way to look for that shit but still, I see a lot of white opinion, supremacist and others, trying to walk dialogue back from what is one of the obvious…

simon g

Mon, 25 Mar 2019 15:28:10 +1300

From Russell's original post:

I think the members of the Free Speech Coalition need to seriously examine what they became part of after they assembled to defend the “rights” of the nakedly racist Stefan Molyneux and Lauren Southern last year. Their pathetic rally in Aotea Square (which was promoted in…

BenWilson

Mon, 25 Mar 2019 07:50:53 +1300

If only it were possible to slap an egg on someone's head over the internet.

No, Dennis, the sensible approach is not to punish the victims and expect the violent white supremacism to stop if only ALL OF ISLAM makes a change to a textual interpretation.

andin

Sun, 24 Mar 2019 21:10:36 +1300

Sacha

Sun, 24 Mar 2019 20:14:47 +1300

Thank you

Ian Dalziel

Sun, 24 Mar 2019 20:12:04 +1300

So many words but what are you really saying?

I see Russell has found a solution, too

Russell Brown

Sun, 24 Mar 2019 20:02:49 +1300

Jeez dude, read the room.

Quite. There’s an element of basic human decency in the wake of an atrocity that seems to have escaped Dennis. Accordingly, he can fuck off.

Sacha

Sun, 24 Mar 2019 19:57:00 +1300

Jeez dude, read the room.

Dennis Frank

Sun, 24 Mar 2019 19:40:40 +1300

I'd prefer you to be part of the solution, Russell. It may seem as if some local leaders condemning islam-produced massacres is sufficient, but what of those who don't? True, islam lacks an overall moral authority in person on the global stage, because it defers to that of the prophet…

nzlemming

Sun, 24 Mar 2019 17:38:42 +1300

FFS Dennis, do you have to turn this blog into a repository for your idle reckons, just because you're bored on a Sunday?

I just skip over any posts from either of them. Saves my blood pressure.

Ian Dalziel

Sun, 24 Mar 2019 17:11:18 +1300

I cannot see how any sane person in the west would tolerate islam when they know the followers have been instructed to kill them by the top religious authority in Islam.
And then we have Pompeo and Pence – Pompeo's latest theocratic idiocy
**Pompeo says God may have sent Trump…

Russell Brown

Sun, 24 Mar 2019 16:33:15 +1300

Well duh! What would expect the a leading member of extremist and terrorist group Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula to say?

Quite.

Kumara Republic

Sun, 24 Mar 2019 16:26:26 +1300

Im thinking back wondering when the race to the bottom kicked off. Sometime round the early to mid 80's I guessing. There are just some people in the media who need to be put out of a job Garner, Plunket and Hosking are at the top of the list AFAIC.…

Russell Brown

Sun, 24 Mar 2019 16:03:10 +1300

Ask yourself: did they issue a condemnation of those who did the Charlie Hebdo massacre? I didn’t notice any such. If there was none, why let them off the moral hook?

The Federation of Islamic Associations of New Zealand and various local leaders strongly and explicitly condemned the Charlie Hebdo…

Dennis Frank

Sun, 24 Mar 2019 14:46:41 +1300

Straw men aside, an interesting new angle has emerged: mimetic theory, applied as masking to manipulate the media: "journalists often need to stop and talk about what does and doesn’t matter, in order to keep from perpetuating even more harm. But in an age where ironic memetic rhetoric frequently distorts…

andin

Sun, 24 Mar 2019 14:44:02 +1300

We all got indoctrinated with the hero archetype as kids…
And we all out grew them... well most of us.

Paul Campbell

Sun, 24 Mar 2019 14:31:55 +1300

Sigh, just like Judaism, there is no Muslim pope – they have a tradition of scholarly treatments of their religious books, Rabbis argue about the Talmud, Imams argue about the Quran – they don't all agree – there are no absolute religious authorities in the sense that the Pope is.…

simon g

Sun, 24 Mar 2019 13:43:31 +1300

FFS Dennis, do you have to turn this blog into a repository for your idle reckons, just because you're bored on a Sunday? Can't you get a hobby or something? You have a responsibility to consider the consequences of what you say in a public forum. Can't you just get…

Dennis Frank

Sun, 24 Mar 2019 13:29:17 +1300

Some of those cited did seem to be religious authorities (rather than scholars or political leaders) but I notice none address the key point: the instruction in the Koran from the prophet to his followers that they must kill unbelievers.

I cannot see how any sane person in the west…

Ian Dalziel

Sun, 24 Mar 2019 12:44:33 +1300

Jesus wept!
Just exposing their lack of credibility, Ian, as presumably Murdoch is too (although I don’t read his stuff).
So you “don’t read his stuff” but presume to know the content – that must help your world view immensely
Ask yourself: did they issue a condemnation of those who…

Dennis Frank

Sun, 24 Mar 2019 12:03:08 +1300

I'll just add a bit: "some Muslims take the view that the satire of Islam, of religious representatives, and above all of Islamic prophets is blasphemy in Islam punishable by death." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Hebdo_shooting

Is concerted criticism of islam more of a threat to it than random satire? Seems obviously so. And…

Dennis Frank

Sun, 24 Mar 2019 11:35:38 +1300

Just exposing their lack of credibility, Ian, as presumably Murdoch is too (although I don't read his stuff). I agree that islam would not be a problem if its authorities renounced violence and told the world they had decided to do peaceful co-existence instead. That would be wonderful.

So we…

Ian Dalziel

Sun, 24 Mar 2019 11:22:16 +1300

The baffling thing is why the Islamic authorities haven’t issued a fatwa against Murdoch.
Dennis that is not helping!
Perhaps it is in jest (tone is often difficult to assess on the web), but it just reamplifies negative stereotypes...

Dennis Frank

Sun, 24 Mar 2019 11:13:23 +1300

The baffling thing is why the Islamic authorities haven't issued a fatwa against Murdoch. Poor old Salman Rushdie got one issued against him, merely for writing the Satanic Verses. How many people actually read it? A miniscule amount!

Compared to the zillions who read Murdoch media and those 2891 anti-islam…

Ian Dalziel

Sun, 24 Mar 2019 10:54:58 +1300

Speaking of ’generating outrage’
Worth noting this Australian report that there were 2,891 Murdoch Media Stories Trashing Islam In A Single Year, Study Reveals

andin

Sat, 23 Mar 2019 18:10:41 +1300

Generating outrage

Stoking a dying fire of narrow mindedness with the odd bit of voyeurism and scaremongering thrown in. No wonder people are looking elsewhere.
Hell of a basis for an information/entertainment service too!
If they keep it up they'll put themselves out of a job.

nzlemming

Sat, 23 Mar 2019 17:16:32 +1300

TVNZ and RNZ boards are littered with people who adhere to rotten ideologies and questionable ethics from what I hear.

I'm not sure that ideology plays that much of a part. They're solely interested in money, particularly quarterly returns, and they are seeing their traditional markets dissipate as people find…

andin

Sat, 23 Mar 2019 16:35:33 +1300

nzlemming

Sat, 23 Mar 2019 15:45:22 +1300

Duncan Garner lifts his head above the parapet to
intone his disapproval

Fuck him. "No-one predicted that we would eyeball evil and have our unwanted date with hate last Friday afternoon."

Really? It's precisely what gun reform advocates have been saying for years. It's been prophesied in report…

Ian Dalziel

Sat, 23 Mar 2019 15:13:47 +1300

Duncan Garner lifts his head above the parapet to
intone his disapproval
I look forward to his apology to Taika Waititi and his clawing back some of his earlier diatribes about immigrants
such as this one – which is still available and proudly wears the link to the [[http://www.mediacouncil.org.nz/rulings/eliza-prestidge-oldfield-against-the-dominion-post-and-stuff|upheld…

Ian Dalziel

Sat, 23 Mar 2019 13:19:21 +1300

Go Stuff..
They have also made the first steps in taking some of the heat out of their now less common Comments Sections – by removing the 'Up / Down Thumbs'.

andin

Sat, 23 Mar 2019 11:55:25 +1300

Philip Matthews,

and Will Harvie presents Karl Popper’s views

Go Stuff..
Saw a well researched article on Stuff about the crusades too.

Farmer Green

Sat, 23 Mar 2019 10:16:10 +1300

Ethology :-)

Sacha

Sat, 23 Mar 2019 08:37:10 +1300

heh. probably guest lectured.
(not that there's anything wrong with that)

Ian Dalziel

Sat, 23 Mar 2019 08:27:05 +1300

...and majored in sophistry?

Sacha

Sat, 23 Mar 2019 08:25:30 +1300

philosophy

Ian Dalziel

Sat, 23 Mar 2019 07:42:29 +1300

Philip Matthews, as always, has an intelligent, well put together overview and response.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/111387889/radical-losers-and-lone-wolves-what-drives-the-altright

and Will Harvie presents Karl Popper's views as well.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/111390530/dont-tolerate-the-intolerant-wrote-philosopher-karl-popper-during-his-stay-in-nz

Paul Campbell

Fri, 22 Mar 2019 22:58:48 +1300

You can still poke holes in paper, just as easily done with a bolt action rifle

Pete

Fri, 22 Mar 2019 22:46:46 +1300

Well I for one will never shoot anybody and own several semiautos

I used to enjoy my sport but now I'm treated like a criminal and lost thousands of dollars worth of legally purchased gear just because some fuckstick got around the poorly drawn laws and now we have a…

andin

Fri, 22 Mar 2019 17:31:01 +1300

Such an incredibly one eyed reading of history, pathetic swill. What did he get a degree in? It certainly wasnt history, maybe propaganda!

Ian Dalziel

Fri, 22 Mar 2019 16:52:33 +1300

I note that Matthew Hooton has had to swallow his callow words on PM Jacinda Ardern – he has previously said things like:
Like John Key on steroids, Ardern is well advised to keep well away from anything difficult and, for the next 18 months, just smile and wave.
from…

Craig Young

Fri, 22 Mar 2019 16:09:07 +1300

The US LGBT Advocate publication applauded New Zealand's prompt military style semi-automatic weapon ban, and provided a poignant parallel. New Zealand cared enough to demand that after the coldblooded brutal slaughter of fifty Muslims at the two mosques, and the government acted promptly to remedy the situation. However, Equality Florida's…

Paul Campbell

Fri, 22 Mar 2019 14:13:07 +1300

ewww – that Eastwood guy is a horrible piece of shit, owns his own rabbit-hole and it's really deep, he deserves watching closely, you just know he's only going to get worse and cross the line

Walter Nicholls

Fri, 22 Mar 2019 13:30:40 +1300

The 'elite private school' that eventually bowed to pressure to allow pupils to wear the hijab for one day only
They backtracked this morning (as in, not just one day any more)

I ran that news story past my daughter when she got home yesterday. Without being told, she guessed…

andin

Fri, 22 Mar 2019 12:52:52 +1300

So your just showing off your philosophical/linguistic skills are you? I think we are all well aware of your point. Dont you have some cows to attend to or something.

BenWilson

Fri, 22 Mar 2019 12:49:56 +1300

It wasn't all you were saying. Please read what you are saying before you post and consider what a whole lot of people who read it will be feeling right now. Put yourself in their shoes for a minute.

Farmer Green

Fri, 22 Mar 2019 12:42:51 +1300

Ben all I am saying is that the weapon itself is terror,regardless of how it is brought about.

BenWilson

Fri, 22 Mar 2019 12:12:09 +1300

I am saying that NZers are no safer as a result of law changes, than they were last Friday, either from mass murders or terrorist psy-ops.

I call bullshit on that, and I think the way to find out is to try it. And then, if we find evil people…

andin

Fri, 22 Mar 2019 11:00:16 +1300

I didnt say they were your friends. Psy-ops? So mind games of some sort and they have "multiple options"? What the fuck does that mean?
And Im being encouraged to believe?
Im started to get a bit fucked off with all this bullshit. If you know of someone, anyone who…

simon g

Fri, 22 Mar 2019 10:54:20 +1300

FG, I tried being polite to you upthread, and that didn't work so ... just stop being a dick. Stop treating this blog like your own personal waffle house.

Nobody will believe it's "all sorted". But one method of mass murder will be severely restricted. The method that can attract…

Farmer Green

Fri, 22 Mar 2019 10:25:33 +1300

I accept that there are at least five people committed to carrying out further "events", but they are not my friends.
Their weapon of choice for their psy-ops is terror. They have multiple options.
I think that you are being encouraged to believe that "it's all sorted".
I doubt that.

Sacha

Fri, 22 Mar 2019 10:15:05 +1300

That was not my point. Most mass murderers use bombs.

However please do not underestimate the symbolic value of outlawing *all* the weapons used only a week ago. You and I are not really the main audience for that response. Or this conversation in general.

andin

Fri, 22 Mar 2019 10:08:00 +1300

So its all in your imagination then, you dont know of at least 5 people conspiring together to carry out such an atrocity, but you will report it if you do. Right?
At least with the law change the threat of a lone nut has been drastically reduced now it…

Farmer Green

Fri, 22 Mar 2019 09:51:25 +1300

I was just stating what is glaringly obvious. Terrorist "events" don't require semi-automatic guns with more than five shots.

I think you probably knew that.
I am saying that NZers are no safer as a result of law changes, than they were last Friday, either from mass murders or terrorist…

Ian Dalziel

Fri, 22 Mar 2019 09:11:45 +1300

What is it with Epsom?
– The 'elite private school' that eventually bowed to pressure to allow pupils to wear the hijab for one day only and David Seymour!

Interesting to note the traditional NZ gangs coming together and reaching out vs faux-bishop Tamaki and his black shirts preaching hate…

andin

Fri, 22 Mar 2019 08:58:01 +1300

you do a little research.

NO How about you stop being all 'Iknowstuffyoudont' mysterious prophetic-like, and just tell us what it is. And let us make up our own minds.
Its time to stop the childish playing of mind games.

Farmer Green

Fri, 22 Mar 2019 08:45:06 +1300

" how fast we have been able to change our gun laws"

.If you are thinking that there has been a change in our gun laws that would protect us from all terrorist "productions " in the future, then I can only suggest that you do a little research.

andin

Thu, 21 Mar 2019 23:42:50 +1300

sacred in the USA

The only thing sacred in that country at present, it would seem to me, is the right to be as big of an arsehole as you want to be. I’d really hate to see that imported here.

And in the 'Could you just shut up please'…

Sacha

Thu, 21 Mar 2019 22:50:50 +1300

seeing Americans online trying to swamp Twitter threads by claiming “our gun rights”, forgetting to pretend they’re totes Kiwi
The NRA can buy a campaign here on short notice, just not very well it seems.

Hilton Wells

Thu, 21 Mar 2019 22:31:01 +1300

Nothing I wrote referred to my being hurt at all Russell.

My comments were clearly focused on your deflection from your poor choice of words by responding with a cheap bizarre assumption re: my empathy, or lack thereof.
Surprise, surprise that you respond with more deflection rather than respond to…

simon g

Thu, 21 Mar 2019 20:21:32 +1300

Superb effort. Seeing Americans online just gobsmacked at how fast we have been able to change our gun laws.

And seeing Americans online trying to swamp Twitter threads by claiming “our gun rights”, forgetting to pretend they’re totes Kiwi dudes living in Hamilton or wherever.

Apparently the 2nd amendment is…

Sacha

Thu, 21 Mar 2019 18:38:16 +1300

Superb effort. Seeing Americans online just gobsmacked at how fast we have been able to change our gun laws.

Craig Young

Thu, 21 Mar 2019 16:52:16 +1300

I also shudder to think what's on this website. I don't really want to look, given I'm about to have tea:

http://www.uncensored.co.nz

Craig Young

Thu, 21 Mar 2019 16:50:13 +1300

Ah, there lies a tale. I've been keeping a close eye on the New Cons over the last year or so. Their Deputy Leader Eliot Ikilei has been barracking loudly for alt right activists like Lauren Southern and Stefan Molyneux under the colours of 'free speech" and Leader Leighton Baker…

Dennis Frank

Thu, 21 Mar 2019 16:47:04 +1300

The coalition deserves a rating of ten out of ten! The G-G signed an order-in-council at 3pm, banning semi-automatic guns & conversion accessories. Legislation will follow early next month. Our top cop then announced the procedure gun-owners must now implement to become law-abiding.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/AK1903/S00640/police-announce-process-to-hand-over-reclassified-mssas.htm

Sacha

Thu, 21 Mar 2019 16:26:33 +1300

If the media want to hear from Farrar, Brash, Slater and their ilk, then invite them on to be interviewed and challenged for what they do, not as wise counsel to be respectfully consulted.

That requires a fundamental culture change across all our media organisations to make their behaviour match…

nzlemming

Thu, 21 Mar 2019 15:37:55 +1300

I have just stumbled upon a homegeown Facebook cesspit – run by one Vinny Eastwood

Eastwood is another scumbag. Report him here

andin

Thu, 21 Mar 2019 13:21:20 +1300

It all comes back to self perception. Thats where distorted world views live unchallenged.

simon g

Thu, 21 Mar 2019 13:18:59 +1300

On a more positive note, here are some of the events planned for today and tomorrow.

See you in the Auckland Domain on Friday (and/or Ponsonby Mosque if I can make it).

Neil

Thu, 21 Mar 2019 13:08:59 +1300

Yes our societies were starting to break apart, but we were all just expected to smile and carry on take on heavier workloads, less pay, increasing and changing populations and neglected yet more expensive social institutions. A recipe for disaster.

Although people like Brevik and the Christchurch terrorist didn’t have…

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 21 Mar 2019 13:03:51 +1300

I have just stumbled upon a homegeown Facebook cesspit – run by one Vinny Eastwood – How does one get this in front of the police – he admits to watching, downloading and sharing the mosque attack video – then says he deleted it only because he wouldn't do well…

simon g

Thu, 21 Mar 2019 12:58:43 +1300

I find that I'm getting increasingly angry at this sudden discovery of far-right bigotry on blogs, social media etc. Gosh, who knew?

Anybody who f***ing wanted to know, that's who.

Sack real estate agents if it makes you feel cleansed, but let's not pretend we are changing anything, if there…

Russell Brown

Thu, 21 Mar 2019 12:44:12 +1300

Your assumption re: my empathy for those affected in your reply Russell is actually a great exemplar of you lacking empathy, by inexplicably levelling this at me for questioning you (and you alone) on your comments.

Hard to see how you felt like it was ok to assume I had…

Russell Brown

Thu, 21 Mar 2019 12:40:05 +1300

That “vile, anti-Islamic rants” were posted on Whale Oil doesn’t surprise me. The fact that some of them came from a “senior doctor” does.

I recall the guy from right-wing blog comments years ago. He seemed one of the more rational ones at the time.

Sacha

Thu, 21 Mar 2019 11:43:02 +1300

shutting them down

Nobody is entitled to a megaphone. Society negotiates access.

Dennis Frank

Thu, 21 Mar 2019 11:41:42 +1300

I empathise totally – would've done the same in your shoes. Spent my whole life conscience-driven, adopting moral stands contrary to social convention, usually as a minority of one. That why I nowadays have to criticise leftists who use hate speech while criticising rightists who do the same...

andin

Thu, 21 Mar 2019 11:40:00 +1300

So why do a small number of men choose one set of angry messages from a small group of people and are immune to everything else?

I dont want to diminish anybody but the reasons why are all very obvious if you take a critical look at the direction our…

Simon Armstrong

Thu, 21 Mar 2019 11:36:13 +1300

IMHO it is a very secular reaction to hate on racists. Compassion and forgiveness is the order of the day in typical Christian and Muslim households. Calling them out is one thing, shutting them down seems like quite the opposite. Hate fueled slurs such as say dummkopf does not make…

Emma Hart

Thu, 21 Mar 2019 11:11:21 +1300

The men responsible for these acts of terror weren’t just exposed on the internet to hateful like minds they were also exposed – like all of us – to a far greater amount of messages of liberal tolerance.

So, I don’t really know the answer to this, but I’ve been…

Alfie

Thu, 21 Mar 2019 10:43:54 +1300

The Ray White franchise in Blockhouse Bay has just sacked husband and wife agents Paul and Kathryn Davie after anti-muslim Facebook posts from the pair were flagged by a member of the public.

Interestingly, Paul Davie stood as a candidate for the Conservative Party in New Lynn last election.

Alfie

Thu, 21 Mar 2019 10:22:48 +1300

That "vile, anti-Islamic rants" were posted on Whale Oil doesn't surprise me. The fact that some of them came from a "senior doctor" does.

Doctor stood down after anti-Muslim comments posted

Neil

Thu, 21 Mar 2019 10:06:55 +1300

Mulling over the free speech issue I’m not very clear about how our concepts of influence work.

The men responsible for these acts of terror weren’t just exposed on the internet to hateful like minds they were also exposed – like all of us – to a far greater amount…

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 21 Mar 2019 08:45:51 +1300

I can post some photo essays here,
I'd be interested, (maybe on a Capture thread might be better though) Gujarat sounds like a fascinating and ancient place – I believe there are Indus Valley / Harappan civilisation sites there and you'd be interested in the boatbuilding right on the shore…

Sacha

Thu, 21 Mar 2019 08:17:44 +1300

a future for your (ethnic) children

White, always white.

linger

Thu, 21 Mar 2019 08:04:05 +1300

Faced with something unimaginably horrific and outside our immediate control, it's a very human response to attempt to control something, ANYTHING, in our surroundings, regardless of its level of impact or relevance. Hence we reliably get arguments about names, tone policing, nitpicking over intended/received meanings of phrases. I'm not saying…

andin

Thu, 21 Mar 2019 05:37:18 +1300

It does seem racist, but proponents would argue there’s nothing wrong with valuing a future for your (ethnic) children
No Buts about it, its racist, supremacist, bigoted, elitist. And then theres the education bribery fiasco in the US, if you wonder what lengths parents will go to.

Whats happening in…

Hilton Wells

Thu, 21 Mar 2019 00:43:09 +1300

My response was referring to your choice of language Russell. I have not written any of the offensive posts on social media that seemingly contributed to you writing ‘Christchurch was attacked’, so I had no idea how those words influenced what you wrote in the comments I responded to.

I…

Alfie

Wed, 20 Mar 2019 22:44:50 +1300

Where did the money come from?

Media reports so far suggest an inheritance from his father and possibly a minor windfall with some oddball cyber-currency.

Katita

Wed, 20 Mar 2019 22:35:09 +1300

So what I've been thinking...
The gunman (*Voldemort) spent (according to some estimates) $50k on weapons and ammo. He lived in a paid-up flat. He had a paid in advance gym membership. He had travelled O/S extensively and for extended periods. He didn't seem to have a job.
Where did…

Rob S

Wed, 20 Mar 2019 21:50:06 +1300

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/20/facebook-google-twitter-theyd-still-be-dreadful-without-the-fascists

No care and no responsibility from our modern digital masters, you know the ones, they don't like paying taxes or cleaning up their mess.

I think we're on the way to dystopia and not sunlit uplands unless we start getting a handle on some big issues that our 'leaders'…

Dennis Frank

Wed, 20 Mar 2019 20:42:45 +1300

Good point – I was assuming they are both part of the same group but ain't necessarily so. Paul Buchanan originally referred to a cell of ten as the standard modus operandi, and the media were theorising a connection with the Chch white supremacists, but no evidence has emerged since…

Alfie

Wed, 20 Mar 2019 20:33:28 +1300

To be clear, the guy using the 14/88 symbology discussed above is the ChCh insulation man who was arrested later... not the shooter.

Dennis Frank

Wed, 20 Mar 2019 20:29:24 +1300

Gosh, how arcane. Using 14 to symbolise a statement of principle is interesting, and attaching the historical code is kinda like tipping one's hat to the prophet.

It does seem racist, but proponents would argue there's nothing wrong with valuing a future for your (ethnic) children, and prioritising security action…

Alfie

Wed, 20 Mar 2019 20:09:55 +1300

"14.88 is a hate symbol popular with white extremists", but no explanation why.

It's not something I'd come across either, but apparently every nazi will recognise the symbolism. The Anti-Defamation League has a concise answer.

1488 is a combination of two popular white supremacist numeric symbols. The first symbol is…

Ian Dalziel

Wed, 20 Mar 2019 20:04:50 +1300

“14.88 is a hate symbol popular with white extremists”, but no explanation why.

As I understand 88 means HH (8th letter) which means Heil Hit...etc
dunno about the '14'

I always thought it telling & apt (and wondered if it was deliberate) that Fox TV news is on channel 88 in…

Sacha

Wed, 20 Mar 2019 19:47:13 +1300

Mental Health Foundation sets things straight.

"Shooting people is not a symptom of mental illness. White supremacy is not a mental illness," it said in a statement.
...
While it understood there was comfort in believing the shooter was an outlier, or "different to us", the foundation statement added it…

andin

Wed, 20 Mar 2019 18:03:35 +1300

Phew! Glad all this symbolism is now being exposed, those people had really disappeared into a rabbit warren of hate!! Im just dismayed. It needs exposing so we can all be on our guard.
Im not linking to it Jim Jefferies( he is not a bigot) an Oz Comic now…

Dennis Frank

Wed, 20 Mar 2019 17:21:48 +1300

Nazis are still a thing, then. "14.88 is a hate symbol popular with white extremists", but no explanation why. Devil is probably in the details...

"The company's website www.BIIG.co.nz, is an acronym for the company's full name Beneficial Insulation Installs Guaranteed. BIIg was the name of a barracks at Auschwitz…

Ian Dalziel

Wed, 20 Mar 2019 17:02:22 +1300

Also a link there to this similar prosecution:
and this guy who already has form...
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/111425937/man-charged-with-sharing-live-stream-of-christchurch-mosque-massacre

also see:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/111410111/nazithemed-company-owner-charged-with-possessing-objectionable-material

Dennis Frank

Wed, 20 Mar 2019 16:57:38 +1300

That's an excellent design. I agree it sketches mass psychology well. Not all of it of course, but it has to be selective to fulfill the agenda of the designer.

I think it captures a considerable portion of centrists: many of those who prefer to be apolitical, who lack a…

Russell Brown

Wed, 20 Mar 2019 16:40:10 +1300

Let’s not be defensive about it, Christchurch does not ‘have these issues to itself’, I agree, but that sounds a bit like what-aboutism, rather than addressing how it is in Christchurch.

No, it is not. It’s saying we all have some shit to attend to.

Also, clearly it was not…

Alfie

Wed, 20 Mar 2019 16:36:00 +1300

Also a link there to this similar prosecution...

Posting "target acquired" over a photo of the mosque in advance of the shooting suggests that case may be more sinister. I believe that person is still in custody.

Sacha

Wed, 20 Mar 2019 16:19:51 +1300

via twitter

Dennis Frank

Wed, 20 Mar 2019 15:34:54 +1300

Also a link there to this similar prosecution: https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/111334495/christchurch-man-arrested-for-enticing-racial-or-ethnic-hate

If these and any similar copycat prosecutions succeed, that will establish case-law precedent – based on the actual evidence specified. That will provide a basis for describing hate speech accurately.

Alfie

Wed, 20 Mar 2019 14:34:08 +1300

Following an offensive Facebook post about the mosque shootings a 28 year old Masterton woman has been charged with inciting racial disharmony. Good.

One of the downsides of living in a tolerant society has been a reluctant tolerance of the racists openly living/posting/broadcasting in our midst. I truly hope that…

Farmer Green

Wed, 20 Mar 2019 13:19:13 +1300

I see now that you had already made the point, somewhat more succinctly :-)
'On ya.

Dennis Frank

Wed, 20 Mar 2019 13:14:58 +1300

Well okay, but I don't see the point of having a law if everyone ignores it. Surely parliament passed the damn thing so it would be used? Or was it intended as an exercise in moral grand-standing? I agree the pc-brigade would likely be satisfied with a sham, but laws…

Farmer Green

Wed, 20 Mar 2019 13:04:45 +1300

I consider it plausible that mentally unstable people can be triggered by hate speech. Tell me I have nothing to fear, that they will realise it was not serious( if that is the case). Just jokes right?
“Life- long incarceration is too good for climate deniers”
It isn’t funny.
I…

Farmer Green

Wed, 20 Mar 2019 12:59:12 +1300

It is possible that your " whiners and moaners" do not wish to enlarge the target to make it more identifiable. Then there is the legal fees question.
But the nutter who is triggered cares nought for these distinctions.

Dennis Frank

Wed, 20 Mar 2019 12:47:02 +1300

Spending time discussing the merit of particular examples of hate speech is only worthwhile if the intent is to reach consensus. That requires reciprocity.

My point is that the current law has marginal relevance due to lack of implementation. Whining and moaning about hate speech on political blogs almost always…

Farmer Green

Wed, 20 Mar 2019 12:46:18 +1300

Almost anything can be weaponised. We all have access.

Sacha

Wed, 20 Mar 2019 12:43:21 +1300

*Plausible* threat. Coming from a person/group with access to power and weapons.

Farmer Green

Wed, 20 Mar 2019 12:38:31 +1300

Violent – Intended to intimidate/ silence/produce conformity by inducing fear.
Some violence is O.K.?
How do the mentally – challenged know which is the O.K. form?

Farmer Green

Wed, 20 Mar 2019 12:36:51 +1300

Perhaps you have never heard of The Lance Wiggs Invective Series.
Perhaps Lance is not left- leaning. But interesting as an example of the type of exhortation to violence that has previously been deemed acceptable if not enthusiastically approved. In the wrong minds this rhetoric , if that is all…

Sacha

Wed, 20 Mar 2019 12:35:43 +1300

Depends what you mean by 'violent'.

Farmer Green

Wed, 20 Mar 2019 12:18:27 +1300

I suggest that those who might copy cat the suggested actions do not make such distinctions.Are you suggesting that violent repression of some views is O.K.? Or that inciting violence against those you disagree with is fine.? Is that not one of the things that we need to change?

Farmer Green

Wed, 20 Mar 2019 12:14:50 +1300

Simon, the edit has timed out. I don’t mind if you flag that comment for deletion by mods.
Just for the record I took the threats at face value, because others might do so too, and feel empowered to carry them out.

Sacha

Wed, 20 Mar 2019 12:12:51 +1300

all violent threats to enforce silence are equally unacceptable

Ah, the level paying field fallacy.

Sacha

Wed, 20 Mar 2019 12:10:42 +1300

leftist blogs contribute to the toxicity due to commentators using hate speech

Naturally you have some examples of this leftist hate speech to offer us.

Farmer Green

Wed, 20 Mar 2019 11:53:51 +1300

Of course I will if you could explain a bit.
I am unclear why you think the comparison is inappropriate.
I assume we agree that all violent threats to enforce silence are equally unacceptable because of the risk of misinterpretation by the challenged amongst us. The current censorship and self-…

simon g

Wed, 20 Mar 2019 11:49:32 +1300

FG, I don't want to get into a slanging match on this thread, on this subject, at this time. So I would respectfully ask you to think about the comparison that you have made in that comment, reconsider its merit, and edit accordingly. Thanks.

Farmer Green

Wed, 20 Mar 2019 11:33:51 +1300

I rather think that it is " peaceful co- existence" that is being targeted by those who seek to divide and rule.

Hilton Wells

Wed, 20 Mar 2019 10:22:02 +1300

'But I saw too many people on social media blaming Christchurch and apparently forgetting in their rage that it was Christchurch that was attacked'

In response to your post above,
I also grew up in Christchurch, still have family there and know it well.

A few quick points, your friend's…

Dennis Frank

Wed, 20 Mar 2019 09:47:11 +1300

Acceptable proof of a causal relation is established by example. I suspect the reason our hate speech law has not yet been tested in court is because nobody has yet discovered an example suitable for prosecution.

In that respect my opinion is typical of everyone else’s. I await a valid…