Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: Doing over the witness

Rosemary McDonald

Sun, 12 Oct 2014 15:48:10 +1300

That’s because he has nothing to hold.

But he still gets to wave it around....

nzlemming

Sun, 12 Oct 2014 15:34:12 +1300

And Hide holds nothing back….

That's because he has nothing to hold.

Rosemary McDonald

Sun, 12 Oct 2014 11:03:31 +1300

And Hide holds nothing back....

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11341061

nzlemming

Sat, 11 Oct 2014 14:44:12 +1300

As my wife said, it's a bit like Roderigo calling Iago as a character witness.

nzlemming

Sat, 11 Oct 2014 12:17:48 +1300

The irony of O'Sullivan citing Odgers to declare her innocence seems to have escaped her.

nzlemming

Sat, 11 Oct 2014 11:54:10 +1300

Wake up or cover up?

Kumara Republic

Sat, 11 Oct 2014 11:29:19 +1300

And is Fran O starting to wake up?

Kumara Republic

Sat, 11 Oct 2014 10:40:36 +1300

On the one hand, this Granny editorial is wary of the police raid on Hager…

Editorial: Hager raid an intimidatory over-reaction

BUT… John Roughan fiddles while Rome burns. And he’s still on the Press Council?

John Roughan: Press can be too precious about its rights

Which leads me to believe the editorial…

Ian Dalziel

Sat, 11 Oct 2014 08:40:43 +1300

Who do these people think they are?
More reasons to suspect the honesty of police – just great!
Waikato police covered up the existence of a corrupt cop who stole drugs from a police station evidence safe.
The theft is believed to be the reason a Black Power gang member…

Jack Harrison

Fri, 10 Oct 2014 21:51:09 +1300

On a sober citizen platform. What has happened is so fucking unproductive to good policy making and civil discourse that the N.Z blogosphere is tainted.

It will have to be herded into the public legal eye for clarification of how this mess happened.

Sofie Bribiesca

Fri, 10 Oct 2014 21:43:26 +1300

Can I get a hashtag? No, cos I don't do that but I know a couple of things for sure. Slater is slime. The people he sets out to hurt don't deserve it. Slater can not be trusted. Money is the root of all evil. Follow that and you will…

Jack Harrison

Fri, 10 Oct 2014 20:55:29 +1300

#dirtybusiness#weaklaw#KarlRovehero#defamatationfree# #onlinebullying#beenprettyobviousforalongtime#money-ego#nationalprty

Sacha

Fri, 10 Oct 2014 20:50:05 +1300

Slater’s vendetta on Blomfield was apparently at the behest of Blomfield’s former Hell Pizza partners

One of whom is apparently friends with.. Carrick Graham.
#dirtybusiness

Jack Harrison

Fri, 10 Oct 2014 20:39:29 +1300

This would be massive headline fodder if you or another blogger did it.

It’s severe full on intimidation. An attempt to basically stress a citizen out until they are so mentally strained and their life is so tarnished publically that they , excuse the pun, live in hell.

N.Z is…

Russell Brown

Fri, 10 Oct 2014 20:27:02 +1300

Agreed. But while Slater is odious, Hell Pizza aren’t exactly, er, saints, either. A couple of years’ ago on Campbell Live (iirc) there was a story on a couple that’d bought into the franchise and somehow ended up in dispute with it.

The franchise responded with some pretty heavy legal…

tussock

Fri, 10 Oct 2014 20:15:16 +1300

If word gets around this thread could get really long.

So I always like to drop into these conversations that if some thug beats the snot out of you or breaks all your stuff out of spite, it's bloody nice to have a police force that will take offence on…

DexterX

Fri, 10 Oct 2014 14:41:13 +1300

But once you have personal experience of Police corruption, your perception of the law changes forever.

You're not wrong – leads me to bit of a rant.

I witnessed in the mid to late 60s my parents treatment by police after they phoned in a break in at the local…

nzlemming

Fri, 10 Oct 2014 14:01:13 +1300

Unless submitters have a competent legal representative, a consultant, an expert witness or lawyer acting for them, going through the complex, highly bureaucratic, legalistic bits of the PAUP and proposed changes, they are basically “stuffed”.

It's the same with the RMA "Boards of Inquiry", especially around the Roads of Notional…

Marc C

Fri, 10 Oct 2014 12:51:45 +1300

While I take your point and accept that my earlier comment was in part over the top, I think we have reason to be very concerned about the system we still have in New Zealand. Indeed questions are justified, re how much of a democracy we still are, given that…

izogi

Fri, 10 Oct 2014 11:17:44 +1300

It’d be interesting to know the legal opinion on what happened.

Here's some more info. This might be more like an employment dispute than a direct relationship to the Slater stuff.

izogi

Fri, 10 Oct 2014 10:33:03 +1300

Interesting legal judgement re data ‘theft’ here:

Wow. An initial 30 months imprisonment for downloading data from an employer seems like a lot, but that’s also without knowing context. From this earlier report, it sounds like some of the context was that he (allegedly) downloaded a massive amount of data…

Alfie

Fri, 10 Oct 2014 10:29:56 +1300

That’s the way I grew up in NZ, with Constable Keith and Sniff on What Now, making sure I knew I could always trust the community police officer.

I grew up in fifties Dunedin at a time when we all trusted the local cops. They walked the beat past our…

Grant McDougall

Fri, 10 Oct 2014 09:56:28 +1300

I never liked Hell Pizza’s marketing approach – but that’s no reason to take someone’s life apart, just because you can.

Agreed. But while Slater is odious, Hell Pizza aren’t exactly, er, saints, either. A couple of years’ ago on Campbell Live (iirc) there was a story on a couple…

Joe Wylie

Fri, 10 Oct 2014 08:12:18 +1300

That’s the way I grew up in NZ, with Constable Keith and Sniff on What Now, making sure I knew I could always trust the community police officer.

And there was Crimewatch, aka Maoriwatch. Once NZers had got over the embarassment of their own accents on TV, poor old Ian…

Ian Dalziel

Fri, 10 Oct 2014 07:49:50 +1300

Interesting legal judgement re data 'theft' here:
...was found guilty earlier this year of accessing a computer for dishonest purposes after downloading Tag Oil (NZ) Ltd's geotechnical data from the company's computer.
...
**But in quashing those convictions the Court of Appeal found that data obtained from the computer was…

Euan Mason

Fri, 10 Oct 2014 05:45:13 +1300

According to The Herald, Slater appears to have tried to arrange a prison hit.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11339962

Is there enough evidence for a prosecution? What are the legal implications of this type of info?

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 23:07:45 +1300

I never liked Hell Pizza's marketing approach
– but that's no reason to take someone's life apart, just because you can.
I really hope Slater ends up doing time inside, he's made 'outside' pretty unsavoury to suit himself... or someone.

izogi

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 22:41:34 +1300

I'll never look at Hell Pizzas the same way again.

izogi

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 22:34:04 +1300

In Oz (Vic.), where I went to school on and off instead of NZ, they teach teenagers not to trust the police. [–snip–] My experience is most people in NZ think the police are this magical wall holding back the growing darkness

That’s the way I grew up in NZ,…

Joe Wylie

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 21:35:26 +1300

My experience is most people in NZ think the police are this magical wall holding back the growing darkness, and continue to until one day a policeman stitches someone they know up for some bullshit little thing and their whole world tuns upside down for a while.

IMHE Australians aren't…

Sacha

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 20:54:13 +1300

David Fisher has an in depth piece outlining the background to the Slater v Blomfield case.

Compelling. Recommended read.

andrew llewellyn

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 20:50:06 +1300

I'm told Marc Spring is a good mate of Carrick Graham's so yeah, he does fit in.

Jack Harrison

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 19:15:58 +1300

That David Fisher article is a disturbing and soul destroying read. Matt Blomfield has every right to feel intense anger over this. It’s a bizarre story .

Russell Brown

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 19:06:42 +1300

The bizarre and confusing timeline of Cameron Slater's feelings about Hell Pizza ...

In 2009, Hell's stunt with a billboard outside Mark Hotchin's house is "superb timely marketing". And more of the same.

By 2011, Slater says Hell has been "persecuting" and "vilifying" Hotchin and founder Warren Powell is "scum".…

tussock

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 18:44:49 +1300

I suspect it’s something to do with being traumatised by the discovery that one was deceived over the existence of Santa Claus.
In Oz (Vic.), where I went to school on and off instead of NZ, they teach teenagers not to trust the police. In high school. It's a very…

Joe Wylie

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 18:14:03 +1300

Also here. Mr Geddis on form, cutting through the fluff.

Marc C

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 18:06:00 +1300

I did hear this Nine to Noon interview on RNZ yesterday, with Andrew Geddis, and he summarised all the legal issues there may be, that the police, and to some degree Hager, may be facing in this context, being the excessive application of search and seizure:

http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/20152607/law-commentator-andrew-geddis

It is worth…

Trevor Nicholls

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 17:47:39 +1300

And here's NZ 1st = with Denmark in the international corruption perception index for the last 2 years. How much longer can that last?

Rosemary McDonald

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 17:35:10 +1300

Without the camera footage.....the IPCA would have backed the Police.

Betcha.

Alfie

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 17:13:50 +1300

David Fisher has an in depth piece outlining the background to the Slater v Blomfield case. It contains information that's new to me and further evidence of just how nasty whaleshit and his associates can be.

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 16:48:22 +1300

we are the Police, we are here to help...
a fine example of Police heavy handedness from Timaru.
Before the court hearing, police discovered that the briefs of evidence of the two officers involved were contradicted by the Taser camera footage, but the prosecution was still allowed to proceed.
The…

Alfie

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 16:30:35 +1300

Thanks Joe. Of course the related NBR story has the usual a collection of comments from right wingers who can only see Nicky as a criminal.

And Police are finally reviewing Blomfield's two-year-old criminal complaint against Slater over the "vast quantity of private emails" extracted from the stolen hard drive the…

Joe Wylie

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 14:54:54 +1300

Where does this come from?
This is all I've seen, no indication of who's behind it.

Alfie

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 14:18:12 +1300

I see that the usual suspects are trying to get the Hager fundraising effort shutdown .... time to give a little more ....

Who are these people? Do you have a reference for that Paul?

The fund has reached $37,683 so far... and counting.

Susan Snowdon

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 14:15:53 +1300

I see that the usual suspects are trying to get the Hager fundraising effort shutdown …. time to give a little more ….

Where does this come from?

Paul Campbell

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 12:11:30 +1300

I see that the usual suspects are trying to get the Hager fundraising effort shutdown .... time to give a little more ....

Kyle Matthews

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 11:38:26 +1300

Yes, your argument out of context looked to me like Pascal’s Wager, but in context it makes sense. The missing bit was “And we also have good reasons in this case to think that I am right”.

Exactly my point. It always comes back to "how likely do we think…

Peter McFarlane

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 00:42:02 +1300

I find it somewhat galling that Police cannot proceed with a prosecution of John Banks for electoral fraud in 2010 when the evidence was available as demonstrated when a private citizen prosecuted, yet when it seems extremely unlikely that they will find anything that will identify the hacker it's still…

william blake

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 18:50:38 +1300

Nicky may technically be a witness but I prefer to think of him as a journalist. He will not be naming his source so no witnessing here.

Is 50 hours worth of investigation in one day a lot? Take five guys and split wood for ten hours, imagine the pile…

Ian Dalziel

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 17:50:22 +1300

Sharkey is here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaBbHGKLp88

BenWilson

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 16:34:37 +1300

Because you can create a similar 2x2 logic equation that is absurd does not make what I presented less relevant, it is an utterly false equivalency.

Yes, your argument out of context looked to me like Pascal's Wager, but in context it makes sense. The missing bit was "And we…

Bart Janssen

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 15:59:20 +1300

so by that logic we should be trying to prevent aliens invading the earth.

If you don’t think Bart being right is at all likely,

I tend to believe governmental influence being used to suggest that the police intimidate journalists is significantly more likely than alien invasion.

Presenting absurd parallels…

BenWilson

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 15:56:30 +1300

I could construct this same 2x2 box for “aliens are invading earth!”, and come up with the same answers, so by that logic we should be trying to prevent aliens invading the earth.

Yes, it was an argument structurally similar to Pascal’s Wager, which no scientist would ever accept as…

Ian Dalziel

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 15:26:24 +1300

I AM...
Perhaps it would help if we were all Rawshark...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8h_v_our_Q

Kumara Republic

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 15:15:15 +1300

Worth noting that the only person to suffer any fallout from the revelations in Dirty Politics so far is Judith Collins, and the police adore her.

Maybe Ross Meurant had a point about the force he used to serve in.

Russell Brown

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 15:11:49 +1300

The cops don’t need to be corrupt for this to be a bad thing. They don’t need to be intentionally chilling speech for them to be chilling speech.

Quite.

Keir Leslie

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 15:04:54 +1300

The cops don't need to be corrupt for this to be a bad thing. They don't need to be intentionally chilling speech for them to be chilling speech.

st ephen

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 14:55:40 +1300

The Police were quick smart to protect their own.
Worth noting that the only person to suffer any fallout from the revelations in Dirty Politics so far is Judith Collins, and the police adore her.

Gary Elshaw

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 14:39:23 +1300

There has been some great discussion in this thread, but there has been little discussion concerning the timing of the execution of the warrant. Not only does it seem suspicious concerning the amount of time that has passed since the publication of the Dirty Politics book, but it's also worth…

Kyle Matthews

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 14:39:12 +1300

My understanding has always been that Police don’t get to keep revenue from speed cameras and that it all goes into the government’s consolidated fund. That’s also what Police claim, but I can’t find the legislative reference (if any) right now.

Police don't keep revenue gathered from speeding tickets, it…

Kumara Republic

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 14:29:02 +1300

The application and the enforcement of law in NZ is a variable commodity when dealing with issues that lean heavily on the political sphere. John Key’s and National’s “perceived” interest seem to me to be one of the dominating variables – people may differ – but this is what I…

Bart Janssen

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 14:22:30 +1300

The point is that suggesting this is political, or at the behest of the SIS or others, has massive implications.

That is precisely my point. You are arguing black and blue that there is nothing serious here at all, and I disagree with you.

Which is all fine and dandy.…

Chris Waugh

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 14:17:50 +1300

I also wonder if police speed cameras are less to do with actual road safety, and more to do with gathering revenue

Oh, bollocks. Speed cameras have been around for ages and the entire time they've attracted whinging about revenue gathering. We all know the speed limits and why we…

AndrewH

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 14:16:38 +1300

I get where you're coming from Chris, but I don't entirely agree with it. Just because the GFC didn't leave Western countries with the economies of Ethiopia doesn't mean it wasn't a cataclysmic financial event for them. And while you're right, the truly authoritarian states are worlds apart from where…

DexterX

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 14:05:14 +1300

The point is that suggesting this is political, or at the behest of the SIS or others, has massive implications.
The police are far from perfect, but I still think they've proven to be fairly independent.

"John Banks" – The police do a raid as part of the Teapot Tapes…

izogi

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 13:23:40 +1300

I also wonder if police speed cameras are less to do with actual road safety, and more to do with gathering revenue to make up for budget cuts.

My understanding has always been that Police don’t get to keep revenue from speed cameras and that it all goes into the…

Hilary Stace

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 13:10:41 +1300

There were several journalists at Nicky's talk to the Wellington medical school last Friday. Some identified themselves when they asked questions. One was Ben Heather who has written some good stuff on disability (always a positive for me) and he and his colleague wrote this [[http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10585923/Hager-vows-to-protect-hackers-ID|neutral piece for the DomPost…

Sofie Bribiesca

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 12:58:36 +1300

a lot more damning than one press statement and a shit ton of speculation.

I believe what Hager is telling the public because this is in the public interest of which has been Hagers claim all along. Whilst I have had decent treatment from the Police when my Mum died…

Rosemary McDonald

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 12:57:46 +1300

The police are far from perfect, but I still think they’ve proven to be fairly independent.

I’m as concerned about whether those making the decisions in the Police are competent as I am about whether they’re independent.

It doesn’t necessarily take a secret meeting and a direct request from the…

Kumara Republic

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 12:54:59 +1300

I’m as concerned about whether those making the decisions in the Police are competent as I am about whether they’re independent.

It doesn’t necessarily take a secret meeting and a direct request from the PM or another Minister for police to make a dumb and/or badly biased decision about which…

Kumara Republic

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 12:40:52 +1300

Updated 8/10/2014 12:35pm: The MSM score so far (not including those directly responsible for Dirty Politics):

For Hager:
* Matt Nippert (FF/NZH)
* David Fisher (NZH)
* Dita De Boni (NZH)

Against Hager:
* Susan Wood (ZB)
* Bill Ralston
* Colin Espiner (ex-FF, now SkyCity)

Neutral:
* Marcus Lush…

izogi

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 12:25:22 +1300

The police are far from perfect, but I still think they’ve proven to be fairly independent.

I’m as concerned about whether those making the decisions in the Police are competent as I am about whether they’re independent.

It doesn’t necessarily take a secret meeting and a direct request from the…

Dylan Reeve

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 12:15:34 +1300

Oh bullshit. You’re simply far too squeamish to even consider the possibility.

If I'm to consider it I want to see something a lot more damning than one press statement and a shit ton of speculation. There's nothing about what seems to be known about the whole event that doesn't…

Joe Wylie

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 12:03:43 +1300

It’s an extraordinary claim I think – and typically extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, which I really don’t think is evident (so far?) in this case.

Oh bullshit. You're simply far too squeamish to even consider the possibility.

Dylan Reeve

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 12:01:53 +1300

If you accept that this was harassment of a journalist to intimidate and dissuade him and other potential whistleblowers – by our police – at the behest of our government – then that is a truly scary proposition.

I totally get why some people react by trying to find some…

Dylan Reeve

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 11:56:08 +1300

I may be reading too much into this but it seems to me as though this may be a reason for why the police raided while Nicky was in Auckland. He may have been able to prevent the search entirely if he or a representative had been present at the…

Bart Janssen

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 11:55:45 +1300

It blows my mind just a little how very keen some people are to ascribe just, disinterested motives to the police.

Because the alternative is that we are not living in the open honest society we thought we were.

If you accept that this was harassment of a journalist to…

Joe Wylie

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 11:50:37 +1300

It blows my mind just a little how very keen some people are to ascribe just, disinterested motives to the police. Really? On THIS issue?

I suspect it’s something to do with being traumatised by the discovery that one was deceived over the existence of Santa Claus. Talkback, and increasingly…

Joe Wylie

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 11:46:32 +1300

eah right.

Perhaps your definition of ‘many’ varies from mine.

Fair enough Kyle, but for me your account significantly seems to ignore Police Association President Greg O'Connor's aggressive politicising of police issues.

Danielle

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 11:42:43 +1300

I had my house searched when I was a child because my father was being prosecuted for industrial espionage (long story). It didn't take ten hours and there were only two people doing the search.

It blows my mind just a little how very keen some people are to ascribe…

izogi

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 11:20:17 +1300

The Press: This necessitated a process where all items had to be catalogued, secured, sealed and countersigned by both police and Mr Hager’s lawyer prior to being removed from the address.

Would police have had an advantage in this process with Nicky Hager being out of town? Even if he's…

pneumeric

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 11:19:42 +1300

The search and surveillance act seems to have given a bit more protection in this regard;

Effect of privilege on search warrants and search powers
A person who makes a claim of privilege (being a privilege recognised by this subpart) in respect of any thing that is seized or sought…

Alfie

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 11:18:24 +1300

The Press has a page 3 piece
"Police explain Hager Raid"
– can't find it on-line yet

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10585923/Hager-vows-to-protect-hackers-ID

Kyle Matthews

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 11:11:29 +1300

Yeah right.

Perhaps your definition of 'many' varies from mine.

Ian Dalziel

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 10:47:06 +1300

The Holo Men?
Just a reminder of how the last police enquiry into stolen emails went...
The investigation saw police interview Parliamentary computer staff, Parliamentary Security staff, cleaners, members of Dr Brash's staff, Politicians, journalists and friends of Dr Brash.
"Many of them had their own theories on who was…

Joe Wylie

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 10:36:26 +1300

Sometimes the police force will influence laws, but in my experience they don’t tend to lead the charge on many law changes in their area
Yeah right.

Ian Dalziel

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 10:34:09 +1300

The Press has a page 3 piece
"Police explain Hager Raid"
– can't find it on-line yet
Police have defended the 10 hours it took to search author Nicky Hager's home, saying it was because they respected his claim to journalistic privilege.
...This necessitated a process where all items had…

Kyle Matthews

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 10:29:54 +1300

Unless he witnessed the crime, that holds little water. Getting information from someone else is not a crime. If he had videoed an assault, yes, the police would ask for a copy of the recording – they wouldn’t confiscate the phone (unlike American cop shows).

The warrant wasn't to investigate…

Sofie Bribiesca

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 10:19:21 +1300

So I don’t know if 5 officers for ten hours is unusual or not. I wouldn’t have too much difficulty believing that it’s not.

I’ve had a few searches in my time. Once it was 4 cops ,2 were D’s, 2 were plain uniforms. If memory serves well, They were…

Rosemary McDonald

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 10:15:24 +1300

Yep. Got my attention. The ladies had a ball....obviously making Gentle Jim squirm with their left-wing offensive. You go girls.

As for Natrad's new interviewing style....classic example was this morning's interview with Sue Henry from the Housing Lobby. http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player/20152583

Sue Henry knows her stuff. She obviously has a very good…

Dylan Reeve

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 10:10:18 +1300

Also, no offence, but “I don’t know anything about this subject area, so everyone else must be equally ignorant” is kinda patronising and offensive.

I have not seen anyone in the media, or even here or on Twitter, claim to have any actual knowledge. I've not seen anyone suggest what…

Keir Leslie

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 09:56:12 +1300

Ultimately I think any claims about how excessive or unreasonable the action was are basically baseless given how little anyone outside the case knows of the specifics of the event, and how little we generally know about what’s typical for police in such a scenario.

But equally, you have no…

Sofie Bribiesca

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 09:52:43 +1300

Tuesday afternoon’s Panel on RNZ with Dita de Boni and Penny Ashton was a blow for sanity

Will go find that. Thanks, Ashton is one of my Family names and de Boni impresses me more and more :)

Kyle Matthews

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 09:49:43 +1300

The e-receipt says in part:

“All money will go to Nicky Hager to support any legal case or to cover any costs incurred as a result of the police raid.

And…

Did you know 100% of what you donate gets through to your cause on Givealittle.

I’m confident that it’s…

Dylan Reeve

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 09:44:42 +1300

Could someone explain to me just what protection being a journalist gives you? I understand there is something around not revealing your sources.

It's governed by Section 68 of the Evidence Act – I'm not a lawyer but I don't see a reading that would prevent police to executing a…

Dylan Reeve

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 09:34:02 +1300

Serious question: can anyone figure out why the police were there for 10 hours ?

Hager’s not a materialistic guy, so I assume he’s got an average-size house. Let’s assume two bedrooms, lounge, kitchen, bathroom and his office. So six rooms, for argument’s sake.

There is no way it’d take…

Sofie Bribiesca

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 09:27:13 +1300

but a formal policy of compulsory reading might be hard.

We had "Lord of the Flies" and "Shakespeare" which when looking, one could see similarities. Also,Jack disagrees here, but I think 15 yr olds would be a worthy audience.It is then that the Hager books would have a powerful lesson…

Dylan Reeve

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 09:25:24 +1300

I’m neither left wing nor right, but I confess I don’t see Slater as a journalist, regardless of what the judge said. If 5 policemen spent 10 hours in his home, taking everything they could find, yes I would call it excessive unless their warrant cited as grounds that there…

Andrew C

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 09:20:08 +1300

Could someone explain to me just what protection being a journalist gives you? I understand there is something around not revealing your sources.

Does this simply mean that you cannot be forced to TELL the police/courts, or is it more than that? For example can the police get a warrant…

Rob Hosking

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 09:18:07 +1300

It was the police who used the word, just so you know, so we can probably assume it to be technically correct.

We haven't actually heard from the cops. We've heard Hager say they said he is a witness, and I accept that they used that word, but it seems…

Ian Dalziel

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 08:44:04 +1300

scatterbrained reaction...
I’m entirely willing to have my ignorance dispelled
I have carefully dis-spelled your 'my ignorance'
and I get the following:
– Corny enigma
– Coring enyma
– Mincey groan

and of course
– Come in angry
– My nice organ!

play on...

:- )

nzlemming

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 07:53:40 +1300

Gordon Campbell's comments on the raid, and Key's appointment of Finlayson as a buffer are worth reading

Ian Dalziel

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 07:35:06 +1300

Tuesday afternoon's Panel on RNZ with Dita de Boni and Penny Ashton was a blow for sanity – Jim Mora seemed to be on the back foot a bit as they roundly lambasted the Hager house raid and much, much more – I hope they are allowed back!

I also…

nzlemming

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 07:24:43 +1300

This use of the word ‘witness’ to characterise Hager’s role: really?

Because – without necessarily buying into the whole ‘receiver of stolen property’ thing – it seems to me that to characterise Hager’s role in all this as just a witness does quite a bit of damage to the English…

nzlemming

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 07:23:28 +1300

Today's Herald cartoon

Rob Hosking

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 07:00:43 +1300

This use of the word 'witness' to characterise Hager's role: really?

Because – without necessarily buying into the whole 'receiver of stolen property' thing – it seems to me that to characterise Hager's role in all this as just a witness does quite a bit of damage to the English…

nzlemming

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 06:44:55 +1300

I haven’t seen the wider context of this tweet, but apparently Police claimed something about it having taken that long because he was being given the right to claim journalistic privilege, whatever that means.

That link has a rogue 'g' in it. Should be this

mark taslov

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 03:24:17 +1300

so basically just stealing all his stuff, lawfully.

That’s exactly how I described it to my better half.

every experience in my life with police suggests they are much simpler than that.

Yep. The salt granule is that Dylan has never been party to a search warrant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WseRJMQf1U

tussock

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 02:53:28 +1300

So, speaking of the police raiding the guy who wrote a book that seriously inconvenienced the political aspirations of the previous minister of police, who had obviously had a part in appointing our most senior police officers, often photographed with them touting the new powers she'd given them ...

Wouldn't…

mark taslov

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 02:41:28 +1300

For sure DeepRed, casual collaboration is the essence. I know all too well where Chris is coming from here. In this and many instances it is he and others functioning as the voice of reason. This voice of reason in turn facilitates the extremists pulling back and consolidating their lines.…

Kumara Republic

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 01:56:02 +1300

The market place of ideas is no place for prohibition.

Neither should it be a place for commercial monopolies.

Kumara Republic

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 01:49:56 +1300

Hager's not a materialistic guy, so I assume he's got an average-size house. Let's assume two bedrooms, lounge, kitchen, bathroom and his office. So six rooms, for argument's sake.

He's a trained builder, so he would have saved big.

Kumara Republic

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 01:49:09 +1300

As I've commented before this is a pretty good litmus test for those 4th estate entities that see themselves as genuine news organisations or are happy to be in the pay of the National Party/WO smear machine.

The MSM score so far (not including those directly responsible for Dirty Politics):…

izogi

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 00:41:16 +1300

Serious question: can anyone figure out why the police were there for 10 hours ?

I haven't seen the wider context of this tweet, but apparently Police claimed something about it having taken that long because he was being given the right to claim journalistic privilege, whatever that means.

izogi

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 00:35:47 +1300

It can be if you like. Just tick the box.

I see there's a voucher system, which would also help to avoid tracking of credit card details for anyone who cares about that. Is there anywhere out there which sells GiveALittle.co.nz vouchers in exchange for cash? The FAQ doesn't seem…

nzlemming

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 00:30:57 +1300

Why so long ?

Sekrit panels...

Grant McDougall

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 00:03:30 +1300

Serious question: can anyone figure out why the police were there for 10 hours ?

Hager's not a materialistic guy, so I assume he's got an average-size house. Let's assume two bedrooms, lounge, kitchen, bathroom and his office. So six rooms, for argument's sake.

There is no way it'd take…

Chris Waugh

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 23:54:37 +1300

Marc, while I generally agree with you, I find your hyperbole to be considerably less than helpful. Here's an example of how things happen in a real authoritarian state. You may also like to think about how it is you can post comments like yours here without them disappearing and…

mark taslov

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 23:39:36 +1300

full metal catholic

The best kind:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtLvlaGJJEU

nzlemming

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 23:30:45 +1300

Yes. Still I wasn’t bought up in Jesusland for 16 years without knowing this.

"As long as you do it to these, the least of my brethren, you do it unto me."

I lasted 2 years longer than you, full metal catholic as well. Very handy when debating evolution with…

Jack Harrison

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 22:18:10 +1300

Yes. Still I wasn’t bought up in Jesusland for 16 years without knowing this.
"That you can’t like the fact that someone you don’t know has died in a car crash and you are so moved by it you express delight in it.”

nzlemming

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 22:14:18 +1300

A true human does not write the headline , “Feral dies in greymouth, did world a favour.

Fixed that for you

Jack Harrison

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 22:09:04 +1300

Yes smashing people is a thrill for some. It's a roll kind of thing.

Dean Wallis

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 22:07:48 +1300

A true christian does not write the headline , “Feral dies in greymouth, did world a favour.”

With religion to one side for a moment, I would say that the quote was written by a person "boldly empowered" – the type of coward that rushes forward and gets a couple…

Jack Harrison

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 22:07:23 +1300

The right wing blogs always love the idea of clarity into affairs, the truth of sunlight. This book is a sunlight into a dark place , but of course its them.

mark taslov

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 22:00:25 +1300

When people stay quiet, shut their doors behind themselves, and choose not to take sides, we have the authoritarian system succeeding. And that tells me, it is time to be seriously concerned, and to take a stand.

The market place of ideas is no place for prohibition.

Thomas Jefferson argued…

mark taslov

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 21:57:20 +1300

People seem pretty complacent. It is also proving to be the only way to show Team Key for who they are and their complicit behaviour.

Customarily I’m deeply skeptical about the motivations of anyone who takes it upon themselves to defend the all powerful state apparatus. “If one would give…

Jack Harrison

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 21:46:31 +1300

A true christian does not write the headline , "Feral dies in greymouth, did world a favour."

izogi

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 21:43:54 +1300

No problem with that.

Sofie's comment just reminded me of the specific public school I attended, which was sadly the type of school where lots of kids were there because their parents had conveniently arranged for them to be in zone instead of because they necessarily cared about being there.…

Jack Harrison

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 21:42:37 +1300

"Feral dies in Greymouth, did world a favour" – If that was your son? What would you do?

In America that blogsite would be so shamed that it would have folded.

This started this whole thing?

nzlemming

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 21:42:09 +1300

So the victim(s) are left wing, the journalist is Slater, everything else is basically the same – are we still holding the same position? Slater isn’t being charged, but his communication with the hacker are being investigated as he’s a material witness.

I'm neither left wing nor right, but I…

nzlemming

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 21:36:00 +1300

…although I think the stolen hard drive that Slater received would be. Although I don’t think it was proven that it was stolen.

Apparently a filing cabinet full of documents as well

Jack Harrison

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 21:12:12 +1300

I guess I mean Adult media types, maybe its hard to read about your own industry, it is hard and usually not career rewarding but it needs to be explained.

Don't dump it on the kids.

izogi

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 21:09:07 +1300

I’d like it compulsory reading in high school along with Hollow Men.People seem pretty complacent.

That'll be a tough one to get past some of the parents.

Keir Leslie

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 21:06:22 +1300

it’s unreasonable to assume the worst.

Why is it unreasonable to assume the worst? These are literally the people that brought us the Red Devils case, the various botched murder investigations over the past 25 years, the Urewera Raids, the Kim Dotcom raid, breaking kids' faces at parties, etc. etc.…

Sofie Bribiesca

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 20:50:55 +1300

Yes ,I'd like it compulsory reading in high school along with Hollow Men.People seem pretty complacent. It is also proving to be the only way to show Team Key for who they are and their complicit behaviour. Sadly I've never liked or trusted them and if history is indeed showing…

Sacha

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 20:44:27 +1300

the journalist is Slater

not buying it

mark taslov

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 20:43:19 +1300

If Hager had been around when the search warrant had been executed, the police would have been able to demand from him the access keys to the cloud storage where he would have put anything he really didn’t want them to find. But they raided him when he was absent…

Jack Harrison

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 20:34:06 +1300

I just want everyone to re-read the book. There's headline after headline in there.

It's a dump.

Sofie Bribiesca

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 20:31:56 +1300

We live in hope Jack. Still, once law is changed, we then need to repeal . That takes a lot of time assuming all Parties will want that.

Sacha

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 20:28:22 +1300

Rawshark said on Twitter the relevant penalty was 7 years jail.

Ian Dalziel

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 20:26:41 +1300

Now we have the NZ government about to announce that they will send soldiers to Iraq, to support allies in the fight against IS.
So wrong...

NZ needs to be the voice of reason
and the face of acceptance,
the arms of support,
not just another
combatant.

Isn't that what…

Jack Harrison

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 20:25:30 +1300

You know what dirty means in the title. The way that everyone is expendable for their political motives. It’s their words, unguarded, natural but dirty as a mafia sting or a shakespeare play. Hager didn’t write a book, he tried to make sense of a string of a dirtily worded…

Russell Brown

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 20:25:28 +1300

…although I think the stolen hard drive that Slater received would be. Although I don’t think it was proven that it was stolen.

No, not proven. But Justice Asher ventured that that seemed to be the case in his decision.

mark taslov

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 20:23:16 +1300

Fixed that for ya:

I’m trying to look at the most basic facts while ignoring the context.

Bart Janssen

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 20:22:00 +1300

over your head there

Above sand level then ...

Bart Janssen

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 20:17:12 +1300

Are the newspapers, tv and radio really going to turn a blind eye to this?

As I've commented before this is a pretty good litmus test for those 4th estate entities that see themselves as genuine news organisations or are happy to be in the pay of the National Party/WO…

Jack Harrison

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 20:12:34 +1300

Yes, information. Say I supply information on Deep Red and use it strategically to screw him publicly (slander). Deep Red may suddenly wonder, “How the fuck did he know that”?

So information was supplied to Deep Red that I was being fed his information by the government. Deep Red is…

Dylan Reeve

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 20:11:50 +1300

In any case, there are times when the law has to be bent for the greater good. Especially when those entrusted to maintain the law think it’s not illegal when the President’s doing it.

In general I'd rather have that law bending take place in a court, not at the…

Dylan Reeve

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 20:09:49 +1300

Your constant harping on ‘we’ ignores that you could well be addressing people who, for all you know, may well be better informed about a number of aspects of this case and its background than you are. Yet you continue to offer yourself as some kind of paragon of virtuous…

Rex Widerstrom

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 20:07:34 +1300

Seriously though the police [are] too willing to be biddable.

FIFY.

Not getting at you personally Terry, but I've had things said and done to me that leave me without a shadow of a doubt that the Police are entirely biddable by their political masters, and that a damaging and…

Dylan Reeve

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 20:07:33 +1300

The thing about “normal” is that a reasonably large number of people are familiar with it. As things stand, this appears pretty extreme, if not a first of its kind. Perhaps it really is “the new normal”, in which case we should be starting to think about a revolution, not…

Joe Wylie

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 20:06:40 +1300

The thing is – we have no context at all for how usual or unusual this is. We don’t know what items the police believed they were looking for, what processes were used during that search, whether all officers were involved for the whole time, what downtime there was.
Your…

Dylan Reeve

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 20:06:20 +1300

Here's a hypothetical...

It's 2020, Labour are nearing the end of the first term in power. Whale Oil, who is somehow still active, publishes an extensive series of articles based on hacked emails and chat transcripts between Labour MPs and various Union leaders and some left wing bloggers/commentators that raise…

Kumara Republic

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 20:01:57 +1300

In any case, there are times when the law has to be bent for the greater good. Especially when those entrusted to maintain the law think it's not illegal when the President's doing it.

Trevor Nicholls

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 19:59:20 +1300

The thing is – we have no context at all for how usual or unusual this is.

The thing about "normal" is that a reasonably large number of people are familiar with it. As things stand, this appears pretty extreme, if not a first of its kind. Perhaps it really…

Dylan Reeve

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 19:51:40 +1300

If I had five bucks for every numbskull right-winger who’s demanded on the internet today that Hager be prosecuted for “receiving stolen property” …

I believe that idea was explored a little by some lawyerly types at the time of the publication, but it was generally considered that the data…

oga

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 19:51:36 +1300

I've just been reading this fascinating look into cults/cultists, and I can't help but think of the National party and its followers when I read this passage:
__As Freud said, the pattern of these kinds of social groupings is always the same, At the center is a charismatic narcissist who…

Dylan Reeve

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 19:49:03 +1300

Unless he witnessed the crime, that holds little water. Getting information from someone else is not a crime.

From the point of view of the investigation he has acknowledged that he communicated with the hacker and that he received a USB stick from the hacker. Both those thing (the communications…

Kumara Republic

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 19:45:11 +1300

Just any suspicion of actively supporting organisations that oppose governments and systems in place is enough to label one a "terrorist" or "sympathiser". The recent raids in Australia were also over the top, and only one alleged islamist extremist was charged – upon raids by 800 police and so.

Sadly,…

Joe Wylie

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 19:41:51 +1300

If I had five bucks for every numbskull right-winger who’s demanded on the internet today that Hager be prosecuted for “receiving stolen property” …

Then there were all those fine minds being exercised back in the Hollow Men era over the materiality or otherwise of Brash's emails. My favourite was…

Jack Harrison

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 19:37:07 +1300

Slater was the scoop. One writer uncovering the source of power of another writer.

That power was fueled by Government contacts. It was an outrageous attempt at feeding the media the Government line, an outrageous attempt to place key distraction stories into headlines and an outrageous attempt at becoming the…

nzlemming

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 19:35:39 +1300

And, just because this is today's thread, there is no surplus after all

Colour me surprised. #not

Russell Brown

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 19:34:58 +1300

Unless he witnessed the crime, that holds little water. Getting information from someone else is not a crime.

If I had five bucks for every numbskull right-winger who's demanded on the internet today that Hager be prosecuted for "receiving stolen property" ...

Jack Harrison

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 19:30:29 +1300

They could be out in 36 months.

Ian Dalziel

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 19:29:58 +1300

matter, the facts of...
So what has that to do with Hager?
He likely has material evidence of the crime.
Que?
That he had access to the source of the content of his book is not in dispute.
So you can't mean that sort of 'material'.

To my way of…

Sofie Bribiesca

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 19:28:55 +1300

Key and his government know, the opposition are licking their wounds, so it is the best time to use the momentum and create irreversible facts in policy and decision making.

Nah Key won the Election and that was the time everything was /is put in to place to carry through…

Jack Harrison

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 19:27:39 +1300

John Key in all honesty wants to find rawshark. It looks good and will put off another rawshark.

nzlemming

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 19:21:49 +1300

He likely has material evidence of the crime.

Unless he witnessed the crime, that holds little water. Getting information from someone else is not a crime. If he had videoed an assault, yes, the police would ask for a copy of the recording – they wouldn't confiscate the phone (unlike…

Jack Harrison

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 19:17:14 +1300

The book needs to be reread by journalists. Outside the election fire of 2014. It's not a good enough to see this book as trivial. The book basically shows you how to corrupt headlines and create diversions. It also shows you how to hurt folk the most, screw around with…

Marc C

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 19:12:24 +1300

I was only trying to be "positive" in times deserving serious consideration on where we are heading. One must never give up to fight for freedoms, democratic and other rights according to the Rule of Law.

Yes, I admit, the Tuhoe – Urewera raids under Helen's government were a very…

Sofie Bribiesca

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 19:08:01 +1300

It can be if you like. Just tick the box.

Ok ta. Sooo should it be in the Cayman Islands? ;) Don't want Nicky being prosecuted for "proceeds of the witnessing.

Dylan Reeve

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 19:06:37 +1300

So what has that to do with Hager?

He likely has material evidence of the crime.

I don't think the law does (or should) give journalists an outright exemption from police searches, but all reasonable protections under law should be explored properly in court.

Kracklite

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 19:06:20 +1300

One can hope for it to be as bungled as the Dotcom raid. You can never underestimate the sheer stupidity of the police sometimes – an anarchist friend of mine had a good chortle over cops sniffing around their ground asking who their leader was.

However the point is intimidation.…

nzlemming

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 19:02:40 +1300

I guess the difference is knowledge and intent?

The people who steal and leak information already know what they have. In the case of this hacker it seems more likely that the discovery of material with journalistic merit was a byproduct of the theft, not the reason for it.

So…

nzlemming

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 18:59:54 +1300

Is this anonymous?

If you want it to be.

Marc C

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 18:57:37 +1300

I was trying to be "positive" in times of negative news and developments. One must never give up, especially when it comes to defending rights, freedom of speech and democracy. Excessive use of search and surveillance, like happened with Hager and his family, is a breach of rights, for sure,…

nzlemming

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 18:52:35 +1300

I think John Key has a mental typo – Lord of the Files indeed!

Gold.

Alfie

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 18:50:37 +1300

has it been verified that the account holder is genuine and that Nicky is certain to receive the full benefit?

The e-receipt says in part: "All money will go to Nicky Hager to support any legal case or to cover any costs incurred as a result of the police raid.…

Joe Wylie

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 18:49:23 +1300

In the case of this hacker it seems more likely that the discovery of material with journalistic merit was a byproduct of the theft, not the reason for it.

The claim at the time Dirty Politics was published was that the hacker was motivated by disgust at Slater’s attack on…

Marc C

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 18:43:59 +1300

Chris, of course things are not quite that bad (as yet), but even in places I mentioned, disliked or hated dissenters, who write revealing books about what really goes on, were also not tortured and killed in most cases, especially if they were well known to the public.

Intimidation has…

Joe Wylie

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 18:43:19 +1300

In the real world, New Zealand has a very long way to go until it reaches even Singaporean levels of authoritarianism.

True dat. While it can seem like something from a more innocent age in terms of the more recent revelations about online surveillance, the public misgivings about Singapore Telecom’s…

Jack Harrison

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 18:37:35 +1300

That’s fine as long as the perpetrator is prepared to accept the consequences should they be caught.

That's so hard to say to someone sitting on issues of national importance.

Dylan Reeve

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 18:37:08 +1300

most “unofficial” information will be “stolen” to some degree. It annoys me seeing one or two journalists whove made great use of leaks in the past seeming to forget that.

I guess the difference is knowledge and intent?

The people who steal and leak information already know what they have.…

Sofie Bribiesca

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 18:35:19 +1300

That’s fine as long as the perpetrator is prepared to accept the consequences should they be caught.

I should be able to help the public. Honesty is your best policy and sometimes you break a few eggs. In the public interest of information is a law unto itself . Deemed…

Jack Harrison

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 18:34:10 +1300

It’s not amateur, they got caught by a hacker. They were quite skilled and professional really. They played the media like a violin.

Russell Brown

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 18:31:40 +1300

Is this anonymous?

It can be if you like. Just tick the box.

Chris Waugh

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 18:29:49 +1300

Yeah, y'know, I was nodding along in agreement with you until this:

This is stuff that would have happened in places like East Germany until 1989, like in some Latin American former dictatorships, this is what goes on in such countries in some places still now, but I feared the…

Sofie Bribiesca

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 18:24:51 +1300

If you’d like to help Nicky Hager with legal costs related to the search and action he has begun to retrieve his materials, there’s a GiveALittle fund.

Is this anonymous?

Jack Harrison

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 18:23:08 +1300

What has Rawshark shown us and if they hadn’t what would of happened? What media would we have seen?

Russell Brown

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 18:21:32 +1300

Good for Rawshark. Based on what happened with The Hollow Men material and the material taken or leaked from Shandwick – the pr firm dealing with GM clients – in Nicky Hager’s other books, he or she is looking reasonably safe.

I take Hager at his word that this is…

Jack Harrison

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 18:20:49 +1300

The scary thought is that these never got hacked. What stage would Collins/ Ede/Slater and co be on now. That’s chilling.

Sofie Bribiesca

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 18:06:42 +1300

It is time to stand up, people, and reclaim your democracy, or else it will be lost forever

It already is, cant you see that? Whilst nice to see you are now disillusioned, this had been heading this way for the last 6 years and under Labour ,they bought into…

Tinakori

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 18:04:22 +1300

Good for Rawshark. Based on what happened with The Hollow Men material and the material taken or leaked from Shandwick – the pr firm dealing with GM clients – in Nicky Hager's other books, he or she is looking reasonably safe.

Ian Dalziel

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 18:02:35 +1300

cry uncle…
And if it were found that the same person instigated the DDoS attack at around the same time then that could be Damaging or interfering with computer system which is also up to seven years.
If the hacker were caught and found to be in possession of software…

Dean Wallis

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 18:00:43 +1300

But it’s seriously ridiculous for anyone to be saying they know how better police time should be spent with no information at all on how it actually is spent.

Sorry, a poor argument. It is like saying that Nazi Germany wasn't that bad because we don't know "exactly" what they…

Joe Wylie

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 17:59:14 +1300

Oh god, we’re not going into a 9/11 Truth hole here are we?

Ian's point clearly went right over your head there.

Katharine Moody

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 17:59:14 +1300

If you’d like to help Nicky Hager with legal costs related to the search and action he has begun to retrieve his materials, there’s a GiveALittle fund.

Great idea – has it been verified that the account holder is genuine and that Nicky is certain to receive the full benefit?…

Tinakori

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 17:58:12 +1300

It could apply to either if that was their excuse but I was responding to Bart Hansen who said that the person who nicked Whaleoil's email archive was doing it for the public good. I said that's fine as long as you accept the possible consequences.

Russell Brown

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 17:56:48 +1300

If the police chose not to investigate this high-profile case what precedent would that set?

Could you point me to the people in the thread who are saying the complaint shouldn't have been investigated? You keep saying this.

You implied this kind of police action against Hager was business as…