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Speaker: Look in the Mirror, New Zealand

23 Responses

  • Steve Curtis,

    Just this week we have a person who was acepted as a refugee in NZ, went back to Iraq to join the miliatry in the fight against ISIS.
    Australia found that Man Houris, the Sydney gunman, was acepted as a refugee, but after he recieved nationality made frequent trips back to iran.
    It seems like the circumstances why they cant return to their own country are a sham, and are used because thats whats needed to become a refugee.
    Im sure there are many more that are genuine in their need and dont abuse the system, but could this be the reason why the numbers mentioned above have fallen. There are larger numbers of those that leave their own countries but can return ?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 314 posts Report Reply

  • Robert Urquhart, in reply to Steve Curtis,

    The many must not be demonised simply because the few become newsworthy.

    Christchurch • Since Mar 2009 • 163 posts Report Reply

  • TracyMac,

    There are larger numbers of those that leave their own countries but can return ?

    No.

    As for the person who left again to fight against ISIS, does he have a family he's left in NZ? Perhaps he left because of the conflict, but has found a way he can help fight back against the reason he left.

    I'm sure most are grateful to find a refuge, but to pretend that many wouldn't prefer to return home to their language and culture, if circumstances changed, is willfully naive.

    Canberra, West Island • Since Nov 2006 • 701 posts Report Reply

  • Howard Edwards, in reply to Steve Curtis,

    If we're going to allow cherry picking, then I choose this guy - unlike your choice, he applied for asylum in NZ, not Australia.

    Albany • Since Apr 2013 • 66 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Curtis, in reply to Howard Edwards,

    he applied for asylum in NZ

    Well he did have a death sentence passed back home, so your point is ? If those who claim asylum and then obtain citizenship, suddenly find their home country isnt persecuting them after all, we can revoke their passport and that allows some one else to come instead.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 314 posts Report Reply

  • Maz,

    How about all the "queue jumpers" who arrived here in the 19th century? It turned out that they never had death sentences hanging over their heads back in the old country after all; they were merely "economic refugees". Your ancestors - Steve Curtis - were probably among them.

    All migration has been in search of a better life - sometimes just of life.

    87th is beyond pathetic, and truly shameful.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2010 • 30 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to Maz,

    Attachment

    How about all the “queue jumpers” who arrived here in the 19th century? It turned out that they never had death sentences hanging over their heads back in the old country after all; they were merely “economic refugees”. Your ancestors – Steve Curtis – were probably among them.

    And it's not just us either.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5429 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Withers,

    Its a tough question. Do you give safe harbour to people who could later introduce into their new country the conflict that displaced them from their own country? Do we allow thousands of people from countries virtually destroyed by corruption and violence to live freely among us? Sure, we can deport them if they do serious wrong....or imprison them for decades if we can't send them anywhere.

    But this is a serious question about immigration generally. How much of other peoples' trouble do we want to import?

    How much is too much? This week saw two huge drugs busts with millions upon millions of dollars worth of meth-amphetamine in the pipeline. The people named appeared to be mostly Chinese speaking, but of Vietnamese extract. Perhaps children of the wave of refugee boat people to Hong Kong in the mid / late 70s?

    Refugees come with baggage and there are consequences. Let's not ignore this fact. It explains much about why we haven't increased our refugee quota for decades. You can't tell the good from the bad. We don't want or need the bad.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2008 • 312 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

    Like, Al Capone was the result of Italian immigration to the US in the 19th Century, not the fact that (alcohol) prohibition created a huge market that could only be met through criminality.

    Suggesting that groups of people are inherently prone to crime is racism. I don't know why Russell tolerates it on his blog when there are plenty of other places to take that sort of thing?

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • Tracey Barnett, in reply to Steve Withers,

    Steve,
    Its so frustrating to hear your perspective. To be honest, it makes such uneducated assumptions. The truth is, statistics show most refugees make exemplary citizens.

    When your home country and everything you knew is gone--when you've found safety at what becomes your only refuge--refugees, especially the children of refugees, are extremely motivated to achieve. Our own Prime Minister is the son of a refugee. Einstein was a refugee...We can both cherry-pick extreme achievers and criminals and neither is the truth. Most refugees that make it to NZ live good lives that enrich us tremendously. Like any Kiwi.

    More importantly, the numbers we are talking about here are tiny--miniscule by any world standards. We're simply talking about what is the right way NZ should contribute on the world stage? Wage war for 65 million in Iraq? Or bring our quota up to where its been stalled for 28 years now--and wage peace instead..

    Auckland • Since May 2011 • 4 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Steve Withers,

    fugees...

    You can’t tell the good from the bad. We don’t want or need the bad.

    Much the same could be said for Kiwis going overseas as well...
    I wonder how grateful Australia is for that refugee from Dannevirke, Joh Bjelke-Petersen ?
    or Mr Asia

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7943 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Curtis,

    Refugee from Dannevirke ? I think some people seem to have a confused view of what a refugee is.
    Unless Johs father, a Danish born Lutheran pastor was facing war, famine or pestilence, or suffered persecution in Waipukurau when the family left in 1913, refugees they were definitely not. Nor when it occurred the other way when Michael Savage left Australia for NZ in 1907.

    By some measures there could 30,000 migrants arriving in NZ this year, probably a lot more than when my ancestors arrived 150 years , _as migrants_
    They certainly werent suffering were they came from.

    Maybe there should be more official refugees- from war and persecution and the tight control kept on the queue jumpers who arrive under their own steam and for various reasons that often dont stack up.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 314 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Steve Curtis,

    Refugee from Dannevirke ? I think some people seem to have a confused view of what a refugee is.

    It was a johke…

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7943 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Curtis,

    Oh , that refugee joke.

    Im sure they are laughing as they swim for their lives

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 314 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to Tracey Barnett,

    Our own Prime Minister is the son of a refugee.

    Personality and politics aside, part of the success of his family’s integration was the state house.

    I agree that our sence of nationhood would be enriched by alowing a larger quoter of refugees. We will be needing to accommodate them in housing. We might want to ramp up the phycological support services.

    Any thoughts?

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4411 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Curtis,

    If you are using John Keys mother Ruth as an example of a refugee to NZ, its not correct as she married a British national in the UK in 1948 and came to NZ when she and her husband were 'assisted migrants'

    The really interesting bit is that John Keys father did go off to Spain in the 1930s, to fight against the fascists in the civil war. Something that now would give him a long prison sentence on his return.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 314 posts Report Reply

  • Tom Semmens,

    Once, (as in pre circa 1965) when you arrived in NZ you were cut off from your homeland. Sea travel was prohibitively expensive, TV and news was parochial. You were here for better or for worse, and news from your previous homeland trickled through. You assimilated, even while keeping some traditions alive. These are the Dutch, Poles, Irish, Brits and assorted Europeans who came here from just before WW2.

    These days, the internet keeps you connected with home, you can call and Skype anytime, and cheap air travel has put your homeland just a few thousand dollars away. That means that it is MUCH easier to not assimilate if you do not wish, and to retain – indeed, reinforce and use as a bulwark – your old countries values. In my observation, the practices, teachings and restriction of Islam actively hinder integration and assimilation, especially when the refugees are from backward countries that lack traditions of democracy, toleration, secularism, and liberalism. As a New Zealander proud of our progressive record on women’s rights and our secular traditions I get mightily pissed off at Islamic migrants coming here and keeping their women in the niqab. These people don’t want to integrate, to become New Zealanders. They just want a safe haven from the shitholes they fled, a safe haven where they seem to want to perpetuate the religious palaver that has contributed to the wars in their homelands. Well, I don’t like religion and since I live here, I want a say on the matter.

    You see to me, it isn’t enough they want to be “exemplary citizens”. They have to want to be New Zealanders as well, or I’m in favour of keeping them out.

    Sevilla, Espana • Since Nov 2006 • 2214 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Steve Curtis,

    <sigh>

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7943 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to Steve Curtis,

    Something that now would give him a long prison sentence on his return.

    Or an all-expenses-paid trip to Guantanamo Bay.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5429 posts Report Reply

  • steve black,

    Every time I hear “prosecute those evil people smugglers” the first thing that pops into my mind is “schindler’s list”. I can’t help it. It just bubbles to the surface.

    There are times and places when moving people across bordera on a clandestine basis seems to have merit. Making it all black and white is an oversimplification.

    sunny mt albert • Since Jan 2007 • 116 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Curtis, in reply to steve black,

    the first thing that pops into my mind is “schindler’s list”

    When I think of Scindlers list , I think of those palestinians who did become refugees from their homeland, and are now not allowed to return. Apparently migrants have taken their places

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 314 posts Report Reply

  • Maz,

    "You see to me, it isn’t enough they want to be “exemplary citizens”. They have to want to be New Zealanders as well, or I’m in favour of keeping them out."

    Meanwhile, 1.7mio Syrians and 300000 Iraqis have fled, and Turkey is hosting most of them…

    And what you mean by being New Zealanders? Do they have to become arch conservative, binge drinkers; rugby lovers who can’t drive, etc etc? Or maybe just good citizens, with their own religion, own world view, who contribute to a real NZ.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2010 • 30 posts Report Reply

  • Katharine Moody, in reply to Tracey Barnett,

    Wage war for 65 million in Iraq? Or bring our quota up to where its been stalled for 28 years now--and wage peace instead..

    I know where my $65m would go:

    https://www.facebook.com/JamalDajani2/photos/a.10150141015580444.403579.166587400443/10154332514935444/?type=1&theater

    Wellington • Since Sep 2014 • 798 posts Report Reply

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