Hard News: Jonesing
370 Responses
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Russell Brown, in reply to
I have to say, while I think Curran was pretty clumsy, I don’t much sympathy for Michie. If she’d been asked “is Jones’ race an issue” and replied “Well, not for me, but for some people, and you’d have to be naive etc” everyone would agree that was hugely improper.
The right answer (if you’re a candidate surrogate) i
But she wasn't a candidate surrogate at the time. And she was answering a direct question and she really didn't say anything different from what Mike Williams said.
It was probably a good move by Cunliffe to drop her to end the flap, but it seems to have been a scandal ginned up out of very little indeed. Without Curran seizing on it and Gower adopting it for that evening's conflict report, I think what was said would have been of little moment.
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Stephen Judd, in reply to
Notice how Gower has conflated MPs who will give Grant their 1st preference with those who "hate his guts".
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Steve Barnes, in reply to
… my) experience of actually being, y’know, women, and putting up with the ‘ladies be crazy’ trope for most of our lives, is at least as pertinent and relevant as your experience of interacting with women. I don’t think there are any ‘lived experience’ trump cards available here.
+1
Apart from the “interacting with women” bit, I tend to differentiate more on behaviour and attitude than genre.
Do I take offence to being called a Dick about as much as I feel insulted as being called a Troll.
But Hey…. I’m only some bloke, eh?.Anyway I don’t have much to offer on the choice of leader for Labour, may the best man win (am I allowed to say that?).
I do believe however, that all the media bullshit and the tittle tatlle and tourtured tweets are just playing to the front bench of our fourth form humoured Government and their giggling gonad rack of a Prime Minister. A little more patience and less panic would be in order, I think. -
Rob Stowell, in reply to
Look at the Standard and the Daily Blog and the pretty much continuous campaign of vilification against MPs who don’t back Cunliffe. Hilary Stace got screamed at there for suggesting Ruth Dyson was a pretty decent Minister.
Fair enough. And yuck. I haven't spent much eyeball at Teh Std or the Daily Bog and don't 'specially want to. There are supporters of all 3 who have made asses of themselves. It's stupid and destructive.
And Ruth Dyson was a good minister for disabilities- she really bloody listened, for a start.
There are Labour MPs who deserve a kick in the pants who support each one of the candidates. And there'll be a time and place for that, too, no doubt ... -
Russell Brown, in reply to
I do believe however, that all the media bullshit and the tittle tatlle and tourtured tweets are just playing to the front bench of our fourth form humoured Government and their giggling gonad rack of a Prime Minister. A little more patience and less panic would be in order, I think.
Now that's on-topic.
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Deborah, in reply to
There are Labour MPs who deserve a kick in the pants who support each one of the candidates. And there’ll be a time and place for that, too, no doubt …
And former MPs. I watched a couple of them after one of the hustings meetings, actively lobbying against one of the candidates, and putting real pressure on some of the younger people there. It left a very nasty taste in my mouth.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
Notice how Gower has conflated MPs who will give Grant their 1st preference with those who “hate his guts”.
Yes. It gets wearying.
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Keir Leslie, in reply to
Eh, close enough to being a surrogate by that point I think. And "Mike Williams did it too" is not a huge endorsement, in many ways...
I'm not saying what she did was a hugely immoral act to be punished, and I definitely agree if it hadn't been brought up it wouldn't have been an issue. But when it came up, there really wasn't any other option than just to go. It's at the all in the game level for me --- Michie was being cute, the ref saw, that's it.
(Especially, because, you know, fired from your unpaid volunteer position four days before it would finish anyway? Sucks, and it'd be super crappy if it was you. But there's plenty future in the party for you after that.)
And I think Curran may have been clumsy, but again, the world is full of homophobia, and not that full of people being called up on it.
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Sacha, in reply to
that evening's conflict report
... 'it's going to get nasty' ...
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Deborah, in reply to
close enough to being a surrogate by that point I think.
Well... it's arguable, either way. I know that in conversation, DC has been very much opposed to raising any issue whatsoever to do with candidate's private lives.
I do think that Curran was trying to cause trouble,, given that the whole thing only surfaced a couple of weeks after the program aired. So it was a little more than being clumsy. Possibly even quite deliberate, or at a minimum, ill-thought through.
Anyway, I suspect that most people have cast their votes by now, and it's just a matter of waiting for the announcement on Sunday.
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Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
And I think Curran may have been clumsy,
I sent her an email. Hope she replies next week. This week is theirs for the new Leader.
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Sacha, in reply to
I think we all know who I'm talking about
don't you start :)
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Alex Coleman, in reply to
Notice how Gower has conflated MPs who will give Grant their 1st preference with those who “hate his guts”.
See I'm not so sure. You can say whatever you like about the pseudonymous activists at the Standard, but the ABC in caucus people have got form for this sort of dirty pool. Would Gower really take an off the record quote from the DC camp, and spin it as Cunliffe's opponent's hating his guts? That's a pretty big assumption to make, no?
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Sacha, in reply to
I think Curran may have been clumsy
I tripped and fell on the Send button, your honour
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Henry Barnard, in reply to
There is at least 1 caucus member who wanted Paddy to report that Cunliffe will have a caucus in which 15 members hate his guts, but lacks the courage to be open about it, or accept the party process.
Only 1? I went along to a husting and, like many, have been following the others in other ways. At the one I attended Robertson portrayed himself as the one who could `unify' the party. Cunliffe, as always, was made to answer the obligatory question about `loyalty'... and, in other venues, constantly asked why so many people disliked him with Robertson looking virtuous, sitting by his side.
Well, if Robertson cannot bring any discipline to his supporters at this stage, what hope for the future? And why remain deafeningly silent on this kind of dog whistling? I won't say it as bad as other types of dog whistling but it is certainly corrosive.
My take on Gower is that the politican he most admires is `Crusher' Collins.
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Sacha, in reply to
have got form for this sort of dirty pool
verily
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Keir Leslie, in reply to
I think it’s a bit off to dismiss a legitimate concern that people in the party were running lines that looked a lot like a homophobic dog whistle as simply “trying to cause trouble”. Apart from anything else, if Curran thought that anti-Roberston figures were dog whistling, they deserve to get in trouble!
As I say, I think Michie's case is all in the game, and just a combination of trying a bit on, being slightly unfortunate in words, and bad luck. But I do think some pro-Cunliffe figures were running homophobic lines, and that does need to be called out – in the same way that if people were running racist lines against Jones, that’s not ok either.
[Also, guys, Cunliffe gets asked about loyalty heaps because historically he’s had form in that area. Robertson doesn’t, and nor does Jones, and so they don’t get asked.]
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Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
I tripped and fell on the Send button, your honour
:) Bart moment
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Deborah, in reply to
Are you going to be at the conference in November, Keir? If so, it would be good to talk. Maybe over a glass of chardonnay, seeing as we're socialists.
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I hope that by the time the issue will be very academic.
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Deborah, in reply to
I meant in general, not about the leadership per se. And yes, it will be very academic by then, and very much a matter of working to support whoever is the leader.
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Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
And yes, it will be very academic by then, and very much a matter of working to support whoever is the leader.
Yay!
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Sacha, in reply to
if Curran thought
it's her job how?
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Can we please get rid of Nactional? ..... Thanks
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Keir Leslie, in reply to
Oh yes, we should definitely organise a online-time-wasting members meet-up sometime that weekend. (Ideally reasonably early on, before everyone becomes exhausted, angry and frustrated.)
Also Sacha are you kidding? “How is it a Labour MPs job to call out bigotry?” I dunno, I kinda reckon it’s a pretty core KPI for me. One reason I’ve been unimpressed with some MPs over the past couple of weeks.
[And I don't mean Cunliffe there, to be clear.]
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