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Speaker: Economics of the Waterview Tunnel

234 Responses

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  • Steve Barnes,

    Snap

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    how about we take the Arthur Dent option and put some serious non-violent direct action in front of these bulldozers?

    What all go to the pub at the crucial moment? Sweet.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    That will be the thing I linked to earlier - NZTA get to make the decision about which exact route option to pursue.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19688 posts Report Reply

  • Joshua Arbury,

    The urgent debate should happen tomorrow. And that's fair enough - the NZTA choice hasn't been made yet it would be silly to have the debate now.

    Geez I HAVE to be able to watch that....

    Auckland • Since May 2009 • 237 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    I'll bring a towel, Kyle. Just keep yer hands off Trillian.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19688 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    I don't think I've seen a more cynical Govt. At the time they are putting a candidate up for election they shit on the electorate. How does this work? Could it be that they knew they weren't going to win the seat but wanted to know how far they can push the people before they start losing credibility?.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Joshua Arbury,

    More news here: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10571849

    Of note:

    The consent process would be fast tracked and limited to nine months.

    We all know what fast-tracked means - taking away the right to have your voice heard.

    Auckland • Since May 2009 • 237 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca,

    We all know what fast-tracked means -

    And now Key says there will be a special select committee process regards Auckland governance. Process out the window. I knew I would be gagging today.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Joshua Arbury,

    How the heck can you limit it to 9 months. Let's say I want to appeal it to the Enviornment Court - are they going to say "no sorry, the 9 months are up"?

    This definitely sounds like it'll be 'called in'. Which means making your submission straight to the environment court in all likeliness. Great :(

    Auckland • Since May 2009 • 237 posts Report Reply

  • Keith Ng,

    how about we take the Arthur Dent option and put some serious non-violent direct action in front of these bulldozers?

    Will take years for the bulldozers to arrive. In the meantime, protesters might have to settle for running in front of surveyers' levels.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 543 posts Report Reply

  • Christopher Dempsey,

    THE FOLLOWING IS MY PERSONAL OPINION..

    I am angry and upset, more so than I thought I would be. I’m very angry – I want to throw something, hit something.

    I wondered why I was angry; I am angry that the (little) effort I spent on a couple of Saturday mornings planting alongside Oakley Creek Te Auaunga is wasted. I’m angry that yet again, poor residents of Auckland city get stuck with shit, because you know, they don’t count . I’m angry at the loss of parkland which is vitally needed for the health and well being of residents in the area. I’m angry that a man could be so stupid as to let money be the one and only deciding criteria. I’m angry that we live in such a society that permits this to happen. I’m angry that big media is stupid beyond belief.

    I am very angry.

    But I have to do something with that anger. It is no use me being angry, I have to do something about that anger, use it to feed my actions against this monstrous decision. And I will.

    THAT ENDS MY PERSONAL VIEW.

    Parnell / Tamaki-Auckland… • Since Sep 2008 • 659 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca,

    Which means making your submission straight to the environment court in all likeliness. Great :(

    If you can afford it, or if they think your application should get through the front door of the court.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Keith Ng,

    Wellingtonians will remember the Bypass, how it was fought for decades - with a fair amount of direct action in the final years. I helped a few people lock themselves to things. That was a bitter one.

    The difference was that heaps of land in Aro had been designated for ages - which means fewer people, more dilapidated buildings. Big chunks of it were dead long before the final clear-out, and the residents who were left were mostly hippies and students. There weren't enough owner-occupiers, nuclear families... so I guess the problem was that the battle was lost a long time ago, and the final years were pretty futile.

    So the lesson is start early, dig in hard?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 543 posts Report Reply

  • Gareth Ward,

    So if the NZTA goes the $1.4b route, construction costs will be $900m less. It looks like it will be at least 7 years until it's completed?

    Were we really not willing to have an extra $130m a year spent on this?

    Auckland, NZ • Since Mar 2007 • 1727 posts Report Reply

  • Keith Ng,

    I don't think I've seen a more cynical Govt. At the time they are putting a candidate up for election they shit on the electorate. How does this work? Could it be that they knew they weren't going to win the seat but wanted to know how far they can push the people before they start losing credibility?.

    To be fair, actively obliterating their own campaign is cold, but not cynical.

    And I really think that this is all about the future extensions they can put on a surface option, which would be much more difficult with either the tunnels or the cut-and-cover.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 543 posts Report Reply

  • Gareth Ward,

    Re submission cost to the Environment Court, Joshua if you want to put up a solid response I'd be more than willing to donate to Auckland Transport Blog Inc to help make that happen =)

    Auckland, NZ • Since Mar 2007 • 1727 posts Report Reply

  • Joshua Arbury,

    I understand your anger Christopher, there has been some really dodgy costings pulled on this one to get the price down so much.

    NZTA worked for years and yeard to create an "open cut" option cost of $1.456 billion, and now Steven Joyce is saying that "the other two options had varying levels of “undergrounding, either by tunnelling or using cut and cover methods" for less than $1.1 billion construction cost.

    What gives?

    Auckland • Since May 2009 • 237 posts Report Reply

  • George Darroch,

    So the lesson is start early, dig in hard?

    I'll take a leaf from Kevin Rudd here, and say that Australia has taught me one thing: "working families".

    Mt Albert is the home of "working families". The people of Te Aro neither work, nor have families.

    WLG • Since Nov 2006 • 2264 posts Report Reply

  • Joshua Arbury,

    Thanks for the vote of support Gareth. We probably have about a year beforethe re-design is done and all the technical reports thrown away and redone (as they all related to the tunnel option). Then the notice of requirement will be lodged, then we'll see what this "fast-tracking" actually means.

    I don't know if a Notice of Requirement can be 'called in'. Must go check RMA.

    Auckland • Since May 2009 • 237 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Smith has just put the urgent debate re the Waterview Connection off because the decision hasn't been made.

    I think he's been a pretty good Speaker so far, but today he also allowed Key to just plain not answer Goff's question about the costs of creating the super-city. Key instead answered a completely different question. Bah.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22756 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    And I really think that this is all about the future extensions they can put on a surface option, which would be much more difficult with either the tunnels or the cut-and-cover.

    That is why I think we should all be fighting for an eight lane each way mega-tunnel with a two hundred foot statue of Helen Clark at one end and an equally gargantuan effigy of Doug Myer Robinson at the other.
    To arms people, rise up and be counted...................Martha, get me my gun.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Joshua Arbury,

    s141B of the RMA relates to the call-in powers of the Minister with regards to resource consents. But I don't think that applies to Notices of Requirement, which have to go through a local hearings phase.

    Auckland • Since May 2009 • 237 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Williams,

    I'd be interested if Joshua or anyone has done any comparative analysis of the various city tunnels in Sydney (not all of which are tolled) compared with what's proposed in Auckland?

    The Eastern Distributor, from the Sydney CBD to the airport, is partially a tunnel and tolled for northbound traffic only. It runs underneath dense city housing and businesses and cuts the city travel time to eastern suburbs hugely (even congested, it is far quicker than travelling on the terrestrial roads). It is part of a mix of tunnels, terrestrial roads and highways which are themselves a mix of public and PPP funded.

    Sydney traffic is pretty bad and the subject of intense discussions, but it at least includes tunnels that avoid destroying homes and parks.

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2273 posts Report Reply

  • Richard C,

    And I really think that this is all about the future extensions they can put on a surface option, which would be much more difficult with either the tunnels or the cut-and-cover.

    Presumably 'extensions' means 'adding even more lanes'? Great. And that's worked so very well in L.A....

    Waiheke Island • Since Oct 2007 • 27 posts Report Reply

  • Keith Ng,

    Mt Albert is the home of "working families". The people of Te Aro neither work, nor have families.

    Goddamn hippies. Get a haircut!

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 543 posts Report Reply

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