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Speaker: Economics of the Waterview Tunnel

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  • Sofie Bribiesca,

    Yep gut the RMA and gut the Councils

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Gareth Ward,

    Will be interesting to see the analysis of how the proposed RMA changes (projects of national significance etc) will affect the ability to oppose.

    Note to Opposition parties: this could be an effective talking point. "Under our model, you could have been involved like this (and we wouldn't have proposed it anyway). Under National's, they have purposely removed your ability to stop their bulldozers" etc etc...

    Auckland, NZ • Since Mar 2007 • 1727 posts Report Reply

  • Kim Sokolich,

    I can't see that gutting the RMA will have any effect on direct action...

    "Will be interesting to see the analysis of how the proposed RMA changes (projects of national significance etc) will affect the ability to oppose."

    People will still take direct action be it lawful or not.

    Since Oct 2008 • 47 posts Report Reply

  • Gareth Ward,

    I'm talking about legal avenues of consultation though. Direct Action is not a call any major political party should openly make

    Auckland, NZ • Since Mar 2007 • 1727 posts Report Reply

  • Gareth Ward,

    (in this case I mean, given potential "middle NZ" backlash)

    Auckland, NZ • Since Mar 2007 • 1727 posts Report Reply

  • Rich Lock,

    Road protests were a more or less constant background hum in the UK between about 1990 and 2001 (9/11 and all that...), and certainly formed a big part of the prevailing (counter-)culture.

    Hence my comment about increased costs and delays - most if not all of these big projects in the UK had to deal with organised direct action in one form or another.

    Two major examples here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M11_link_road_protest

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twyford_Down

    There was also the Manchester aiport runway protest which made Swampy famous:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swampy

    I don't really know how relevant this sort of thing is within a NZ context. My recollection is that the Twyford Down protest was something of a tipping point in the UK because it exposed a lot of ordinary decent taxpaying citizens who opposed the bypass to the sort of anti-protest tactics that were rountinely depolyed against the 'dirty hippies'. A bit of an eye-opener for a lot of people.

    The benefits of any of them are still debatable, but again, my recollection is that most of these things proved horrendously expensive in the end (even taking out the 'protest' cost), and of fairly marginal benefit.

    But once they're there, it's a bit late.

    Still, as has been mentioned, they haven't got a green light yet.

    back in the mother countr… • Since Feb 2007 • 2728 posts Report Reply

  • Karen White,

    As a Mt Albert resident I am gutted about this decision. & angry angry angry.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 79 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Imagine, Kim, the backyard party where we last met would have resonated with the drone of the nearby motorway.

    Best wishes to you and your neighbours figuring out how to have your say about this. Given the amount of well-resourced spin you'll face, it's important not to come across in ways that are easily dismissed as the bleating of nimbys. Hope your school has some amenable PR experts amongst its parents.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19688 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Williams,

    Just watching parliament now, I can't help but wonder what Phil Goff will be saying to Robertson and Hawkins who've spoiled his criticisms of the government by appearing to endorse the super-city. South Auckland is not well served by these two who're long past their used-by dates.

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2273 posts Report Reply

  • Sam F,

    Might clamber up Mount Albert on the weekend and ponder the shape of things to come.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1609 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Robeson,

    Gee I remember when the truckies had to pay $500 extra a year they pulled the whole country to a stand still over that. Surely a bunch of pissed off Aucklanders can do better?

    how about we take the Arthur Dent option and put some serious non-violent direct action in front of these bulldozers?

    I mean these things which have had extensive consultation and planning right only to be ignored?

    rrrrRevolution!

    Since Feb 2008 • 87 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Key looks so bloody smug at question time ...

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22756 posts Report Reply

  • Sam F,

    I wonder if this bodes anything with respect to the long-threatened second harbour crossing through Point Chevalier...

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1609 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Never happen - tank farm more likely.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19688 posts Report Reply

  • Joshua Arbury,

    Well the Eastern Motorway got buried by public opposition. The Onehunga interchange part of the Manukau Harbour Crossing Project is another that got shot down through public opposition.

    Auckland • Since May 2009 • 237 posts Report Reply

  • Joshua Arbury,

    Just watching parliament now, I can't help but wonder what Phil Goff will be saying to Robertson and Hawkins who've spoiled his criticisms of the government by appearing to endorse the super-city. South Auckland is not well served by these two who're long past their used-by dates.

    All they said was they supported the idea of a Super-City in theory. Twyford has said the same, as has Goff I think. The issue is HOW the super-city will be implemented and exactly what shape it will be implemented in.

    Auckland • Since May 2009 • 237 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen,

    Who benefits from this?

    Seriously, National could have played with numbers and justified either option. As it is they've tried to tell lies about the numbers to justify the surface route.

    The question is why?

    Spending money isn't bad in a recession, it actually does help the economy recover. So from an economic perspective it is probably better for New Zealand to build a more expensive tunnel than to build a cheaper surface route. So National did not make this decision to benefit the economy or benefit New Zealand. So who does it benefit?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4451 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Williams,

    All they said was they supported the idea of a Super-City in theory. Twyford has said the same, as has Goff I think. The issue is HOW the super-city will be implemented and exactly what shape it will be implemented in.

    I haven't seen the articles Key quoted from, so am at a disadvantage (and will confess to a prejudicial view of both men) but what I heard sounded like they'd prejudged matters.

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2273 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Robeson,

    Exactly Bart.

    Rhema were you a candidate for the recent Mt Albert selection for Labour?

    This post is strident, to the point, informed and the type of strong opposition we need from a united left wing in parliament and outside to combat this.

    We can't afford to wait another 3 years, or another 6 years.

    I mean if Colin Espiner is waking up to these guys and calling them on their crap, what does it take for the Greens and the Maori party to realise that they are about as respected by National as Blair was by Bush?

    Russell Norman...grrr.
    douche.

    Since Feb 2008 • 87 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca,

    Key looks so bloody smug at question time ...

    Picture, 1000 words. The only questions that get answered are often only the ones that are asked by their own party.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    I wonder if the Government know how many people in Mt Albert have millitary weapons, oh, that's right, they don't.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • George Darroch,

    I don't really know how relevant this sort of thing is within a NZ context.

    Wellingtonians will remember the Bypass, how it was fought for decades - with a fair amount of direct action in the final years. I helped a few people lock themselves to things. That was a bitter one. Roads activism does occur in NZ, but there's been a broad consensus to build lots of new roads in the last 10 years, and the opposition hasn't been taken up by "middle NZ" (wherever that is).

    WLG • Since Nov 2006 • 2264 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Everyone is too busy working long hours to make up for lack of productivity investment by businesses.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19688 posts Report Reply

  • Gareth Ward,

    Smith has just put the urgent debate re the Waterview Connection off because the decision hasn't been made.

    Auckland, NZ • Since Mar 2007 • 1727 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    Lockwood Smith has just denied an urgent debate on the waterview tunnel decision on the grounds that no decision has yet been made. WTF?

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

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