Hard News: Doing over the witness
328 Responses
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Jack Harrison, in reply to
A true christian does not write the headline , "Feral dies in greymouth, did world a favour."
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mark taslov, in reply to
People seem pretty complacent. It is also proving to be the only way to show Team Key for who they are and their complicit behaviour.
Customarily I’m deeply skeptical about the motivations of anyone who takes it upon themselves to defend the all powerful state apparatus. “If one would give me six lines written by the hand of…”; It’s not as if without their advocacy, the machine will wilt and die, and he’s just coaxed another 6 lines from 20 people, whose only tangible power is their collective voice.
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mark taslov, in reply to
When people stay quiet, shut their doors behind themselves, and choose not to take sides, we have the authoritarian system succeeding. And that tells me, it is time to be seriously concerned, and to take a stand.
The market place of ideas is no place for prohibition.
Thomas Jefferson argued that it is safe to tolerate "error of opinion ... where reason is left free to combat it"
Ride on hands free Marc, the most extreme voices hold the lines:
Actually, make it a point to not find any fast food irresistible, just for the overall betterment of society in general
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The right wing blogs always love the idea of clarity into affairs, the truth of sunlight. This book is a sunlight into a dark place , but of course its them.
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Dean Wallis, in reply to
A true christian does not write the headline , “Feral dies in greymouth, did world a favour.”
With religion to one side for a moment, I would say that the quote was written by a person "boldly empowered" - the type of coward that rushes forward and gets a couple of kicks in when the assault victim has been knocked down by the gang's leader. No risk of personal injury to themselves, but the rush!
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Jack Harrison, in reply to
Yes smashing people is a thrill for some. It's a roll kind of thing.
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nzlemming, in reply to
A true human does not write the headline , “Feral dies in greymouth, did world a favour.
Fixed that for you
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Jack Harrison, in reply to
Yes. Still I wasn’t bought up in Jesusland for 16 years without knowing this.
"That you can’t like the fact that someone you don’t know has died in a car crash and you are so moved by it you express delight in it.” -
nzlemming, in reply to
Yes. Still I wasn’t bought up in Jesusland for 16 years without knowing this.
"As long as you do it to these, the least of my brethren, you do it unto me."
I lasted 2 years longer than you, full metal catholic as well. Very handy when debating evolution with fundies...
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mark taslov, in reply to
full metal catholic
The best kind:
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Chris Waugh, in reply to
Marc, while I generally agree with you, I find your hyperbole to be considerably less than helpful. Here's an example of how things happen in a real authoritarian state. You may also like to think about how it is you can post comments like yours here without them disappearing and without fear of an unwelcome knock on the door. Is NZ even close to that level of authoritarianism? No. Your comparison with East Germany and Latin American former dictatorships remains ludicrous.
And apart from finding your OTT comparison a little rude - some of us live in properly authoritarian states and do actually need to think about what we say and write in public - I worry that comparisons like yours make it easy for sympathetic but complacently unconcerned people to write off our worries as the ramblings of loony left nutters. Sure, bad things happen, but NZ isn't like that, and besides, he must've had it coming, because all that abuse of power stuff happens overseas in awful little countries, not here in NZ....
So, yes, there is much in this case to be worried about, the government is showing a rather dangerous authoritarian streak, we do need to nip this nonsense in the bud right now because it could easily develop into something truly scary if we don't. But please let's keep it all in a proper, realistic perspective.
Now I've said what I have to say on this particular threadjack. I won't take it any further. Back to Nicky Hager...
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Serious question: can anyone figure out why the police were there for 10 hours ?
Hager's not a materialistic guy, so I assume he's got an average-size house. Let's assume two bedrooms, lounge, kitchen, bathroom and his office. So six rooms, for argument's sake.
There is no way it'd take 10 hours to search six rooms. Maybe two or three at most. But 10 ? Why so long ?
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nzlemming, in reply to
Why so long ?
Sekrit panels...
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izogi, in reply to
It can be if you like. Just tick the box.
I see there's a voucher system, which would also help to avoid tracking of credit card details for anyone who cares about that. Is there anywhere out there which sells GiveALittle.co.nz vouchers in exchange for cash? The FAQ doesn't seem too clear on this.
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izogi, in reply to
Serious question: can anyone figure out why the police were there for 10 hours ?
I haven't seen the wider context of this tweet, but apparently Police claimed something about it having taken that long because he was being given the right to claim journalistic privilege, whatever that means.
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Kumara Republic, in reply to
As I've commented before this is a pretty good litmus test for those 4th estate entities that see themselves as genuine news organisations or are happy to be in the pay of the National Party/WO smear machine.
The MSM score so far (not including those directly responsible for Dirty Politics):
For Hager:
* Matt Nippert (FF/NZH)
* David Fisher (NZH)Against Hager:
* Susan Wood (ZB)
* Bill RalstonNeutral:
* Marcus Lush
* Claire Trevett (NZH)
* Katie Bradford (TV1)
* Michael Parkin (TV1 deputy pol editor)No comment so far:
* Corin Dann (TV1 pol editor)
* Patrick Gower (TV3 pol editor)
* Duncan Garner (RL)
* Brook Sabin (TV3)
* Jared Savage (NZH)
* Andrea Vance (FF)
* Tracy Watkins (FF) -
Kumara Republic, in reply to
Hager's not a materialistic guy, so I assume he's got an average-size house. Let's assume two bedrooms, lounge, kitchen, bathroom and his office. So six rooms, for argument's sake.
He's a trained builder, so he would have saved big.
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Kumara Republic, in reply to
The market place of ideas is no place for prohibition.
Neither should it be a place for commercial monopolies.
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mark taslov, in reply to
For sure DeepRed, casual collaboration is the essence. I know all too well where Chris is coming from here. In this and many instances it is he and others functioning as the voice of reason. This voice of reason in turn facilitates the extremists pulling back and consolidating their lines. The value I see in the extreme expressing the wayward position – and this goes for Dylan too on the opposite line – is that expressing the least desirable better equips the reasonable to recognise and express those features which define the current circumstance – which in turn can aid the collective in expressing the most desirable, though as adults we tend to shy away from this.
Children employ these methods when playing and conjuring up imaginary worlds. Someone like Marc may attempt to limit the expansion, employing extreme examples to highlight flaws, Dylan may be construed as too lassez-faire in terms not accepting what the centre may view as reasonable limitations. The key difference here is that children will take this process to its natural conclusion – at the end of the day – of reaching some kind of consensus as to exactly what kind of world is most desirable and in turn manifesting that.
Obviously a very simplifistic analogy, but I’m sure someone’s gone to the trouble of writing some theory on this.
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So, speaking of the police raiding the guy who wrote a book that seriously inconvenienced the political aspirations of the previous minister of police, who had obviously had a part in appointing our most senior police officers, often photographed with them touting the new powers she'd given them ...
Wouldn't it just be nothing other than that? He hurt Judith, a friend to the boys in blue, so he gets the stick. Bound by the law this is the worst they can give him, hovering around the family for a day and walking out with his work gear while worrying him on the phone. Putting it all away for evidence of something they'll never get around to, so basically just stealing all his stuff, lawfully.
Putting airs on the police about seeking to intimidate journalism or something, every experience in my life with police suggests they are much simpler than that. Someone they like (someone like them) got hurt, they dish it out in return, all legal like. -
mark taslov, in reply to
so basically just stealing all his stuff, lawfully.
That’s exactly how I described it to my better half.
every experience in my life with police suggests they are much simpler than that.
Yep. The salt granule is that Dylan has never been party to a search warrant.
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nzlemming, in reply to
I haven’t seen the wider context of this tweet, but apparently Police claimed something about it having taken that long because he was being given the right to claim journalistic privilege, whatever that means.
That link has a rogue 'g' in it. Should be this
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This use of the word 'witness' to characterise Hager's role: really?
Because - without necessarily buying into the whole 'receiver of stolen property' thing - it seems to me that to characterise Hager's role in all this as just a witness does quite a bit of damage to the English language.
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nzlemming, in reply to
This use of the word ‘witness’ to characterise Hager’s role: really?
Because – without necessarily buying into the whole ‘receiver of stolen property’ thing – it seems to me that to characterise Hager’s role in all this as just a witness does quite a bit of damage to the English language.
I thought you cleverer than that, Rob. If not “witness”, what word are you suggesting?
[edit] It was the police who used the word, just so you know, so we can probably assume it to be technically correct.
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