Speaker: TPPA: It's Extreme
72 Responses
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Yes, it's a copyright thread
Not if we talk about patent law.
Some of the patent law provisions are potentially concerning (or good, depending on your viewpoint), because they will extend the scope of what is patentable to include things that currently are not patentable in NZ - e.g. methods of medical treatment of humans.
These matters should be debated in public.
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Finally a thread you can get your teeth into ScottY!
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Everyone else is too scared :)
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Finally a thread you can get your teeth into ScottY!
Everyone else is too scared :)
Me too, actually.
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The problem is most Kiwis have no idea what any of this means....and their eyes glaze over when you try to explain it even if they ask.
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OK, copyright and patents are a shambles and the way US corporations are abusing the intended purpose of copyright is predictably insane.
But I do support geographic protection of product descriptors like champagne, stilton, parmesan, cheddar and so on. If you make a cheese, why try to pass it off as something that originated in another country on the other side of the world? Market your own local product name instead. Needless to say, that should apply to international use of New Zealand products, as well. The counter-argument is where do you stop, but there's a difference between growing a grape variety and selling the end product as champagne.
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Rich Lock, in reply to
The patent system is generally OK, although the proposed changes are, as Scott says, concerning.
I agree with you that copyright is a shambles, and I'm also reasonably happy with the geographic protection of product descriptors, for the reasons you've outlined (although cheddar, parmesan and stilton are pretty darn generic. Are they on the list?)
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I would add, however, that I DON'T think copyright is the right mechanism for protecting geographic indicators.
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Would it be stretching geographic protection too far to prevent South American-grown fruit from using the name "Kiwifruit"? :-)
It would be contentious to interpret the name as "Fruit originating from New Zealand, and thus known as 'Kiwi'" rather than "Fruit which looks like a fat flightless bird", but the thought amuses me nonetheless.
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Sacha, in reply to
The problem is most Kiwis have no idea what any of this means....and their eyes glaze over when you try to explain it even if they ask.
True - the various consequences need to be turned into realistic examples that are easy to convey
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Chris Bell, in reply to
Hi Rich, I don’t know whether they’re on the list. I do know that people in those regions would prefer it if no one else could market products using those names.
I hadn’t finished reading the post [see, I hadn't even checked who wrote it!] but wanted to comment on that point before I was sidetracked ;-). I guess you might argue that they _became_ generic for the very reason that those who make ‘real’ Stilton want to protect it. Stilton and Parmesan _shouldn’t_ be generic. The goal should be more about applying manufacturing standards to what you’re able to sell under those names, rather than geographic exclusivity.
I don’t have anything new to add to the debate, but I did work for a couple of years in copyright. Along the line its original, simple purpose was sidelined. Around the world there are people still working in copyright who are doing sensible, worthwhile work to protect and administer creative people’s rights. But the positive aspects have been almost entirely swamped by corporate greed.
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@ScottY - yes, there are major issues with patent changes as well but I wanted to focus on the copyright and TM ones. Pharmac is clearly a target although I heard Susy Frankel of VUW suggest that (as much as it might like to) US is probably not aiming to do away with pharmac altogether but to significantly curtail its buying power by restricting flow of generics. Some of the anti-patent gurus around will be looking at this I'm sure.
@Rick Lock/Chris Bell GIs aren't actually listed and probably will not be in any final treaty. Although, aparently, Chile has some of it's GIs listed in the existing P4 treaty (which TPPA is building on). There is also some wording in the proposed US text suggesting that generic names would be excluded from GI protection. Suspect that the GI clauses are an attempt to end-game the EU which of course wants GIs for everything.
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Rick Shera, in reply to
Agree - which is why those who have concerns need to find examples that resonate with the general public. Parallel import limits clearly fall into that category, as does 3 strikes internet termination.
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I can't be bothered getting angry about this. The New Zealand Labour Party refused to make international agreements a matter for parliament rather than the executive (as they are, ironically, in the United States). There's a chance to soften the worst parts of this, but the die is cast. Cabinet will do what it wants.
My only hope is that we agree to this, in its almost entirely, and that the next government with half a spine pulls us out unilaterally.
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Ah, perhaps I'm not that cynical.
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Would it be stretching geographic protection too far to prevent South American-grown fruit from using the name "Kiwifruit"? :-)
It would be contentious to interpret the name as "Fruit originating from New Zealand, and thus known as 'Kiwi'" rather than "Fruit which looks like a fat flightless bird", but the thought amuses me nonetheless.
Wasn't it called the Chinese Gooseberry for a while (after we ah, liberated a sample from China)?
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When the revolution comes first against the wall is the marketing bozo who named them "kiwifruit" and stole our national identity - living in the US I got fed up with amused Americans wondering why I thought I was a small brown furry fruit, I had to stop referring to myself as a "kiwi"
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Sacha, in reply to
To be fair, that's cos the bloody yanks called them "kiwi" rather than "kiwifruit"
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Kumara Republic, in reply to
Agree - which is why those who have concerns need to find examples that resonate with the general public. Parallel import limits clearly fall into that category, as does 3 strikes internet termination.
I'm brainstorming an idea or 2 right now as I type this.
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Pardon my ignorance, but does anyone know the position on TPP that our domestic polictical parties have adopted?
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Greens – generally and specifically against it
Labour has been pushing the TPPA since it began – they just want it to be more open
ACT seem generally in favour of completely dropping our trousers for the Yanks (jump to Tariffs), although the only mention of the TPPA is in Heather Roy’s diary, where she chides us for not going far enough.
National don’t appear to want to put their trade policy on their website but we can generally guess that they, as the Government of the Day, are in favour of it and Groser’s speech to the US-NZ Partnership Forum in February was almost indecent in the way he lay on his back and threw his legs in the air.
The Maori Party don’t appear to have any policy on trade.
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Matthew Poole, in reply to
Agree - which is why those who have concerns need to find examples that resonate with the general public. Parallel import limits clearly fall into that category, as does 3 strikes internet termination.
I'm brainstorming an idea or 2 right now as I type this.
One I thought of was: That nice, new, totally legit, iPhone that you bought in the US for half the NZ price? Yeah, you'll be sacrificing that to NZ Customs at the border.
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Danielle, in reply to
New Zealanders, of course, never use diminutive nicknames for anything.
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Sacha, in reply to
And Americans are never defensive
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Islander, in reply to
I still prefer ‘Chinese gooseberries’ because
a)it acknowledges country of origin
b)hairiness and, importantly
c)greeness.
“kiwifruit” is a branding stupidity- have HATED the name ever since it was invented by whatsit/whosit ad firm-mind you, "Zespri"TM was far worse (and totally unsuccessful.)
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