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Speaker: Why Auckland, and New Zealand, needs the city rail link

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  • merc,

    Knowing National and their knife habit, Joyce may well vie for the leadership post election, oh dear.

    Since Dec 2006 • 2471 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Sacha,

    the Central Station in Courtenay Place
    is that why that street is so wide?

    I think Courtenay Place used to be Tram and Trolley Bus terminus / transfer area, but judging by this live streaming cam they have got rid of the bus stops in the middle of the road that used to be there when I worked in Blair Street in the '80s and when visiting earlier...

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7889 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to merc,

    Nah, minister of finance next. PM next election.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19688 posts Report Reply

  • merc, in reply to Sacha,

    Oh dear God, Joyce is the poster child for better school lunches.

    Since Dec 2006 • 2471 posts Report Reply

  • Angus Robertson,

    All New Zealand needs Auckland functioning as well as possible, source of 36% of our GDP, so this is truly a project of National Significance.

    The flip side of this is pretty obvious we are a city, 31% of the population, of National Significance. If we want to put in a subway we can do it and we can pay and we do not need central government.

    Auckland • Since May 2007 • 984 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Sacha,

    I believe the Greens (and many public transport advocates) were pushing this before the Council very gratifyingly and publicly hopped on the bandwagon.

    The Auckland Council endorsed the route almost as soon as it was constituted: how’s that bandwagon-jumping? ARTA announced it had a developed a provisional route back in March 2008. Both Banks and Brown supported it in last year’s mayoral election – and both actually voiced support for it before the Greens launched their excellent fast-track campaign in July last year.

    Certainly before Labour agreed to support it. And ‘generous’ is a contrast with some of the attitudes expressed in the other direction, which we don’t need to revisit here. It was great to see the parties working together contructively at that Britomart launch event last year, alongside Heart of the City and other organisations.

    Yes. I just don’t see the point in phrasing it as some sort of policy-pinching. People have been trying to get this thing done since the 1920s.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22756 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Nowhere near it.

    Well, I have to admit to being a little disingenuous there ;-)
    BUT...
    I think you will find that the total cost of Brittomart, including the undergrounding of the rail on Customs St, exceeded that total by quite a margin and that was in 2001 dollars and didn't include the cost of borrowing by Auckland City Council.
    I'm guessing here but I would imagine that the cost of the City Loop has been deliberately inflated to lower the BCR. Bloody Joyce.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Russell Brown,

    I just don’t see the point in phrasing it as some sort of policy-pinching. People have been trying to get this thing done since the 1920s.

    I agree.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19688 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Angus Robertson,

    If we want to put in a subway we can do it and we can pay and we do not need central government.

    If only that were true. Govt holds more than just the purse strings.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19688 posts Report Reply

  • Gabor Toth, in reply to Sacha,

    ...the Central Station in Courtenay Place

    is that why that street is so wide?

    Almost - but not quite. The City Council bought up all the land on the northern side of Courtenay Place and demolished all the buildings on it around the turn of last century. This enabled them to widen the street and turn Courtenay Place into a public transport hub to coincide with the electrification of the trams in 1904 and the gradual extension of the tramlines out to the suburbs (particularly with the completion of the Hataitai tram tunnel in 1907). The number of tram lines running through the city meant that any thoughts of running (steam) trains into the city were soon discarded (electric passenger rail units did not arrive until 1938).

    Wellington • Since Dec 2006 • 136 posts Report Reply

  • Ross Mason,

    Homai to the Airport through Blockhouse Bay, Glen Eden toHenderson. Kumeu to Albany, Glenfield, Birkenhead and bridge or tunnel to Britomart. Next loop from Panmure to Botany Downs, Flatbush to Homai. But first get the direct link from the airport, through Onehunga to Britomart. Gosh. That would mean you could catch the train from anywhere south to the airport as well.

    Now you have a decent network. Finishing the City Link is just touching on the biggie. It will improve things but it should merely be the start.

    Upper Hutt • Since Jun 2007 • 1588 posts Report Reply

  • Angus Robertson, in reply to Sacha,

    If only that were true. Govt holds more than just the purse strings.

    But they only care about the purse strings. If Auckland wants a rail loop and is willing to pay for it, no central government will get in the way.

    Auckland • Since May 2007 • 984 posts Report Reply

  • Patrick Reynolds, in reply to Russell Brown,

    There is something very insincere and cynical about Nikki Kaye's 'support' for this project. It's like she has a free pass to muddy the waters, the Nats know the people want this but not only are not going to help fund it have done nothing but work hard to make it appear less affordable and not as necessary as it is. She also repeats Joyce's lies about how much they have/are funding rail in AK and the rest of the country. Virtually all of the numbers they quote were either sums voted under the previous gov [who should have done more] or are loans... meanwhile they push more fantasy math around their ongoing and impoverishing motorway orgy. Remember Nikki was allowed to go offline about mining too, this is where they learnt the usefulness of this idea. No chance she'll achieve anything meaningful, but fall perfectly into line behind the big boys when it comes to supporting their insane, imbalanced and petrol eating transport policy: 'Show me the money, Nikki'.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2010 • 40 posts Report Reply

  • Patrick Reynolds, in reply to Angus Robertson,

    Angus, I just don't just want something in particular, I want a rational, balanced, and transformative transport investment programme with our money.

    Do you mean because the Link is in one place the people around it should pay for it directly? Well every single road is only ever in one place too, so AK should pay for Southland's roads AND AK's roads and rail too? 2 billion+ is spent a year BY US on transport infrastructure all I'm suggesting is the completely reasonable thought that some of it goes on this, but also that a more balanced process is used that isn't based on crazy MOT and NZTA models designed to favour the current ministers whims and prejudices. And friends.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2010 • 40 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen, in reply to Sacha,

    the project needs to be sold way more compellingly

    Oh good just what we need a marketing team.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4451 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace,

    Central government transport policy currently seems to be developed from the point of view of a private car driver, as the default position. But the default position should be that of a non driver. Only a proportion of adults have access to private cars and probably a greater number of people are too young to drive, or choose not to, can't afford to, or are unable to. Some disabled people, for example, will be dependent on public transport all their lives. The non driving population will become an even bigger proportion of the population over time, so it seems crazy not to plan for the needs of the majority.

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3203 posts Report Reply

  • izogi, in reply to Gabor Toth,

    This enabled them to widen the street and turn Courtenay Place into a public transport hub to coincide with the electrification of the trams in 1904 and the gradual extension of the tramlines out to the suburbs (particularly with the completion of the Hataitai tram tunnel in 1907).

    Tram infrastructure left quite an imprint over much of Wellington. The main reason for the wide, winding shallow-gradient roads up towards Brooklyn and Karori is that they were the steepest gradient fully-loaded trams could get up, and that was using the special trams built with the lower gear ratios, or whatever the equivalent is for electric engines.

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 1139 posts Report Reply

  • James Butler, in reply to Hilary Stace,

    Central government transport policy currently seems to be developed from the point of view of a private car driver

    And the commercial truck driver, don't forget them. The trucking sector is by far the biggest beneficiary of the RONS program.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2009 • 856 posts Report Reply

  • merc,

    Apparently, according to Mr Joyce the city of the future runs on even bigger trucks than we have now.

    Since Dec 2006 • 2471 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to James Butler,

    And the commercial truck driver, don't forget them. The trucking sector is by far the biggest beneficiary of the RONS program.

    And Big Cycling too, they're all road users who won't get a damned thing out of a rail loop, but could cut those Kaitai-Invercargill trips down with the cycleway of National Party significance.

    The stupid thing is that good rail is really, really good for cars and trucks, because it takes lots of private vehicles off the road. It's a really cost effective way of keeping our road infrastructure efficient. If only the petrol heads could grasp this, they'd realize they get a lot of bang for rail buck.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10641 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to Angus Robertson,

    Even when money isn't a factor, the message from central Govt to Auckland is clear: roads are for your own good, so be good Aucklanders and toe the line.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5420 posts Report Reply

  • merc,

    Ports and ferries are tied into this as well, and waterfronts and digital cables, and airports...how the Nats don't see the connections and the need for an aligned environmental policy is just gobsmacking.

    Since Dec 2006 • 2471 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    just what we need a marketing team

    competent campaigning has become such a novelty

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19688 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    I confess, it's taken me too long to realise what a sweet way into town the Western Line is from Pt Chev. Baldwin Ave is a 5 min drive from where I am, and a fairly safe place to leave the car if I'm in for a big one.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22756 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Hilary Stace,

    Central government transport policy currently seems to be developed from the point of view of a private car driver

    A driver from Albany, at that. Who liked playing with toy trucks as a boy, perhaps.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19688 posts Report Reply

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