@jb – yeah I was more referring to the commentators running around like headless chooks etc, "it's been three days and we don't have a Government yet....arrrrrghhh!" rather than the pollies themselves. They all behaved, as one might expect, with quiet dignity.

Or possibly sleep-deprived shock, which is much the…

Not really.

Finding enough overlap between fairly disparate election platforms, forming a government and setting out a working timetable within 3 days is pretty good going

.

@jb – yeah I was more referring to the commentators running around like headless chooks etc, "it's been three days and we don't have…

...nasty little prions.

Perhaps we could privatise these prions?

...watch here as Hall & Oates deliver an impassioned plea for privatising the prison surveillance system...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anLfoy2XsFw

from wikipedia with (my additions)

Pri(s)ons are hypothesized to infect and propagate by refolding abnormally into a structure which is able to convert…

Plenty of older National members have long campaigned internally for a review of MMP, I imagine their long efforts were in part responsible for the review and referendum, not just so called rich elites.

Thank you, Ben — that was shorter, and much more polite, than my response to Steve.…

two words immediately came to mind: Prince Philip.

Exactly what I thought.

The limit on the Exclusive Brethren campaigning for a National election victory is $0.

However, slagging the Greens – priceless

the 869 residents of Great Barrier island getting a Super City Councillor while the voters of the North Shore must number 120,000 to get a Councillor

I believe you're confusing Councillors with Local Board members – and those numbers don't seem right in any case. The situation is bad enough…

there's no way we would eat that kind of sawdust ersatz esrtwhile brain-

Bad brains, riddled with nasty little prions.

Okarito Free Repubblic – you do have to live here, or be an intimate partner, or, best, be whanau ki whanau, before you are a member (tho' there are…

the sovereign integrity of New Zealand is something worth a civil insurrection to protect

Huh?

People have rights, not nations. If Tuhoe wanted to set up their own nation in their rohe, then why not? NZ used to rule Samoa, but stopped.

There's plenty of scope for Maori to take…

maybe less wine, and more crackers...

Mine was enough to fit in a spaghetti dish with the red wine etc so now, dinner. :)

I do agree the 'cannibalism' thing was a media beat up.

Stupid thing to say though.

Half expected this to serve Key's head on a platter to the opposition. They should be having him for breakfast, but they seem intend on eating public sentiment. Personally I'd take him with a…

cannibalism' thing was a media beat up

I suggest Key et al have an unsophisticated (ie intelligent :)
weak, pointless sense of humour which, is powerful because, a gaffe is a gaffe and newsworthy. Shit, look at the papers today and a large majority are spouting crap. Key always exposes…

The idea that "having someone for dinner" literally means that is pretty weak.

And if he'd said "having someone for dinner" you might have a point. What he said was:

__'The good news was that I was having dinner with Ngati Porou as opposed to their neighbouring iwi, which is…

Finding enough overlap between fairly disparate election platforms, forming a government and setting out a working timetable within 3 days is pretty good going,

Better than pretty good — I don't know about you, but William Hague is looking to me like he'd rather be in bed than Washington right…

...get themselves into a flap these past few days..

Not really.

Finding enough overlap between fairly disparate election platforms, forming a government and setting out a working timetable within 3 days is pretty good going, given that Germany, the Poster Boys and Girls of MMP, took weeks to get agreement…

It takes little further thinking to connect their casual racism with the speaker, government and party that is behind them.

I thought the John Key/Cannibalism thing was a media beat up. If there was any racial angle to it, I thought that came from the media who jumped straight to…

Tariana's piece

Another important read, a considered explanation of the deep link between Tuhoe and Te Urewera – and the comments were way better than I expected.

Rushing off to have a long hot shower to get rid of any possible contact with this creature who tried to rort…

Going by the vote figures on the Herald's "Should Te Urewera be returned to Tuhoe?" (24% Yes, 76% No, when I last looked)

I voted for that and it hasn't changed all day.

What a surprise that Your Views and talkback are full of barking and whining.

Bunch of wankers…

Yvonne Tahana's article in today's Herald

Ae, recommended reading and concise. The Urewera situation is quite specific, and suggesting other iwi will re-litigate settlements and demand chunks of national park here or there is just dog-whistling. What a surprise that Your Views and talkback are full of barking and whining.

I was playing the "Sovereignty" card,

Indeed – and I think you know me well enough to believe that if I thought you were a bigot I'd say so straight out. My point is that I think there are are way too many people out there for whom "sovereignty" is…

And I want to be very careful about playing the racist card, but am I the only person who think there's more than a little high-pitched 'Yellow Peril' dog-whistling in the media over this?

No, you are not alone Craig :)
I listened to Mae Wang t'other night and frankly,…

1. Would allowing Chinese interests to purchase vast tracts of land from the Cryafar estate constitute ceding sovereign territory, if not then why not?

And I want to be very careful about playing the racist card, but am I the only person who think there's more than a little high-pitched…

Key is right to suspect that any hint of ceding the sovereign territory of New Zealand to any other state – new or existing – would trigger a Pakeha backlash

There are so many problems here.
1. Would allowing Chinese interests to purchase vast tracts of land from the Cryafar…

Difference is, he is (thankfully) not a party leader let alone the prime minister. And unless you can name some names and show some evidence I doubt his words would have had the involvement of any state-funded Labour PR lackeys either.

John Pagani is Phil Goff's media and strategic advisor,…

Key is right to suspect that any hint of ceding the sovereign territory of New Zealand to any other state – new or existing – would trigger a Pakeha backlash that would put democracy…

Smaller parties have no power unless the larger parties give it to them. National can quite comfortably run a minority government with assistance from a range of smaller parties. They could negotiate…

You might also want to extend that to elements in Labour — some of which are disturbingly close to Phil Goff, and ghost Chris Trotter's glue-huffing exercises in negrophobic fantasy fiction.

Craig, I agreed with you yesterday in no uncertain terms that Trotter's foaming rant is deplorable.

Difference is, he…

I couldn't help but wonder why I'm getting a tax cut when my government is presently obliged to run a fiscal deficit.

Would you stop being so bloody logical!…

Since it is probably going to be used as an argument by those promoting abandoning MMP in the course of the campaign, I note Bad Sciences posting on government debt and countries with strong political parties.

Fascinating. It's worth noting that NZ's place along the y axis is something of…

But if Labour and the Conservatives have even the slightest bit of moral fibre, they should both refuse in advance to even consider dealing with them.

Just as both National and Labour learned — eventually — from their bitter marriages of inconvenience with Winston Peters, that there are some dogs…

AV is flawed in my opinion and perhaps those flaws are equally as bad as FPTP however I've only done the most superficial of reading to justify my opinion and that is because I voted on the basis of electoral reform. I will need to do…

The dilemma now is, if what you want is proportional representation (by whatever scheme), how do you vote in a referendum between AV and FPP?

You vote for AV. And then push for a change to multi-member electorates in the future, when it won't seem like such a big deal,…

Which basically shows that strong one party government does not lead to fiscal responsibility.

I'd like to see Singapore on that graph.

The dilemma now is, if what you want is proportional representation (by whatever scheme), how do you vote in a referendum between AV and FPP?

We seem to have two threads on this discussion.

Just linked to this on the Chip and Dip thread.

We're lucky in the sense that our racist fringe only extends as far as New Zealand First and, some might say, the Maori Party (or elements therein).

Given recent events, you might have to extend that to elements in National – sentiment reflected by whatever internal spin-doctor approved that deliberately-crafted…

If you look at the makeup in England however, it's hard to see anyone other than the Lib Dems holding…

I do however actually feel grateful that first past the post kept those loons away from the levers of power.

My UK native flatmate is highly skeptical of proportional representation apparently because she's afraid of the influence fringe (but increasingly well organised) parties like the BNP will have on policy…

and founder Major C. H. Douglas was convinced of an international jewish banking conspiracy (ahead of his time perhaps).

I don't think that nasty permutation of Jew-hatred was ahead of anyone's time during Douglas' life.

There is that small tenent of right wing faith in this country . . .

Like, most rightwingers happily believe that there's really a little person inside every iPod?

This is really getting odd. Graeme Hunt's not a stupid man — I can't fathom why he'd continue to say something so demonstrably untrue

There is that small tenent of right wing faith in this country, the "moral obligation to lie" if it serves the higher purpose.

I assume so, although it should be noted that even that doesn't predate the international Jewish banking conspiracy.

The international Jewish banking conspiracy theory pretty much predates *banking*, at least if you consider it linked to the pre-Crusade pogroms/shake-downs of the late eleventh century, which were premised along much the…

I trust Andre didn't mean that the way it reads. Perhaps he can clarify.

Presumably a wry reference to Douglas' Social Credit appearing in 1924 (as per the Wiki link), which was some time before Hitler and the Nazis? My best guess.

--Major C. H. Douglas was convinced of an international jewish banking conspiracy (ahead of his time perhaps).__

what

I trust Andre didn't mean that the way it reads. Perhaps he can clarify.

And they're still denying that Scotland and Wales have MMP. MMP with regional lists, yes, but MMP nonetheless:

This is really getting odd. Graeme Hunt's not a stupid man — I can't fathom why he'd continue to say something so demonstrably untrue, even to further his cause.

Major C. H. Douglas was convinced of an international jewish banking conspiracy (ahead of his time perhaps).

what

it is clear Britain doesn't want New Zealand-style MMP," [Hunt] said.

I'm not sure how they can tell that without, well, asking.

I hope that come the referendum, people will remember the British example. And not remember it in the muddled way Peter Shirtcliffe seems to be interpreting it

And they're still denying that Scotland and Wales have MMP. MMP with regional lists, yes, but MMP nonetheless:

"It is not known yet…

At which point they were socially discredited?

Heh. While it's so long ago now that many of the names and details are no longer to hand, the hero of Knapp's undoing was a rather singular schoolteacher who sailed with his family on a yacht from the UK and settled in…

The Knapp brand was instantly snuffed when he was done for running a dodgy mystery envelope fundraising scheme.

At which point they were socially discredited?

Nick Clegg hardly seems like Winston Peters either

Nick Clegg is like SO much dishier than Winston...

Don't have time to go into their unusual economic theories, but their connections with the far-right League of Rights were always a bit of a worry.

They'd probably have fitted into phase one MMP quite happily. Just as ACT is today, and NZ First before them, they were a magnet…

When according to the polls and my own experience wandering the street with a microphone, a good number of us, maybe even a majority, favour dumping MMP (and the majority of them choosing to devolve to FPP).

At the present time I'm not sure asking teh peoplez is a good…

I love that we in New Zealand have adopted a condescending tone as we see the chaos caused by what we have come to expect since 1996 – no clear winner on election night.

Let's up-smug that tone. We have had a clear winner on election night, in three of…

A Labour/Social Credit government from 1981 may have actually stared down the Rogernomes..

They were already embedded in Treasury by then – but their ideas might have had a more public airing so that voters knew what they were actually getting in Douglas as Finance Minister and the other one…

kept those loons away from the levers of power

Don't know enough about the substance of their policies or representatives to characterise the party. In any case, under MMP they would have had to negotiate a coalition, and voters would have made different decisions anyway. The idea of a "protest…

In the 1981 general election Social Credit won 372,056,
20.65% of the total, up from 16.1% the one bfeore.

I do however actually feel grateful that first past the post kept those loons away from the levers of power.

So, Russell, I presume you consider the 1981-4 National Government,- elected…

I do however actually feel grateful that first past the post kept those loons away from the levers of power.

At the small cost of keeping Muldoon in power?

Put MMP to the Vote is recommending New Zealand voters adopt the supplementary member system, which will halve the number of list MPs and limit the power of minor parties to frustrate the will of the people.

What "people" exactly? What if I'm one of those…

don't read anything into the fact that I could post that within seconds

Heh. Quite

I do however actually feel grateful that first past the post kept those loons away from the levers of power.

As compared to some of the loons MMP has let in?

I do however actually feel grateful that first past the post kept those loons away from the levers of power.

The Alliance was generally ahead of Labour in 1994 – 95, before plummeting to 10% in the 1996 election.

Really? Interesting. Although perhaps I was being ambiguous (or just using the wrong word entirely), by 'polling parity' I sort of meant in an election. But your point still holds.

There were Social Credit and Bob Jones' New Zealand Party, both cited as good examples of injustice under FPP, but neither ever achieved polling parity with the big two.

The Alliance was generally ahead of Labour in 1994 – 95, before plummeting to 10% in the 1996 election.

A referendum against, however, is something I can't see as…

I can never remember her name tho' she wiped the floor with the 7Days crowd, and that was fun to watch.

Jacinda Ardern. And don't read anything into the fact that I could post that within seconds.

benevolent elders wearing white Grecian tunics

As opposed to malevolent elders wearing Grecian 2000 :D

my preference is actually to be ruled by a bunch of benevolent elders wearing white Grecian tunics

And they have to be low maintenance and walk everywhere, aannnddd they've got to be able to wear them well.

Something I cant see anyone, but Pita Sharples doing at the mo' or…