Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: The GCSB Bill: We at least have to try

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  • Matthew Poole, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    and actually *want* the government to spy on freaks, geeks and wierdos

    The retort I conjured up for that lot is "Imagine that Winston is PM and Hone is the Minister of Police. How do you like them sweeping surveillance apples?"

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    I do think there is a largish group in NZ who buy into the bullshit and actually *want* the government to spy on freaks, geeks and wierdos.

    Setting aside the issue of freaks geeks wierdos and other Green party voters ...

    I do believe there is a role for an agency that uses technology to get information in order to protect the interests of the people of New Zealand. BUT that agency should be regulated and undergo strict oversight. It should have limitations placed on its powers simply because those powers allow it to breach all sorts of rights that we kind of want to have.

    What really worries me is that with such broad powers the oversight is left pretty much solely in the hands of the PM ... who is elected in a popularity contest! We've had good PMs and had bad ones. Leaving so much power under the oversight of a potentially bad (yet popular) PM is just plain stupid.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4460 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Chris Waugh,

    therefore presumably have access to info useful to NZDF that NZDF doesn’t necessarily have the ability to intercept itself.

    Defence Signals division might disagree with you there ;-) The inclusion of NZDF in the bill looks like covering all the bases to me.

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2935 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming,

    Some very interesting dot-connecting by Frank Macskasy

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2935 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    Key is the fear...
    The scary thing is there will be people out there who will think the prime minister acquitted himself well on Campbell Live tonight...
    What a cold fish, and such dead eyes - I think he blinked once - as he trotted out all the usual platitudes and talking points, almost as if he believed them himself....

    I'd like to know when the 88 cases of 'illegal spying on New Zealanders' over ten years really happened, he was trying to sell the idea of 9 per year, when I suspect there was probably quite a recent spike starting round the Ureweras incidents, rather than an even spread...

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7950 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to nzlemming,

    Some very interesting dot-connecting by Frank Macskasy

    Time for an Internet Blackout v2.0, methinks?

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5441 posts Report Reply

  • Katita,

    I've just watched John Key's appearance on Campbell Live tonight and am frankly gobsmacked. Apparently the GCSB is just like having Norton Anti-virus installed on my PC (for free). There's no correlation between the passing of this bill and our recent warm reception in Washington, nor any linkage to the activities of NSA/ Prism and the like. In fact the GCSB only do 'legal things' and therefore everything they do is 'legal'. It's fairly difficult to unpack this cynical and kafkaesque claptrap without my head spinning round. John Key's levels of condecension for the voting public is breathtaking. He obviously think we have all been lobotomised.
    I clearly need to stop thinking about this and ... I dunno, go fishing perhaps?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 67 posts Report Reply

  • "chris", in reply to Katita,

    Hmm, Norton Antivirus, rather apt

    The main reason of this controversy is the users of Norton is wondering to trust a file name “PIFTS.exe” which was prompted by Norton firewall as it tries to access the internet. According to the internet, “PIFTS.exe” is logging all of their users activities and sending it to their server or in laymen term spying and collecting data without permission.

    location, location, locat… • Since Dec 2010 • 250 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    Attachment

    I think what JK was trying to say on Campbell was. “They can just record the meta data and store it forever , you know, like the file number or something, and we can only use it in court if we get a warrant. We cant stop the machines looking for patterns and telling us things we are interested in, its quite legal, well it will be when we ram this bill trough.”
    But he didn’t want to bore us with such stuff. We are more interested in Red Herrings.

    eta. Plus the fact he knows nothing about networks, communication protocols or computers.
    Norton Antivirus my arse.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Ross Mason,

    Hmmm.. Key says the 88 cases the GCSB did under the "old law" was on nine people. Only nine????? Hmmm...seems an awful lot of people following the few.

    The Kitteridge report says this on page 6:

    "All relevant instances of assistance (concerning 88 individuals in total), dating between 1 April 2003 and 26 September 2012, have been identified and a report has been provided to the Minister Responsible for the GCSB, in parallel with this report, so
    that he can determine the appropriate action to be taken."

    Interesting.

    Upper Hutt • Since Jun 2007 • 1590 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to nzlemming,

    Someone has to keep an eye on that pesky Jon Stephenson fellow.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic,

    Nothing to hide, nothing to fear? Pass me a Tui Billboard.

    NY Times: How Laura Poitras Helped Snowden Spill His Secrets

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5441 posts Report Reply

  • Ross Mason,

    DeepRed's link has this video

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/23/opinion/the-national-security-agencys-domestic-spying-program.html

    Is this what happens when agencies begin to spy on their citizens?

    No thanks.

    Upper Hutt • Since Jun 2007 • 1590 posts Report Reply

  • Gary Young, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    The scary thing is there will be people out there who will think the prime minister acquitted himself well on Campbell Live tonight...

    Audrey Young in this morning's Herald certainly thinks so.

    Glenfield • Since Jun 2013 • 39 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Ross Mason,

    a piano has 88 keys!*

    …on nine people. Only nine?????

    Yeah, I noticed that too, in amongst all his patronising “okays” ( are you following this, am I going to fast for you fools – seems to be what ‘okay’ means on Planet Key – it’s also used by con men to keep people on the back foot and deter them from looking too closely at what they’re saying).
    First he averaged the 88 out to 9-a-year over a decade, then later that morphed into just 9 people, more likely due to Key not being able to keep all his plates spinning, but a useful idea for him to seed in the nation’s minds.
    His analogy of Norton Antivirus, while laughable, leaves him the virus, I fear.

    His Mister Smiley persona was painted on thinly (and garishly) last night, and evaporated quickly.

    Give up up your day job, John, and go back to misdirection school.


    *not that I’m worried that our govt has been taken over by a cabal of evil numerologists or anything like that – but they do love messing with numbers (and us) and at the risk of Godwinning the whole thread, I merely note that Neo-Nazis use the number 88 as a code to represent the slogan Heil Hitler.

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7950 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell,

    So this morning youtube started playing me ads in Arabic .... will the NSA get the wrong idea? will the GCSB send some guys with handlebar mustaches around to knock on my door? I have nothing to hide, honest

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2622 posts Report Reply

  • "chris", in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    number 88

    (八 = 8 = bā) in Chinese net-speak 88 is customarily used as 'bye bye'. If only...
    8 is also the luckiest number..unfortunately 9 represents longevity, tangentially.

    location, location, locat… • Since Dec 2010 • 250 posts Report Reply

  • Raymond A Francis, in reply to Gary Young,

    Likewise Brian Edwards via twitter

    "Raving is not interviewing, John. A graceless and embarrassing performance. This from your greatest fan. Brian"

    Dr Edwards who most would agree knows about interviews and can hardly said to have a right wing bias (though I don’t doubt at least one fool will claim that his conclusion shows he must have one and that he is consequently a class traitor)

    45' South • Since Nov 2006 • 578 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Raymond A Francis,

    Dr Edwards who most would agree knows about interviews and can hardly said to have a right wing bias (though I don’t doubt at least one fool will claim that his conclusion shows he must have one and that he is consequently a class traitor)

    Edwards has a massive chip on his shoulder about Campbell in particular, and invariably comes down on the side of the interviewee in these situations. I thought this was actually a textbook demonstration of the problem with being too polite to your highly media-trained subject.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22848 posts Report Reply

  • HenryB, in reply to Russell Brown,

    I thought this was actually a textbook demonstration of the problem with being too polite to your highly media-trained subject.

    And also, seemingly, to lack `command' of the relevant legislation and the objections to it. Given that Campbell has been `on fire' on this subject (as someone said earlier in thread) I would have thought he would have been better prepared.

    Palmerston North • Since Sep 2008 • 106 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Cameron,

    That's what I thought, too, given that Campbell has been criticised in the past for being too combative. Was he holding back? I really wanted him to keep the PM on point but he allowed him to wander rather that distilling the interview down to a few pertinent points.

    There is a small part of me that questions how deliberate that was. I think it is fair to say if they get the PM back on, like he says he would, Campbell wouldn't let him get away with it twice.

    Christchurch • Since May 2013 • 15 posts Report Reply

  • Raymond A Francis, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Fair enough but regarding "the fool" via "The Standard" comments

    To Brian Edwards’ re his snippy Twitter comment…….get over yourself. The public interest as identified by the Law Society, Palmer, Salmond, Human Rights, Privacy and the rest is immeasurably more commanding than your self-accorded status as professor emeritus of New Zealand television journalism. I’m thinking “Old Fart” akshully.

    45' South • Since Nov 2006 • 578 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    I've written up an analysis of what I thought happened in the interview.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22848 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler, in reply to Ross Mason,

    Key says the 88 cases the GCSB did under the “old law” was on nine people. Only nine????? Hmmm…seems an awful lot of people following the few.

    Nine people per year.

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3215 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Graeme Edgeler,

    Nine people per year.

    On average. It might have been two in 2004 and 20 in 2011, which would have looked different. Nice bit of framing, which he used more than once.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22848 posts Report Reply

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