Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: The GCSB Bill: We at least have to try

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  • nzlemming,

    Gower is a dick, always has been. Garner wasn't much better but if he hadn't moved on, Gower wouldn't be getting any airtime at all. I think he was more chortling about Wright because she's Cambell Live, which isn't "real news" doncha know. The internecine bullshit inside TV3 News is unbelievable but, as I don't work there, my knowledge is second-hand anecdata so you'll have to ask someone who does work there. Gower cares more about his "access" to top politicians than actually getting real information.

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2935 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to nzlemming,

    The internecine bullshit inside TV3 News is unbelievable but, as I don't work there, my knowledge is second-hand anecdata so you'll have to ask someone who does work there. Gower cares more about his "access" to top politicians than actually getting real information.

    Wonder if he'll still keep a straight face if he got the Andrea Vance treatment.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5441 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    Nega-Tory

    ...the government’s insistence that not only does New Zealand want or need any further discussion of this striking piece of legislation, but that New Zealanders themselves aren’t even interested.

    "...not only does New Zealand not want or need any further discussion..." surely?

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7950 posts Report Reply

  • Tristan,

    Grower certainly looked like he was laughing at the new girl on his turf was pretty sickening to be honest

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 221 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    At least scaredy-cat Key was honest at the end of that piece, when he said he didn't think he'd go on the Campbell Live show, great opportunity for the other parties to fill the vacuum.
    Key is a karmic vacuum all by himself, as well as a whole new bad taste - Usmarmy any one?

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7950 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell,

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2622 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    Attachment

    Meet Maxi-millionaire Headroom!
    Lend me your ears…

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7950 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen, in reply to Andre,

    to persuade her husband [Dunne] not sell us out

    It's worth remembering that it's not just him selling us out. The same could be said of any National MP.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4460 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Tristan,

    Grower certainly looked like he was laughing at the new girl on his turf was pretty sickening to be honest

    I wonder if you guys might be over-interpreting. Rebecca Wright is an experienced reporter with a rep for doorstepping and pursuing politicians (to a fault sometimes, imo), Gower was probably smiling in a pass-the-popcorn fashion.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22848 posts Report Reply

  • linger, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    Key is [...] a whole new bad taste

    Smarmite? which would explain his propensity to smear...

    Tokyo • Since Apr 2007 • 1942 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to linger,

    Smarmite?

    Nice, spread the word!

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7950 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell,

    ha!

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2622 posts Report Reply

  • Tristan, in reply to Russell Brown,

    fair enough happy to be wrong on this, i asked him on the tweets and he never got back to me i wasn't #trollin honest

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 221 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole,

    Something that had passed me by, and I think probably passed by just about everyone else, was Ferguson on a panel at NetHui where he explained the nature of the GCSB's assistance when he was director:

    "I received a warrant signed and duly checked by the inspector of warrants and the head of either the police or Security Intelligence Service and the boss [the prime minister]. It comes to me and it asks specifically for help from the GCSB to spy on a specific target . . . they have to convince me in that warrant the reason why they're doing that and that means they have to show they have reason to believe that person is acting against the security of the state.

    "They then have to ask by name for the people in GCSB who may be able to help them - the specific specialist by name. I then sign a warrant or agreement in that warrant to second those individuals. I second them to the asking authority, be it the SIS or the police. So I've now seconded them, as far as I was aware, to that organisation.

    "They go across there, they do what is required by the SIS or the police and they finally finish the task and come back. At no stage . . . was I ever aware or made aware of the outcome. That wasn't my business."

    Makes a hell of a lot of sense as to how GCSB was able to remain internally convinced that it was complying with the law. Very, very arguably legal, contrary to the assertions of clear illegality on the part of some. Also, however, something that could be tidied up with a handful of words in the legislation, in either direction.
    Something like "For the avoidance of doubt the secondment of GCSB personnel to another agency for the purposes of providing technical assistance shall (not) be considered a breach of this section." (The not stays or goes depending what's intended) There, done. No need for sweeping expansions of the Bureau's power, no need for single-vote majorities on significant incursions into civil liberties, just a nice, neat, clear tidy-up which makes certain that everyone knows precisely where historic behaviour falls.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

  • Tom Semmens,

    Thomas Beagle notes “…Firstly, everyone agrees that section 8C of the Bill will allow the GCSB to spy on New Zealanders on behalf of the SIS, Police or NZ Defense Force…”

    The defense force? This raises a whole range of disturbing issues that need to be thrashed out. Who decided, and when was it decided, that the military is henceforth going to have such an active role in internal security that it needed sweeping powers to spy on whoever it liked? We all know who they will to spying on – subversives like Hager and Jon Stephenson. The casual addition of the army to the agencies of internal surveillance means how long until the next “crack down” on beneficiaries by Paula Bennett sees section 8C expanded to include the SIS, Police, NZ Defense Force, or WINZ..?”

    Sevilla, Espana • Since Nov 2006 • 2217 posts Report Reply

  • Chris Waugh, in reply to Tom Semmens,

    I don' know, Tom, I haven't seen anything to say the GCSB will be able to help NZDF with internal security. I would've thought they'd be supplying NZDF with intel about external threats. After all, not only was GCSB founded to be the foreign intelligence agency, they're also supposed to be the elint specialists and therefore presumably have access to info useful to NZDF that NZDF doesn't necessarily have the ability to intercept itself.

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 2401 posts Report Reply

  • Tom Semmens,

    I haven’t seen anything to say the GCSB will be able to help NZDF with internal security. I would’ve thought they’d be supplying NZDF with intel about external threats.

    Every single instance where we’ve glimpsed the operations of our spies, they’ve been spying on us. And under existing law the GCSB can supply information about foreign threats legally. What sort of threat from New Zealanders would cause the military – a organisation so rich in talent that an idiot like Lieutenant General Richard Rhys Jones was appointed to the top job – concern? Maybe a subversive journo? Or maybe someone in the SAS wants to know if that chick he spoke to in the pub has a boyfriend? We’d never know, cos it’ll all be unaccountable and secret.

    the army exists to defend us from foreign threats. Internal security is a matter for the police and the SIS. Allowing the army to spy on any internal “threat” it sees fit is very, very troubling. If we become the primary enemy of our own army then we might as well see if we can borrow the Esmeralda off the Chileans as an interrogation centre.

    Sevilla, Espana • Since Nov 2006 • 2217 posts Report Reply

  • Bruce Grey,

    Excellent piece Russell. Campbell Live's webpage says John Key is on the show tonight.

    Auckland • Since Oct 2007 • 28 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Bruce Grey,

    Porcine Airways presents...

    Campbell Live’s webpage says John Key is on the show tonight.

    OMG, Hell has frozen over!

    Hope they show him saying he wouldn't appear - at the end of that press conference - still we live in dynamic times with fluid events , so if Chameleon Key is comfortable contradicting himself, who are we to question him, eh...

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7950 posts Report Reply

  • Stewart, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    Oh, we must always question him. Incessantly, until he "leaves the building".

    Te Ika A Maui - Whakatane… • Since Oct 2008 • 577 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Bruce Grey,

    Excellent piece Russell. Campbell Live’s webpage says John Key is on the show tonight.

    Interesting, eh? They've clearly had a strategic rethink.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22848 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole, in reply to Russell Brown,

    They’ve clearly had a strategic rethink.

    Decided to say to Campbell's face that Kiwis are more interested in snapper than the GCSB legislation, maybe?

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen, in reply to Russell Brown,

    They’ve clearly had a strategic rethink

    Someone did a poll

    I'm sure we'll discover it was all Labour's fault anyway ... and the earthquake ... and the GFC

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4460 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

    So, John Key is going to get the GCSB to sort out Snapper and stop it failing to register when people get off the bus and charging them $6? Admirable, but free buses would probably be cheaper.

    But srsly, I do think there is a largish group in NZ who buy into the bullshit and actually *want* the government to spy on freaks, geeks and wierdos. These people are probably a plurality in drone suburbs like Dunne and Key's electorates, which explains why such people are so relaxed about any opposition.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    And the children! They're thinking of the children! That's what these latest protection orders are about, along with allowing the GCSB to turn its collective beady eyes on paedophiles. The children!

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

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