Cracker by Damian Christie

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Cracker: Cup of Tea and a new Electoral System

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  • Joe Wylie,

    At which point they were socially discredited?

    Heh. While it's so long ago now that many of the names and details are no longer to hand, the hero of Knapp's undoing was a rather singular schoolteacher who sailed with his family on a yacht from the UK and settled in Whangarei. He smelt a rat with his school's business dealings with Knapp's company and kept digging. As I recall, he summed up Knapp's downfall with words to the effect of, if Knapp & Co. hadn't initially attempted to fob him off as a provincial idiot, things would probably have been fine.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4593 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler,

    I hope that come the referendum, people will remember the British example. And not remember it in the muddled way Peter Shirtcliffe seems to be interpreting it

    And they're still denying that Scotland and Wales have MMP. MMP with regional lists, yes, but MMP nonetheless:

    "It is not known yet whether the proposed system would include top-up list MPs as in the Scottish Parliament and the National Assembly for Wales but it is clear Britain doesn't want New Zealand-style MMP," [Hunt] said.

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3215 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Stewart,

    it is clear Britain doesn't want New Zealand-style MMP," [Hunt] said.

    I'm not sure how they can tell that without, well, asking.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2105 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen Judd,

    Major C. H. Douglas was convinced of an international jewish banking conspiracy (ahead of his time perhaps).

    what

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 3122 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    And they're still denying that Scotland and Wales have MMP. MMP with regional lists, yes, but MMP nonetheless:

    This is really getting odd. Graeme Hunt's not a stupid man -- I can't fathom why he'd continue to say something so demonstrably untrue, even to further his cause.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell,

    I've long thought that the best thing that the change to MMP gave us was unintended, it sort of gave the public a chance to shake up the snowglobe a bit - it gave a bunch of fl.../people (Roger Douglas is a great example, another is Jim Anderton) whose politics and their party's had drifted apart permission, and the ability, to jump ship and follow their muses .... I think we need to find a way to make it happen every generation or so

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2623 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    --Major C. H. Douglas was convinced of an international jewish banking conspiracy (ahead of his time perhaps).__

    what

    I trust Andre didn't mean that the way it reads. Perhaps he can clarify.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    I was intrigued by Cameron's comment on the news tonight (the Joint News Conference)
    - along the lines of -
    "This is a new era in British government which will look out for the interests of the country, not the party." </loose recreation of quote I can't find..>
    but... but... oh!

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7953 posts Report Reply

  • Sam F,

    I trust Andre didn't mean that the way it reads. Perhaps he can clarify.

    Presumably a wry reference to Douglas' Social Credit appearing in 1924 (as per the Wiki link), which was some time before Hitler and the Nazis? My best guess.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1611 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    I assume so, although it should be noted that even that doesn't predate the international Jewish banking conspiracy.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Where's HORansome when we need some scholarly insight?

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Stewart,

    I assume so, although it should be noted that even that doesn't predate the international Jewish banking conspiracy.

    The international Jewish banking conspiracy theory pretty much predates *banking*, at least if you consider it linked to the pre-Crusade pogroms/shake-downs of the late eleventh century, which were premised along much the same lines.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2105 posts Report Reply

  • Tom Semmens,

    This is really getting odd. Graeme Hunt's not a stupid man -- I can't fathom why he'd continue to say something so demonstrably untrue

    There is that small tenent of right wing faith in this country, the "moral obligation to lie" if it serves the higher purpose.

    Sevilla, Espana • Since Nov 2006 • 2217 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie,

    There is that small tenent of right wing faith in this country . . .

    Like, most rightwingers happily believe that there's really a little person inside every iPod?

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4593 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    and founder Major C. H. Douglas was convinced of an international jewish banking conspiracy (ahead of his time perhaps).

    I don't think that nasty permutation of Jew-hatred was ahead of anyone's time during Douglas' life.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Zach Bagnall,

    I do however actually feel grateful that first past the post kept those loons away from the levers of power.

    My UK native flatmate is highly skeptical of proportional representation apparently because she's afraid of the influence fringe (but increasingly well organised) parties like the BNP will have on policy if given fair representation.

    Colorado • Since Nov 2006 • 121 posts Report Reply

  • Damian Christie,

    That's interesting Zach. We're lucky in the sense that our racist fringe only extends as far as New Zealand First and, some might say, the Maori Party (or elements therein).

    If you look at the makeup in England however, it's hard to see anyone other than the Lib Dems holding the balance of power for the timebeing, which could give them disproportionate power. Here with our 'winning' major party traditionally getting pretty close to 50%, it only needs a much more fringe party to push them into power.

    I'd make a couple of points about the BNP. If they represent the views of enough people, then we have to give them a voice in Parliament. That's fundamental. But if Labour and the Conservatives have even the slightest bit of moral fibre, they should both refuse in advance to even consider dealing with them.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 1164 posts Report Reply

  • Rich Lock,

    Hmmm. Thinking out loud, perhaps if the BNP actually had a shot at a very small number of seats under an alternative system, they might attract a number of the flakier elements (some of the Earl Grey Teabaggers, for example) away from the Conservative party, in much the same way as UKIP has attracted a number of the flakier Eurosceptics.

    This might allow the more centrist factions the opportunity to clean house and get their party firmly back on some sort of sane course.

    back in the mother countr… • Since Feb 2007 • 2728 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    We're lucky in the sense that our racist fringe only extends as far as New Zealand First and, some might say, the Maori Party (or elements therein).

    Given recent events, you might have to extend that to elements in National - sentiment reflected by whatever internal spin-doctor approved that deliberately-crafted utterance, to say nothing of the cheeky whitey who delivered it.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Oh, and of course the fearful ninnies who canned the inclusion of Te Urewera in the settlement with Tuhoe.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • Richard Dearden,

    Zach's flatmate need not worry about proportional representation as at present it looks like the referendum will be about whether to change the system to alternative voting (or preferential voting as it's called in the rest of the world). The odds of the BNP winning a seat are probably lower under PV than FPP.

    The dilemma now is, if what you want is proportional representation (by whatever scheme), how do you vote in a referendum between AV and FPP?

    Birmingham, UK • Since Jul 2008 • 9 posts Report Reply

  • recordari,

    The dilemma now is, if what you want is proportional representation (by whatever scheme), how do you vote in a referendum between AV and FPP?

    We seem to have two threads on this discussion.

    Just linked to this on the Chip and Dip thread.

    AUCKLAND • Since Dec 2009 • 2607 posts Report Reply

  • David Hood,

    Since it is probably going to be used as an argument by those promoting abandoning MMP in the course of the campaign, I note Bad Sciences posting on government debt and countries with strong political parties.
    blog link
    Which basically shows that strong one party government does not lead to fiscal responsibility.

    Dunedin • Since May 2007 • 1445 posts Report Reply

  • recordari,

    Which basically shows that strong one party government does not lead to fiscal responsibility.

    I'd like to see Singapore on that graph.

    AUCKLAND • Since Dec 2009 • 2607 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler,

    The dilemma now is, if what you want is proportional representation (by whatever scheme), how do you vote in a referendum between AV and FPP?

    You vote for AV. And then push for a change to multi-member electorates in the future, when it won't seem like such a big deal, 'cos people are used to voting with numbers instead of ticks.

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3215 posts Report Reply

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