Up Front by Emma Hart

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Up Front: The Missionary Position

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  • Kyle Matthews,

    So buddhism is pro-prostitution, but anti-pimping?

    It really is a strange world.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Sounds like Buddhism and Catholicism have population increase as a common goal..

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19688 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    Reading back over that, I've probably come across a little harsh on Buddhism. Those are precepts to live by, not to make other people live by. But it is one thing that more than the Abrahamic religions seem to have in common, this fascination with right sex and wrong sex.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4650 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    And not using hands?

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19688 posts Report Reply

  • andin,

    That was a response to a supposed incompatibility between homosexuality and Catholicism, which is why Jesus' total lack of pronouncements on homosexuality might possibly be relevant.

    But the catholic church has a lot to say. And if you are going to divorce Jesus from the church whats the point.
    Point taken about buddhism, I am not that well versed in the its rules. I have only encountered the western varieties of it.

    I think Morgan was making the observation that science agrees that spirit is intangible. Which is literally true.

    I dont think the beast called science agrees then. Neuroscience tho is making inroads into explaining thissupposedly intangible called spirituality which so far looks to be a product of our minds. So maybe enmasse we should make an effort to accept this as a possibility.

    Sorry I cant continue this discussion as the computer is playing up,another time

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1882 posts Report Reply

  • Morgan Nichol,

    But the catholic church has a lot to say. And if you are going to divorce Jesus from the church whats the point.

    Seems to me that the central point of Christianity is loving Jesus and believing he's the son of God, and God.

    So perhaps our dear friend loves teh Christ, and enjoys the sense of community or singing or whatever he gets from his church - even though their doctrine is un-christ-like, and not prima facie compatible with his sexuality.

    __ I think Morgan was making the observation that science agrees that spirit is intangible. Which is literally true.__

    I dont think the beast called science agrees then. Neuroscience tho is making inroads into explaining thissupposedly intangible called spirituality which so far looks to be a product of our minds. So maybe enmasse we should make an effort to accept this as a possibility.

    It was a play on words.

    Science, so far (and I predict: forever), says that everything about us, including love and joy and art and our sad predilections for magical thinking and invisible friends in the sky, come from the soup of chemicals in our heads. i.e. that the "spirit" doesn't really exist - at least as most people understand the word. (As more or less a synonym for "soul".)

    That's all.

    Auckland CBD • Since Nov 2006 • 314 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen Judd,

    I dont think the beast called science agrees then. Neuroscience tho is making inroads into explaining thissupposedly intangible called spirituality which so far looks to be a product of our minds. So maybe enmasse we should make an effort to accept this as a possibility.

    In that case, I think we are using the word "spirit" to mean different things. I suspect as is often the case on PA we are in fact in vehement agreement.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 3122 posts Report Reply

  • andin,

    Computer playing ball now.

    It was a play on words

    Oh right mebbe my spirit is impoverished, Oh thats right I starved it to death.

    we are in fact in vehement agreement.

    So does that mean I dont get banished to kiwiblog?

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1882 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    Neuroscience tho is making inroads into explaining this supposedly intangible called spirituality which so far looks to be a product of our minds

    That word spirituality seems to be one of those ambiguous jobs that really courses misunderstandings. Personally, I interpret its meaning as an umbrella that covers a bunch of mostly altruistic behaviors, that are the glue that hold us, a social animal, together.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4327 posts Report Reply

  • Rob Hosking,

    __I find a simple, fierce 'PISS OFF' will suffice.__


    Yeah, 'cos there's nothing people COLLECTING FOR CHARITY deserve more than a good shouting at.

    If you had read the comment more carefully you'd have noticed it was about being pestered by evangelicals of various types. Not about charridy at all.

    It seems to me that most religions seem to take three very distinct questions and bung them together.

    How did the world get here? What happens when we die? How should we live our lives?

    A threatening narrative is used to answer the first two questions[God made the world and he can unmake it again; follow a bunch of rules we just happen to have here or you'll burn forever] as a way of sort of enforcing the third.

    All the questions are tied up with issues of the meaning of life but they are quite separate.

    South Roseneath • Since Nov 2006 • 830 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    a bunch of mostly altruistic behaviors, that are the glue that hold us, a social animal, together

    As someone said upthread, I think you're talking about community.

    Spirituality to me is a connection with something bigger, including the natural world and the wonder that others have talked about. That can mean different things to each of us, and I don't think there's any problem saying that - unlike relativism in other areas.

    Spirituality is not religion and it is not a substitute for community, although it is often invoked as part of social enforcement mechanisms as Rob says.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19688 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca,

    Neuroscience tho is making inroads into explaining this supposedly intangible called spirituality which so far looks to be a product of our minds

    I often think about stuff of the mind. My small example being that when I was healing from my brain failure, I could hear a voice inside my head when trying to sleep at night (in itself being difficult)., I was able to finally work out,the voice was probably collected whilst in a coma and once I had worked it out, it faded away.Although, neurons were rebuilding, it felt like mind over matter therefore I didn't mind, it didn't matter :)

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    As someone said upthread, I think you're talking about community.

    How about if community is seen as bigger than our selves, and that the interdependent nature of human-beings depends on spirituality. For example, new born babies are completely dependent on love. Love being an array altruistic behaviors. Love is greater than our selves by virtue of the fact that we as a species depend on it absolutely, then reciprocate it, providing we develop and retain spiritual well being.

    What spirituality isn't, or maybe I could say lack of spirituality might look a bit like Robert mugabe, or perhaps the latest pope.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4327 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Actually I can see how love might be evidence of spirituality.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19688 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    I like that thrashed out saying: "if its not practical, then its not spiritual"

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4327 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    But love is very practical.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19688 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    I'd like it to be both, if that's ok.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19688 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    Sacha, I'd say it'd be ok.

    There could be a publishing opportunity in this. A manual of some sort, that makes sense of what spirituality is. It's surprising that popular mechanics hasn't covered it yet.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4327 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    I seem to recall something many years ago about motorcycle maintenance..

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19688 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    I was surprised by that manual having very little in it about motorcycle maintenance at all. It didn't even tell me how to fix a flat. From what I could tell, the zen way to fix a bike is just to do it, not read about it. Curious that it took hundreds of pages to say that.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10641 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Lucrative that it took enough pages to become a book as opposed to a pamphlet. Not a bad read. Gave me a better understanding of the mythologising of the yankee boomers, the side roads, the wind in the hair, the navel gazing.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19688 posts Report Reply

  • stephen walker,

    Buddhism and Homosexuality

    WHAT IS BUDDHISM?

    This is not an easy question to answer, because Buddhism is comprised of many systems of belief and practice, or what we call traditions. These traditions have developed in different times and different countries, and in some degree of isolation from each other. Each has developed distinctive features which to a casual observer might appear to be major differences. However, these differences are frequently merely cultural overlays, and in other cases they are only differences in emphasis or approach. All traditions in fact are underpinned by a central core of common belief and practice

    ...

    Buddhist commentators have usually construed sexual misconduct to include rape, sexual harassment, molestation of children, and unfaithfulness to one's spouse. Clearly, these manifestations of sexual misconduct can apply equally to homosexual and heterosexual behaviour.

    the Dalai Lama is not the "Pope of Buddhism". his opinions on sexual proscriptions are not particularly representative of Buddhism in general.

    nagano • Since Nov 2006 • 645 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov,

    Sounds like Buddhism and Catholicism have population increase as a common goal..

    and yet 350 million Buddhists vs 1b+ Catholics...

    Buddhism, however, has plenty to say:

    Buddhist sexual proscriptions ban homosexual sexual activity and heterosexual sex through orifices other than the vagina, including masturbation or other sexual activity with the hand. Buddhist proscriptions also forbid sex at certain times - such as during full and half moon days, the daytime, and during a wife's menstrual period or pregnancy - or near shrines or temples. Adultery is considered sexual misconduct, but the hiring of a female prostitute for penile-vaginal sex is not, unless one pays a third party to procure the person.

    Where's this text from? Seems a little a bit of a misrepresentation.

    http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_budd.htm

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov,

    bingo!

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • Rob Hosking,

    I have heard that book described as 'Zen and the Art of getting Soulful Sheilas into the Sack'.

    Something about being seen with it being a good way to project an aura of sensitivity and manly practicality.

    I tried reading it once. (No, not because I wanted to project an aura of etc etc.. well, I don't think so, anyway. After all this time, I'm not sure. If I was, I was deluding myself, but then one's 20s are full of such delusions. God this is getting deep.)

    All I can recall now is something rather turgid and humourless. You know that line from some famous reviewer of some famous book: 'this is not a book which should be cast aside lightly. It should be hurled with great force...'

    Reader, I hurled.

    South Roseneath • Since Nov 2006 • 830 posts Report Reply

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